Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Depends on what recon is supposed to do, since it implies a military application.
CT Only: What One Thing Would You Change About Classic Traveller?
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coliver988
SOC-14 1K
I ran a game where one player wanted to play a barbarian (this was a mix of Classic, Cepheus & Mongoose) so his skill set really did not help much in the game technically. However: his character helped a lot in other ways so we had a good game, even though at a skill comparison level, his stuff rarely came into actual use compared to a couple of the characters who had pretty amazing characters skill-wise.
In the end, it comes down to the play of the game, not really the skills. So in bringing this back to the original question of this thread: I really would not change anything because Classic Traveller is, while not perfect, one of the better games out there: simple (well, other than a potentially Byzantine DM system) and very open ended. Plus, you can DIE in chargen!
(okay, earlier I did say I'd change the combat so that armor is an absorber. I do still stand by that which is why my games are a mix of several versions of Traveller, I just don't use that part of Classic)
In the end, it comes down to the play of the game, not really the skills. So in bringing this back to the original question of this thread: I really would not change anything because Classic Traveller is, while not perfect, one of the better games out there: simple (well, other than a potentially Byzantine DM system) and very open ended. Plus, you can DIE in chargen!
(okay, earlier I did say I'd change the combat so that armor is an absorber. I do still stand by that which is why my games are a mix of several versions of Traveller, I just don't use that part of Classic)
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
An archetypal example of how "it's not what skills you have, it's how you use them" (or words to that effect) can make all the difference in the world when it comes to gameplay. Good Player with mediocre skills on the character sheet will almost always beat out Mediocre Player with good skills on the character sheet. :coffeesip:
The games I wanted to run almost always ran afoul of what players wanted to do. I've tried to be more flexible, but I'm not good at it.
More to the point: the Barbarian seems to me to be, more or less, Earl Dumarest. E. C. Tubb showed us exactly how to place them in sci fi.
And what little description is available in Supplement 4: Citizens of the Imperium, that's about right:
COTI said:
Thinking a little further: as a referee, I'd decide that "even though he's a barbarian, he still lives in Charted Space." That doesn't mean he's tech-capable, but it does imply that he's not simply a Neanderthal dropped into a Flash Gordon world.
Not really. IMO Survival would be the skill tapped into for what could/should be eaten and maybe some low-level practical biome knowledge useful to hunting. Recon is more the checking out of a facility/military position/tracking intelligent beings' movement, which IMTU subsumes the Hunting function.
Come to think of it, Recon should also wrap the Stealth skill into it.
IIRC reccon included the capacity for camouflage too (counter-recon, so to say)...
From LBB4, under Recon skill:
(bold is mine)
OTOH, IMHO Forward Observer skill should include Recon (even if at lowered level, as per the "included -1 skills in MT), as the definition of Recon in LBB4 is
And I understand any Forward Observer needs this...
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coliver988
SOC-14 1K
what we actually ended up doing was he came from a one of a trio of red zone worlds that were at one time, at least in computers, TL 18+ more than a few thousand years ago. They took over, the world had nanomachines and the little interstellar empire basically died. the remaining AIs keep the humans low tech on purpose. So he was the actual key at the end to getting back to the planet & talking with the AIs. But he was still a low-tech barbarian w/out any real useful skills in civilization. I just modified the game to fit the characters from my base game from our session 0.
The worlds were based on a Kickstarter book. Search for journal of interplanetary travels by Michael Murdock. I just liked the art & wanted to explore that world a bit. I cover parts of this in my blog (overview of the system from my blog here)
A Forward Observer is not a scout.
A Forward Observer is someone trained on raining down artillery accurately from afar on forward locations.
They're trained on map reading, positioning, range estimation, placement correction, ammo selection, artillery CEP details based on the gun and ammo, etc. They're also the guys painting the targets with lasers.
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
And according to LBB1 ... everyone has Forward Observer-0 skill by default ...
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Yes they are.
You also receive training in concealment and tactical movemnet so you can not be located.
You missed out concealment and tactical movement...
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
No.
Untrained is -4, you need at least level 1.
