Warship jump range

[skyth]

I've been designing warships in classic traveller, and noticed that most of them are optimized around jump-2. Is this pretty standard for Naval fleets, or do they usually have a higher jump number?

 

[far-trader]

I can't recall or seem to find where it's mentioned but iirc post FF4 the IN Fleet Standards called for J4 and 6G.

EDIT: Tactically, operating a J4 ship at J2 is a good idea. It keeps a reserve of fuel for jumping out, even after taking some fuel hits.

I think specifics would depend on the era (i.e. available TL as a limit) and mission (system defense vs reactionary force, etc.) more than anything.

 

[The Oz]

I cannot recall any specific reference in CT materials to an Imperial Navy official ship specification, but by looking at the ships of Supplement #9, you can surmise a standard of Jump-4, 6-G for most Imperial warships, and especially the more modern ships.

Chrysanthemum DE J-4, 6-G
Fer-de-Lance DE J-4, 6-G
Midu Agashaam DD J-4, 6-G
P.F. Sloan FE J-4, 6-G
Gionetti CL J-5, 5-G
Arakoine CS J-3, 4-G
Ghalalk CA J-4, 5-G
AHL FI or CF J-5, 2-G
Atlantic CR J-4, 5-G
Skimkish LC J-4, 2-G
Wind SC J-3, 6-G
Antiama FC J-4, 2-G
Tigress BB J-4, 6-G
Plankwell BB J-4, 5-G
Kokirrak BB J-4, 6-G
Lurneti CB J-4, 2-G (from SMC)

Looking at this list, we can see that J-3 is the minimum for an Imperial warship, and J-4 is preferred, even if some of these ships aren't carrying enough fuel for J-4 (the Tigress, Kokirrak, and Lurenti). 6-G acceleration is preferred for all combatants, but 5-G is acceptable. Only carrier vessels that don't engage in direct combat have lower acceleration, and even then it's 2-Gs.

 

[sabredog]

I figure on Jump-4 and also have fleet "oilers" accompany squadrons to rapidly refuel when possible. But J-4 is pretty flexible and a good compromise when also considering how much fuel the big ships have to carry.

But I also take into account the ship's mission. A scout-cruiser or even a heavy cruiser needs to maybe jump farther faster than a battleship or carrier, so I give those J-4 but add another J-1 or 2 worth of fuel tankage onboard for extended range. A battleship or carrier is less likely to operate alone so it'll have refueling oilers and such with it anyway and the extra tankage would be a waste.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Ah yes...

I figure on Jump-4 and also have fleet "oilers" accompany squadrons to rapidly refuel when possible. But J-4 is pretty flexible and a good compromise when also considering how much fuel the big ships have to carry.

But I also take into account the ship's mission. A scout-cruiser or even a heavy cruiser needs to maybe jump farther faster than a battleship or carrier, so I give those J-4 but add another J-1 or 2 worth of fuel tankage onboard for extended range. A battleship or carrier is less likely to operate alone so it'll have refueling oilers and such with it anyway and the extra tankage would be a waste.

I too subscribe to this theory. I endorse it highly. SECONDED.

Magnus von Thornwood. ^[VR]​

 

[flykiller]

if a fleet is to have any useful strategic mobility over more than a local cluster then j4 is very necessary. if it is tied down defending a limited local area then j1 may be sufficient.

 

[dccarles]

But I also take into account the ship's mission. A scout-cruiser or even a heavy cruiser needs to maybe jump farther faster than a battleship or carrier, so I give those J-4 but add another J-1 or 2 worth of fuel tankage onboard for extended range. A battleship or carrier is less likely to operate alone so it'll have refueling oilers and such with it anyway and the extra tankage would be a waste.

(Note: I'm using Book 5/Trillion Credit Squadron rules here.)

Different fleets will have different requirements than the Imperial Navy, of course. It's educational to look at different astrographic and political considerations.

Most of the ships I design (for the Islands Cluster) are TL 11-13, not TL 15, and home is rarely more than two jumps away. At TL 11-12, the size of the power plant for a spinal mount-armed ship is huge: 20+% of the ship, and is the dominant factor in the ship's cost (except for some designs with very thick armour.) So every three tons of jump fuel that can be removed from the main hull saves about a ton of power plant and power plant fuel.

The result was an arms race, both qualitative and quantitative. Amondiage started using drop tanks rather than internal fuel tankage for some of its jump fuel, resulting in smaller, leaner ships. So Sansterre had to, too. And so on.

