• Welcome to the new COTI server. We've moved the Citizens to a new server. Please let us know in the COTI Website issue forum if you find any problems.
  • We, the systems administration staff, apologize for this unexpected outage of the boards. We have resolved the root cause of the problem and there should be no further disruptions.

What meaning is "T" of the patrol cruiser?

The letter probably doesn't mean anything other than a designation...

So they probably used the obvious letters where possible, then gravitated to what was left over.

High Guard designations came later.

Yep, but as for using "obvious" letters...

...slapping type P on the corsair for "Pirate" is just silly*

...would that mean the type J for the seeker is for "Junk" :smirk:

...explain if you can type M for "Liner" and type R for "Merchant", especially as they are reversed from that in Book 2 to Book 5 :D (where at least the type M makes sense as "obvious"...)

And of course istr somewhere it actually says that the letter type designations are not complete, just a sampling if you will, there are more, so that type P means little without the further notation of the ship class at least.

* in MTU it's type P for "Provincial" and the corsair is actually a border trader design that failed but (and partly because) found new uses as a corsair (the notes are around here on CotI somewhere I think...)
 
And under B2 combat, this darlin' brings 16 hardpoints to the fight, which makes her a bit of a handful; thankfully, she tends to run short on Gunnery crew in routine ops...

That's quite a ship, and I'm going to have to puzzle 'round with it. Not kidding about going short on cargo space and gunners, though - all that range, and no operational endurance at all! Though it looks like the fighters can pack more missiles than the ship's magazine can, and they're her striking force anyway.
 
Then again, one could say that the type designation came from the first letter of a Vilani word...

Ok, I am going to run and hide now!
 
Not kidding about going short on cargo space and gunners, though - all that range, and no operational endurance at all! Though it looks like the fighters can pack more missiles than the ship's magazine can, and they're her striking force anyway.

Well, B2 combat is deadly enough that you don't need too much combat endurance. I figure, as a very conservative estimate, that 1 dton of magazine is all of 20 rounds (and remember, in this application, they can be nukes). A B2 Fighter is unlikely to survive a real hairball long enough to expend 29 missiles -- especially with no Loader aboard to help.

(IMB2TU, missiles fly at 6Gs max, but craft that are using Maneuver/Evade must sacrifice 1G to dodging as per Mayday; this makes dogfighting between Fighters "interesting".)

My whole concern with the Type T is that it's small enough to be manageable by a group of PCs who are in turn small enough to be manageable by their Ref, but the hull's just not big enough to suit me for anything more than the above-mentioned "Provincial" duties.

Using the same basic engineering as the Zho Shivva, you can do a little better on payload, if you're willing to work for it:

Code:
600 dton streamlined hull, military

jump-M           65   (jump-4)
manuever-F       11   (2-G)
power-M          37   (level-4)
fuel            280   (4 pscs & 4 wks)
bridge           20
comp 4fib         4   (HG1)
12 states        48   (p, n, 3e, m, 2g, 4l)
20 low           10
3 emer low        3
fire ctrl         2   (2 x 3 laser, plus 2 x 2 missile & 2 x 2 sand, fixed)
hold            120   (cgo/craft/mag/stores/mail/collapse; up to 4 modules)
               ----
                600 dtons, streamlined, military/naval


for the Justicia Deep Rangers... TL12

The Deep Rangers are my Scouts; this is their Callisto-class "Ranger" vessel, with a nod to both the Zhos & the Hivers.

Note how the crew requirements can be kept down by using Solomani-style fixed weapons mounts; the four Loaders are optional personnel, and the Navigator or Medic can double on the bridge as the Gunner to operate them, since they're just ordinance dumpers and not guns.

The design of a good Patrol craft, especially under B2, always comes down to trade-offs in capabilities versus costs; 600 dtons is probably the realistic upper limit. You can squeak some interesting designs into 200 dtons (cf. the broken-but-nifty Solomani Type SF), but at 400 dtons, you're either looking at doing one thing well (build a B2 version of the Fiery as an example exercise), or at doing several different things with some mediocrity -- which is why I often deploy Type Ts in pairs to make sure the job gets done (and so the starship crewed by NPCs can keep an eye on the one crewed by the PCs should the temptation to corsairing grow too tempting).
 
Last edited:
Then again, one could say that the type designation came from the first letter of a Vilani word...

Ok, I am going to run and hide now!

Heh, good one... but it doesn't work for standard Vilani, since it doesn't have T.
 
Yep, but as for using "obvious" letters...

...slapping type P on the corsair for "Pirate" is just silly*

...would that mean the type J for the seeker is for "Junk" :smirk:


I was being facetious as was my original reply in this thread about the shape of the craft.

By and large the approach to Traveller and the game itself is logical and well thought-out, so basically I'm willing to cut them some slack.

