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General What Makes a Scout, a Scout

I've been think about this because, most ships carrying the 'S' designation also act like couriers. I've only seen one design which allots space for sensor. I'm also aware any ship can be a scout if wartime conditions warrant it. I do use 'S' when I'm patterning a ship after a design that calls itself a scout.

To me, a Scout must have one of the following: a research lab and a sensors to map a planet/solar system. Without one of these items, it just a courier.

What's your thoughts on the matter?
 
I will have a variety in my own setting, though for Classic, I used to think of it as a paramilitary service, though there definitely were some incongruities in the setting. Going back to my own setting, I do have a big exploration ship, and some smaller ones, the bigger can act as a tender for smaller scout ships. I do a vignette of one in Solis People of the Sun on page 7:

“Resnick, you are good to go, this is Galileo control, out.”
“Roger that, Galileo, guidance is internal, Scout Resnick, out.” Pilot
Natalya signed off, before calling up the routines for a burn to the
exclusion zone where they could activate their jump drive, they were the
third Type III Scout that their mother-ship, the scout carrier Galileo
launched today. Deploying the array, the null energy they emitted seemed
to compress spacetime before opening a spherical wormhole where
another space glittered beyond.
“Ready to violate causality, initiating Interstellar Overdrive.” Navigator
Achebe said as a mischievous grin broke across his face, like the sun
coming out from behind a cloud.
“Always with the music.” The answer she gave a thousand times to the
music he played right before jump, she didn’t need to look at his
helmeted face in the red cockpit glare, to know he had a grin going.
Hands moved across the control screens, all systems nominal they read.
“It doth sooth.” His standard reply, as they began they burn that would
push them to the other side. Maybe tonight they would be fin down on a
new world, she thought, under the light of other stars, new eyes to see
the ancient universe, the unknown waiting to be known.
 
"Scout" is not the same as "Explorer". A "Scout" ship is basically a ship used by the IISS.

By LBB2 a Scout vessel has military sensors and fuel refining. Later books says the ubiquitous Type S Scout/Courier is mobilised and used by the Navy in case of war.

To me a "Scout" is a reconnoissance ship, defined by its sensors, can go anywhere-ness (wilderness refuelling, rad shielding, submersible?), and capacity for long independent missions.

Sure the Type S can map star systems and explore unknown space, but also scan for ships or other activity, or just go back-and-forth on a pedestrian courier route. Its best feature is it's price; it's dirt cheap so you can produce it in large numbers and have them everywhere, poking their noses into all sorts of things...
 
The biggest problem with the Type S as a fleet scout is that it can't keep up with the fleet, at least not in the Bk5 OTU Large Ship Universe.
 
Depends on what they're scouting.

Fleet scouts are more likely to be destroyers, possibly light cruisers, or reconnaissance in force, battlecruisers.
 
I’ll just address the CT-era Type S itself and sidestep the whole classification quagmire.


I don’t worry about the lack of lab/sensor explicitly bought and accounted for, because of that bridge.

Alone among all other starships, the Type S has 20% of its hull allocated to bridge. The next one up, the traders, is 10%.

What is all that tonnage going to?

Well logically a lot of it must by definition be about a minimum to jump and larger system controls.

But there is still a lot of bridge tonnage that one would think would be proportionate to the 100 tons.

I figure many tons go to an extra fit of sensors that nicely covers the bonus scout detection range bonus. Price is right if at least 4-5 tons are involved, and arguably more.

I have an idiosyncratic view on sensors as I actually spec out all EM bands plus things like particle and acoustic sensors, and assume all big craft sensors have a full set with planetary range.

They are sized and ranged like LBB8 sensors. This explains the ‘doggo detection’ range. That means even a Free Trader can do a survey, but would be very manual and require skilled people doing it.

The other function I could see that bridge tonnage going to is high automation. All those small starships have a premium on low crewing, in the case of the Type S it’s just a pilot, a few tons of automation goes a long way to freeing up staterooms for mission or couriering personnel.

Finally, the Type S is not what you want for serious surveying. Indispensable for general workhorse missions, disposable/limited risk while taking a look, but if nothing else that low stateroom and cargo capacity just does not support expeditions.

My view is that the scouts would extensively use modified Far Traders for most of their explorer work.
 
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Consider. :unsure:

For the survey branch of the IISS, not every survey is going to be a One And Done™ effort.
There are going to be longitudinal studies of survey targets to produce data for use by Researchers (head nod to the LBB S4 career) that will involve repeat surveys over time.

Likewise for the exploration branch of the IISS, not every exploration is going to be a One And Done™ effort.
After all, in current real world modern astronomy a single detection isn't necessarily a confirmation of a discovery. Additional detection of the phenomenon by other parties/instruments is required to confirm the detection. You need repeat detection of an exoplanet signal to confirm it ... and until you get that repetition it is just a suspected/probable detection, not a confirmation.