The result is that most warships in my Islands Cluster campaign carry two parsecs' worth of fuel internally, using drop tanks for the remainder of their jump range. (Carrying only one parsec of internal fuel tonnage is a bad idea because losing even a few percent of your fuel in the first round of combat makes disengagement by jump impossible.) The assumption is that in the event of a defeat, the fleet would disengage by jumping directly from the battle line to a rally point either in the system or in deep space one parsec away, which would be be supplied with fuel tenders.

There's a problem, though: the week you spend in jump space and refuelling at the rally point might not be a week you have. New Home has worked this into their strategic deterrence doctrine against surprise attack: their cruisers are capable of Jump-4, and so can reach the homeworld of any likely aggressor in one week. In other words, anyone thinking of taking on New Home needs to either be sure it can rely on its system defenses[1] or leave behind a squadron or three to deal with the inevitable riposte. The theory is "We don't have to beat you. We have to hurt you bad enough that beating us isn't worth the cost."

Add to this the fact that New Home withdrew from the Concordat of Topas (and its restrictions on using nuclear weapons on inhabited planets) when it developed (ground) battlefield nuclear dampers, and the fact that New Home are likely to be poor sports about an attack on their homeworld in any case.

--Devin

[1] System defense strength in the Cluster varies widely, with New Home using about 50% of its naval budget for non-jump-capable warships, while Esperanza (with its massive fleet) and systems with complex political allegiances (Amondiage, Serendip Belt) spending at little as 15%.

 

[skyth]

If jump-4 is required, it would seem battleriders would be king of the starlanes.

 

[flykiller]

it is, and they do loom large on the scene.

(Carrying only one parsec of internal fuel tonnage is a bad idea because losing even a few percent of your fuel in the first round of combat makes disengagement by jump impossible.)

notable point. I don't use hg2, so I always forget.

 

[Vargas]

If jump-4 is required, it would seem battleriders would be king of the starlanes.

The whole "pound for pound a battlerider can defeat a starship of equal tonnage" argument has been around a long time . . .

 

[rancke]

The whole "pound for pound a battlerider can defeat a starship of equal tonnage" argument has been around a long time . . .

Whereas the much more relevant "credit for credit, can a battlerider defeat a starship of equal cost?" argument has not been explored very much.


Hans

 

[aramis]

Whereas the much more relevant "credit for credit, can a battlerider defeat a starship of equal cost?" argument has not been explored very much.


Hans

and is bogus anyway since it needs to be a RidRon vs equivalent cost 'ron

 

[rancke]

and is bogus anyway since it needs to be a RidRon vs equivalent cost 'ron

I don't recognize the terms you use, but I assume you're referring to the fact that a rider squadron needs to include the cost of the carrier(s) in order to be financially comparable to a BatRon. The credit vs. credit discussion is indeed bogus if you don't do that, but who said we shouldn't do it?


Hans

 

[aramis]

I'm just saying the individual ship comparison (which is what you previously posted) is bogus. And why? yes, it's because the rider is not costwise comparable to the ship unless you include the carrier, because it isn't functionally comparable until you do so.

 

[dccarles]

The credit vs. credit discussion is indeed bogus if you don't do that, but who said we shouldn't do it?

It's my belief that battle riders stack up poorly against battleships in High Guard. One Trillion Credit Squadron campaign (which I can't find on the web any more, alas) found that battle riders had a problem disengaging from the line, while battleships could just jump out. And I think they're ultimately more expensive than battleships, too.

That said, I can think of a very good reason for battle riders: politics.

Imagine your average high-tech world in the Spinward Marches. They pay their taxes to the Imperium on time and in full, the primary benefit of which is the Imperial Navy. But the Imperial Navy's stretched and says [1],