The original poster was asking for the logic in it and my two replies were essentially: don't worry about it, if you read between the lines.

By the time High Guard rolls around, the designations are well-defined, maybe not totally agreeable, but well defined.


>
 
I was being facetious as was my original reply in this thread about the shape of the craft.

Ah well, I "got it" in the "shape" post and did grin at the time, but I missed it in the quoted post

Reading between the lines is tough enough when we're dealing with first language posts, many times more difficult when processing a secondary language which is the original poster's position.

I was being (equally I guess) facetious in my reply which I tried to emphasize with the smileys. Guess I missed the mark as well.
 
I was contemplating "patrol" vessels in general, and the Type T in specific, today, trying to understand how it would pursue its "routine" operations.

Aside from search & rescue operations, it is implied that Type Ts undertake a fair amount of piracy and smuggling suppression activities, mostly through boarding & inspection.

Which is the problem. Planetary -- and even subsector -- navies don't have the jurisdiction to casually demand every little Type J vectoring in for a remote GG skim heave to and be boarded; it's called "wilderness refueling" for a reason.

As I say, IMTU, if you can't get verification of an approaching/challenging Type T's ID from a recognizable nearby base, it's perfectly prudent to assume it's really a corsair trying to take you without a space battle. And indeed, out in the "wilderness", a tramp freighter captain has as much right to demand a so-called "patrol cruiser" heave to and allow him to conduct as boarding & inspection as anything in provincial naval livery does of him; i.e., none whatsoever. You wanna catch smugglers? Pay your SPA a decent wage so they're not easily suborned by bribery; don't be messin' with a ship's free navigation. That's tradewar at best, bubba.

No, the only interstellar agency with enough authority to plausibly claim jurisdiction over the entire systemwide Black outside a mainworld's gravity well would be a big, sprawling government such as the 3I.

And hence, we may now deduce what the "T" stands for: The Man.


:D
 
Last edited:
...And hence, we may now deduce what the "T" stands for: The Man.


:D

Another good one :)

And weren't the US Treasury Agents called T-men at one time? So the type T is maybe an Imperial Treasury Agent ship? Treasury Agents being charged with the usual duties. Could this have been the origin? We may never know...
 
Ah well, I "got it" in the "shape" post and did grin at the time, but I missed it in the quoted post

Reading between the lines is tough enough when we're dealing with first language posts, many times more difficult when processing a secondary language which is the original poster's position.

I was being (equally I guess) facetious in my reply which I tried to emphasize with the smileys. Guess I missed the mark as well.

Good we understand each other then :rofl:
 
Works for some


Dan,

Works for me...

... even if, as Rob points out, Vilani doesn't have a "T".

I've often wondered if 57th Century "Vilani" isn't actually a Ganglic-influenced Vilani that someone from the original Ziru Sirka would barely recognise.

I've a soon-to-be 98 year old grandfather who emigrated from Sweden in the late 1920s. He wasn't able to go back and visit until the 50s. His Swedish relatives immediately chided him for speaking "Swinglish"; an unconscious mixture of Swedish and English. Decades later, his younger relatives also remarked he spoke "1920s Swedish"; using the "old" slang and terms from that period.


Have fun,
Bill
 
A Vilani Lesson

I've often wondered if 57th Century "Vilani" isn't actually a Ganglic-influenced Vilani that someone from the original Ziru Sirka would barely recognise.

More likely ZS would just pretend not to understand it.

But you're otherwise right - Vilani underwent some fundamental shifts after the Rule of Man. It adopted an alphabet... and incorporated the Anglic letters into it, including T. And it borrowed some words, like /bar-beku/ 'barbecue'. But not all that much changed in the end.

The irony of it all is that Archaic Vilani, which preceded the Old High Vilani of the Ziru Sirka, had the T, as well as Ch and O. There is at least one surviving Archaic Vilani word in the Vilani lexicon: /khutak/ 'fanatic'.

So I was wrong about Vilani not having a T.
 
Last edited:
How serious is this research into Vilani??

Its news to me.

Is it all, creation... or recreation based on the words made-up by previous Traveller authors?
 
And hence, we may now deduce what the "T" stands for: The Man.

Except of course for those hulls in private/paramilitary service, where I suppose we can presume the "T" stands for Troubleshooter.

(Or, alternatively, Troublemaker... as the case may be...)



:smirk:
 
I have a simple question.
What meaning is "T" of the patrol cruiser's type?:o
Which document should I look for?

I always took it to mean both as a High Guard designation as well as the actual "class" of ship. I figured there were Type-As, Type-Fives, or even Type "insert class designation here", but that they were serving elsewhere, or perhaps obsolete.
 
How serious is this research into Vilani??

Its news to me.

Is it all, creation... or recreation based on the words made-up by previous Traveller authors?

Not very serious. All the hard work was done on the TML in 1998 or so.
 
Back
Top