So when it comes to natural phenomena (rather than military fleet movements) you're looking at the need to not only explore/survey stuff ONCE ... but repeatedly. The data that the IISS generates in its exploration and survey work will generate research papers/studies/analyses which in turn will prompt new mission tasking by scouts to follow up on previous exploration and survey work in response to requests for More Data ... because the universe doesn't sit still in stasis, unchanging.

Or even just something simpler ... an orbital mapping survey of a planetary body (sounds rather IISS job related, right?).
Would a single survey be adequate for all time?
For my research paper purposes, that's merely one data point ... not all data points for all time.
Seasonal changes and/or eccentric orbits can result in tremendous changes in a planetary environment. LBB DA2 Across The Bright Face features exactly such an environment on Dinom/Lanth with a 1600 year orbital period with an axial tilt of almost 90º with one pole currently pointed at the star (hence the bright face/cold face on the planet) in 1106.

My point being that the "job" of exploration and survey is something that will essentially NEVER END for the IISS, meaning that scouts going to explore and survey stuff "closer up" than interstellar distances are always going to be present. The sheer volume of exploration and survey targets means that you're never going to run out of "stuff to go look at and check out" and consequently you want the cheapest possible starship (so you can build them in a quantity that's useful) that is capable of multi-mission tasking as basically a "runabout" kind of ship. The basic Type-S is the bare bones basic quantity over quality in order to get a preliminary view of phenomena to generate the first pass data gathering in exploration and survey that can then be used to determine where to assign more specialized assets for Researchers focusing in on specific details.
 
Per CT: Sup7-Traders & Gunboats, p.15:
... In some areas, an exploratory cruiser of perhaps 10,000 tons will carry a squadron of ten or more scoutlcouriers. As the cruiser passes through an area, individual scout/couriers will range ahead or to the flanks and perform actual data gathering missions. ...
Note that this is a reasonable operational procedure for a potential Fleet Scout as well when performing recon duties for a fleet.


Per CT: Sup7-Traders & Gunboats, p.16:
... The rear section (13) serves many purposes; on scouts, it carries laboratory and sensor equipment; on couriers, it carries communication equipment and data banks; on detached duty ships, it is cleared out and become a lounge for the crew. ...
 
Grumman LLV
420px-Small_USPS_Truck.jpg

Small, cheap, durable, plentiful.

IMTU, "Scout" specs are 2G and whatever Jump number the mission calls for. There are undoubtedly "combat scouts" with significantly higher acceleration, but they seem to be off-stage in the OTU.

I've noted elsewhere that there's a significant gap in canon IISS capabilities -- the only ships they have that can do J-4 are XBoats (Type S is J-2, Donosevs are J-3, XBoats are J-4), and their only known J-5 ships are the few Azhantis they own.

Finally, the Type S is not what you want for serious surveying. Indispensable for general workhorse missions, disposable/limited risk while taking a look, but if nothing else that low stateroom and cargo capacity just does not support expeditions.

My view is that the scouts would extensively use modified Far Traders for most of their explorer work.
The low stateroom capacity is enough to provide "half-occupancy" for the minimum necessary crew if it's armed (pilot, gunner). Lots of elbow room...

It's fine for very small expeditions ("we need you guys to go check out this odd thing we just heard about"), but for anything beyond that you'll need more manpower and drones -- and a modified A2 would be great in that role. If the "Standard Hull" rule was anything other than a game mechanic to make specific ships cheap enough to be profitable cargo-haulers, the A2 hull would be "standard" as well.
 
I’ll just address the CT-era Type S itself and sidestep the whole classification quagmire.


I don’t worry about the lack of lab/sensor explicitly bought and accounted for, because of that bridge.

Alone among all other starships, the Type S has 20% of its hull allocated to bridge. The next one up, the traders, is 10%.

What is all that tonnage going to?

Well logically a lot of it must by definition be about a minimum to jump and larger system controls.

But there is still a lot of bridge tonnage that one would think would be proportionate to the 100 tons.

I figure many tons go to an extra fit of sensors that nicely covers the bonus scout detection range bonus. Price is right if at least 4-5 tons are involved, and arguably more.
CT book 2 (1981), page 13:
A. The Bridge: all ships must allocate 2% of their tonnage (minimum 20 tons) to basic controls, communications equipment, avionics, scanners, detectors, sensors, and other equipment for proper operation of the ship. The cost for this bridge is MCr 0.5 per 100 tons of ship.

The basic controls do not include the ship's computer, which is installed adjacent to the bridge.

Note that minimum 20 tons part... there is nothing unusual about ANY 100 dton starship having a 20 ton bridge... it is required under the CT Book 2 ship construction rules.

CT Book 5 (1980) says exactly the same thing.

20 tons is simply the absolute minimum volume that can fit all of the sensors, controls, etc required for a starship to navigate and travel in both normal space and jump space.

Note that the bridge size is 20 tons for all starships up to 1,000 dtons - only those larger than 1,000 dtons have a larger bridge.
 