Oh ya, replaced Forward Observer with Recon too. That's how most of the CT military careers have it.
As for the camo part, brought in Combat Engineering from LBB4, which includes/replaces Demolitions and in addition to the military position selection/building and expedient civil engineering skill, also gets you the ability to build traps.
I would tend to put camo in that skill set, although this might be one of those crossover skill items, like Recon DM-1 for camo (good with looks, not a specialist in materials).
Similar thing for Electronics (which does sensor ops and comms in addition to control and power routing) when running the sensor console, -1 DM for Navigation/Gunnery for detection/lockon target solution/intel rolls.
I flipped the JoT skill around ... It allows the player, on a successful roll, to find a solution that is covered by NO OTHER SKILL!
I use the example of a party attempting to open a locked door:
(COMPUTER-1): hacks the computer to override the security program.
(ELECTRONICS-1): opens the control panel and manually overrides the control.
(MECHANICAL-1): removes the bolts and disassembles the door.
(ENGINEER-1): uses a special wrench to manually open the automatic door.
(JoT-1): Remembers serving in a damage control crew on a freighter in the Deneb sector and there was this code for Fire Drills ... enters code into COMM System and Red Lights start flashing ... "Now the door is in 'Emergency Mode' and any 'Engineer' can enter his code and open the door, just like a real fire". [JoT PC steps aside to allow the Engineer that failed his Eng-1 roll to enter a code and open the door.]
Jot becomes a sort of MacGyverism for the player to invent a "non-skill" solution.
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
Book 1 says "The individual has been trained (in military service) to call on and adjust artillery (projectile, missile, and laser) fire from distant batteries and from ships in orbit."
Even in the expanded detail (that highlights the -4 aspect) doesn't mention anything about stealth or scouting.
Book 4 says this about Recon: "The individual is skilled in military scouting." (Funny note, the actual OCR from the PDF for "scouting" was "smuting".) The detail goes on about not being seen and estimating troop strengths.
So, here we have two, distinct skill sets.
Are there scout/recon folks adept at being an FO? I'm sure there are. But there are a lot of scenarios for everyday front line Joes needing to direct fire, without any of the whole stealth and scouting bit. They're at the front, dug in, hiding behind a tree, having "6" get on the horn to "Mustang Base" and send in the artillery or even airstrikes on the ridge in front of them. I mean, isn't this pretty much the SOP of what infantry was doing in Vietnam? Find the enemy, hold them where they were, and bring on the FFE.
You can have a recon/sniper. Expert at infiltration, camouflage, and long range shooting. But direct and adjust indirect fire? Perhaps not.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Sorry I am not explaining myself - here in the real world forward observers are trained extensively in camo and concealment and tactical movement in most armed forces of the world.
You can chalk me up as another who allows for 'recon' to be rolled into fwd obs to avoid skill bloat.
I allow overlap - so skills like hunting and survival find their way into CT LBB1 skills where it makes sense to do so.
You can chalk me up as another who allows for 'recon' to be rolled into fwd obs to avoid skill bloat.
I allow overlap - so skills like hunting and survival find their way into CT LBB1 skills where it makes sense to do so.
I'm assuming that's what is happening with the roll and in addition the Jack skill measures how many of these MacGyvers the character has to try. Hence my reference to MacGyver above.
It's just too powerful to render as anything above skill-0 for everything. Unless you are deliberately running that kind of story/universe.
For instance, Heinlein was quite taken with the idea that you aren't fully human unless you can do higher math AND fix a car AND pilot a starship AND do emergency medical procedures. If you are doing Heinlein Universe, it makes sense in that milieu to have some characters that really can do it all.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Heinlein fits the Mary Sue creator stereotype; at least he's open with it, or is very self unaware.
I think the point of being masterlessly jacked is that the character can attempt an action with minimum penalty, if he doesn't have the exact requisite skill to perform it.
I think the point of being masterlessly jacked is that the character can attempt an action with minimum penalty, if he doesn't have the exact requisite skill to perform it.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Brainwave - JoT skill means you have a wafer jack implant... 
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