EmperersSword: You gyuz shd be payen >>> fer yer own defns.
Rhylanpwnzor: WTF d00d?!? We payz fr yr pl4nkwl BBs bro, get teh cleu
EmperersSword: We can't dfens all wrldz, when Zho in yr system psyking all yr base don't com cryin to us
Rhylanpwnzor: Tell mperer hez an @55h47
EmperersSword: ops just moved 1 flt to coridor hahah
Rhylanpwnzor: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Rhylanpwnzor: U R sick
Rhylanpwnzor: WTF we gonna do?
EmperersSword: Buold ships
Rhylanpwnzor: ships for you to go chase doggies with, no way
EmperersSword: Build SBD
EmperersSword: I mean SdB
Rhylanpwnzor: SDB sux
EmperersSword: build big SDB w mesonz
EmperersSword: is cheep
Rhylanpwnzor: Ya wh@teva
EmperersSword: like 2/3rds cost and >><< teeny
Rhylanpwnzor: Rly?
EmperersSword: Ya rly
Rhylanpwnzor: O K it sux but I need dfens
EmperersSword: K
EmperersSword <private message to StrephThroat>: Rhy sez hel buy big SBDs
EmperersSword <private message to StrephThroat>: SDBs
StrephThroat <private message to EmperersSword>: Awesum
EmperersSword <private message to StrephThroat>: I can has battle tendaz?
StrephThroat <private message to EmperersSword>: Ya theyre cheep need teeny pplant 4 size
EmperersSword <private message to StrephThroat>: LOL we got strat mobil again
EmperersSword <private message to StrephThroat>: An rhy sez yr an assh@t
StrephThroat <private message to EmperersSword>: move fleet 2 cor thatll show rhy do not **** wid us
EmperersSword <private message to StrephThroat>: already did
StrephThroat <private message to EmperersSword>: haha
EmperersSword <private message to StrephThroat>: haha ROTFL

The Imperium gets a full battle rider squadron for the cost of the tender, the planet gets SDBs, and the Emperor gets his lulz.

--Devin


1] It is common knowledge that that Imperial Navy uses LOLspeak as an unbreakable code to foil Zhodani infiltrators.

 

[far-trader]

Lolz!

..........

 

[skyth]

So are there any links to Jump-4 Warships? I have a couple Tender/Rider designs. 2 Tenders and 12 Riders clocks in under 200,000MCr (Or 2 Tenders plus 6 Riders where the tenders can fight also).

I also designed some jump-1 'Riders' that don't have the issue with disengaging, but are still pretty good.

 

[flykiller]

So are there any links to Jump-4 Warships?

do you mean deckplans, or writeups? I have writeups on an entire fleet t.o.e., if you care to compare notes. not ct, my game isn't hg2 but the ships are based on its conventions and translate straight over to it.

 

[skyth]

I meant stats...To test out the cost effectiveness of battleriders vs cruisers

I did a quick write-up of a cruiser to test my battleriders against...Br squadron is 180k MCr, Cruiser is ~175k Mcr

Rider squadron is 2 Constellations and 10 Solars. Cruiser is 5 Griffons

(Stats Below)

 

[skyth]

Ship: Constellation
Class: Constellation
Type: Battle Tender
Architect: Skyth
Tech Level: 15

USP
BT-R7446J3-090909-790J9-0 MCr 51,807.400 100 KTons
Bat Bear E 4 7A 1Y Crew: 726
Bat L 5 AF 1Z TL: 15

Cargo: 3,962.000 Fuel: 16,000.000 EP: 6,000.000 Agility: 4 Shipboard Security Detail: 100 Pulse Lasers
Craft: 5 x 10000T Solar BattleRider
Fuel Treatment: On Board Fuel Purification
Backups: 2 x Model/9fib Computers
Substitutions: Y = 28 Z = 40

Architects Fee: MCr 518.074 Cost in Quantity: MCr 41,445.920


Detailed Description

HULL
100,000.000 tons standard, 1,400,000.000 cubic meters, Dispersed Structure Configuration

CREW
65 Officers, 661 Ratings

ENGINEERING
Jump-4, 4G Manuever, Power plant-6, 6,000.000 EP, Agility 4

AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/9fib Computer
2 Model/9fib Backup Computers

HARDPOINTS
Spinal Mount, 5 100-ton bays, 40 50-ton bays, 450 Hardpoints

ARMAMENT
Meson Gun Spinal Mount (Factor-J), 40 50-ton Missile Bays (Factor-9), 100 Triple Pulse Laser Turrets organised into 10 Batteries (Factor-7), 150 Dual Fusion Gun Turrets organised into 15 Batteries (Factor-9)

DEFENCES
5 100-ton Repulsor Bays (Factor-9), 200 Triple Sandcaster Turrets organised into 20 Batteries (Factor-9), Nuclear Damper (Factor-9)

CRAFT
5 10,000.000 ton Solar BattleRiders (Crew of 0, Cost of MCr 0.000)

FUEL
16,000.000 Tons Fuel (1 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance)
No Fuel Scoops, On Board Fuel Purification Plant

MISCELLANEOUS
400.0 Staterooms, 3,962.000 Tons Cargo

USER DEFINED COMPONENTS
None

COST
MCr 52,325.474 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 518.074), MCr 41,445.920 in Quantity