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CT book 2 (1981), page 13:


Note that minimum 20 tons part... there is nothing unusual about ANY 100 dton starship having a 20 ton bridge... it is required under the CT Book 2 ship construction rules.

CT Book 5 (1980) says exactly the same thing.

20 tons is simply the absolute minimum volume that can fit all of the sensors, controls, etc required for a starship to navigate and travel in both normal space and jump space.

Note that the bridge size is 20 tons for all starships up to 1,000 dtons - only those larger than 1,000 dtons have a larger bridge.
I am aware of the RAW, I don’t feel constrained by it particularly since other things like how does that bitty ship get the same detection capacity as much larger ships, how does it get the unrefined fuel capability without a refiner and how does it require so little crewing?

Use the idea or not, your choice.
 
The logical candidate, as far as I can tell under any edition, would have been a two hundred tonne hull, with enough space for a couple of mission specialists and their equipment.

There would have been any number of attempts to build the smallest possible starship, and word of god has two minimum defaults, fifteen tonne jump drive and hundred tonne hull volume. You can't make it smaller (and cheaper), and that doesn't leave much room for anything else.

It's also a question of how many scoutships do you really need for exploration, and wouldn't it be more cost effective to have more capability within a lower number of larger vessels?
 
wouldn't it be more cost effective to have more capability within a lower number of larger vessels?
That's where you get into questions of hi-lo capability mix of quality vs quantity.

If you're limited to only ONE class of ship (in which case, there is no hi-lo mix) then yes, you'll want more quality in lesser quantity so as to have a higher lower bound of capabilities in fewer ships. But if you DO have more than one class of ship (allowing for a hi-lo mix) then you're going to want to have quantity over quality for the low end feeding decision making on the mission tasking of the more capable high end quality assets that are fewer in number.
Type-S is the bare bones basic quantity over quality in order to get a preliminary view of phenomena to generate the first pass data gathering in exploration and survey that can then be used to determine where to assign more specialized assets
By having "more lo" in the hi-lo mix, the IISS is able to "cover more ground space" with their scouting and information gathering ... to the point where the bare bones basic Type-S is so ubiquitous as to not be worthy of note ... meaning no one is interested (by default) in whatever a Scout/Courier is up to when encountered. They're small, they're inoffensive and whatever they're doing is probably routine enough to bore anyone inclined to be nosy. That kind of generic default acceptance is a valuable commodity for the service ... to the point of being "You don't need to see our identification..." {hand waves while using psionics} when it comes to blending into the background and not being worthy of concern or even passing interest.

In other words, high quantity/low quality assets do not "tip the hand" of reconnaissance interest (or focus, if you prefer) like more capable and specialized ships do. That kind of "flying under the radar" through sheer ubiquity like that enables all kinds of mission tasking for preliminary information gathering without necessarily arousing suspicions (at home or abroad).

You don't get that sort of "ho hum, nothing to see here" default reaction from higher quality/more capable starships with more specialized equipment and capabilities onboard that are far fewer in quantity.

Familiarity breeds contempt ... as the saying goes ... and the IISS has built enough Scout/Couriers over the centuries for them to become familiar enough to that their "threat level" when encountered basically equates to contempt (as a threat). That very familiarity=contempt equation then creates a very permissive environment for all kinds of information gathering mission tasking (as I alluded to above) because who is going to want to go to the trouble to keep track of what every Scout/Courier is doing (aside from the IISS itself, of course, and sometimes not even they can be bothered with the admin needed for that). If you've seen one, you've seen them all ... or words to that effect ... and boy howdy are there a LOT of them!

So you want to be thinking in terms of Scout/Courier "goes first" and if they find something interesting, a Lab Ship can be dispatched with specialists for a more detailed follow up. That lets the "lo end" ships fan out and cover more ground space in order to give the "hi end" ships better prioritization on what to investigate.
 
@Spinward Flow , I see your point and it's logical. The same thing can be said of ships of similar design but with different interiors. Just look on the interwebs at how many designs there are for the Scout or the Far Trader. Say that's a sampling of the Imperium in one sector and those people looking out for the unusual or suspicious see hundreds of these ships pass through their area every month. Soon or Later, those officials go, "Meh." and don't ever check the ships because they are so common and routine.

One other thing. I'm trying to draw the standard scout as depicted on the interwebs and I realized that, Scouts are the pickup trucks of the Imperium.
 
@Spinward Flow , I see your point and it's logical.
Bad habit of mine ... I'll stop doing it eventually. 😋
I realized that, Scouts are the pickup trucks of the Imperium.
Basically.
Like I said earlier upthread ... :rolleyes:
you want the cheapest possible starship (so you can build them in a quantity that's useful) that is capable of multi-mission tasking as basically a "runabout" kind of ship.
So ... yeah.
 
I think this is a case of wag the dog.

Also legacy from Classic, since you could easily increase the range to jump factor/three, especially if the premise is that it can be run by one pilot, since interstellar norm technological level is supposedly twelve.

If the idea is a pickup, jump factor/one would be enough.
 
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