BackworldTraveller
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What was it that the Magics of Earthsea needed...understand the consequences of you magics before enacting them!
What Was The Catastrophic Event That Caused The EW?
- Thread starter Jeff M. Hopper
- Start date
rlmercad069
SOC-12
Chit Botshti sector, all those worlds with failed colonies and/or moved populations. The toys the wave has left behind for the taking... I mean study.
The point is that it's psionics in a post-3I culture, rather than psionics in a Zhodani culture. The former might be easier for players and referees to understand. If you wanted the latter, you could simply set a campaign inside the Consulate and save all the ensuing untidiness.The hilarity being that with psionics becoming "normalized in society" what you wind up with is theThird/Fourth ImperiumRepublic of Regina turning into the new (and improved? better?) Zhodani Consulate.
After all, if you can't beat them ... just flatten them arbitrarily, then become them?
If so, why didn't the Zhodani avoid the wave by overjumping it as it came?
Of course, not all population might be so evacuated and moved (except maybe on small colonies), but I guess a good bunch of nobles and intendants could in most colonies, and return when it has passed (I guess it doesn't last for long, if it's moving at C speed or even faster) to rebuild...
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mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
How do you move a billion people or more, where do you put them?
When the wave hit the Zhodani (IY 1040ish) It would have been a curiosity. A few nobles dropping dead or going crazy, while more proles test well for psionics (a good thing). The apparatus of the Zhodani state could deal with this and they likely put in place protocols to deal with it until a solution to the wave could be found.
Proles are not in any danger from the wave, so you don't move them, you only move the Nobles and Intendents.
How long do they stay away, how long until they return? What do they return to?
The last one is the easy. They return to worlds where some of the proles now have advanced psionic capability, many of the proles are suffering from mental health problems with no Tavrchedl' to care for them. During the first decade this is likely not a problem.
But, over time more of the proles are gaining psionic powers, and many are not a fan of the evacuation of only Nobles and Intendents. Social unrest of a sort the Zhodani haven't had to deal with. As the wave passes more and more Zhodani worlds have massive increases in mental illness.
The event of 1119, a prole mutiny takes control of warships. For the first time there is the potential for an actual shooting war between the fractions, but the Zhodani navy is more than capable of destroying a few rogue ships once ordered to do so.
When the wave hit the Zhodani (IY 1040ish) It would have been a curiosity. A few nobles dropping dead or going crazy, while more proles test well for psionics (a good thing). The apparatus of the Zhodani state could deal with this and they likely put in place protocols to deal with it until a solution to the wave could be found.
Proles are not in any danger from the wave, so you don't move them, you only move the Nobles and Intendents.
How long do they stay away, how long until they return? What do they return to?
The last one is the easy. They return to worlds where some of the proles now have advanced psionic capability, many of the proles are suffering from mental health problems with no Tavrchedl' to care for them. During the first decade this is likely not a problem.
But, over time more of the proles are gaining psionic powers, and many are not a fan of the evacuation of only Nobles and Intendents. Social unrest of a sort the Zhodani haven't had to deal with. As the wave passes more and more Zhodani worlds have massive increases in mental illness.
The event of 1119, a prole mutiny takes control of warships. For the first time there is the potential for an actual shooting war between the fractions, but the Zhodani navy is more than capable of destroying a few rogue ships once ordered to do so.
Jeff M. Hopper
SOC-14 1K
Would there be prole-controlled heavy ships though? Zhodani society makes the proles beholden to the authority of the intendents and nobles. If the proles rebel against them, the strategic placement of a few psionic switches make a heavy warship useless to proles.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
These proles are psionic now remember
Besides proles can become officers, but only if exceptional and/or lucky
I may actually have found a Zhodani campaign worth running...
Besides proles can become officers, but only if exceptional and/or lucky
I may actually have found a Zhodani campaign worth running...
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Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
Just because you suddenly "got psionic powers (that you didn't have before) LAST WEEK" hardly makes you a "master" in the use of them THIS WEEK.These proles are psionic now remember
You seem to be skipping over a lot of training and familiarization that needs to happen between Step 1 and Step 3 here ...
After all ...
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Who said anything about last week?
You seem to be missing the bit where the proles have had decades to learn about their new abilities.
The proles 'behind the wave' have been developing psionic abilities since 1040ish. By the 1119 "event" they have had decades to learn and organise.
You seem to be missing the bit where the proles have had decades to learn about their new abilities.
The proles 'behind the wave' have been developing psionic abilities since 1040ish. By the 1119 "event" they have had decades to learn and organise.
Not the billion, but some millions sould not be so difficult (more are moved for wars), and only the nobles and intendants should be so moved. Of course when they return they will have to work hard, but they could have kept their society (even with more psionics)
How long takes for the wave to pass by? In the meanwhile, as they have jumped to its wake, they can be helping systems where it has already passed...
If information is so carefully handled as some believe for the Zhodani, Proles would be told the Nobles/Intendants are moved to help in relief (not entirely a lie, just a half truth). If they are more open with information, truth may be told (after all, Zhodani are a disciplined society), and most Proles would accept the need to save the Nobles/Intendants, and the fact they are the most affected.
Situation could be seen as not so different than (not intending to enter in polemics about this, at least outside the Pit) priorizing the most vulnerable or critical workers for vaccination in a pandemic while vaccines are scarce (sounds familiar?)...
Sure, the Zhodani have little experience with social unrest, but are masters on mental health...
And the Proles are quite less. at danger from the wave than Nobles and Intendants. Even low Psi Nobles and intendants (there exist, if they are so by inheritance) can be left behid to try to keep things as best as they can in the meanwhile...
And for the little I know about the Wave (I've never been a fan of TNE, in fact I was among the pitchforks and torches mob when it appeared), it only affects while passing, so the main problem would be precisely on the first years (not even decades), as, after that, as PSR is not inheritated (or so explicitly said any reference about Zhodani society in CT/MT), thing would revert to normal after a generation or two, new psionics replacing those lost to the Wave...
Enough of them to really challenge the Consulate?
See that if the ships are used to evacuate Nobles/intendants, they are likely to outnumber the Proles on those ships, and sure they have the way to scuttle the larger ones before allowing them to be taken. And yes, I know I've been for long time defender of war conventions making scuttling rare, but war conventions don't use to apply in this situations of facing extintion (as a society, not necessarly as a specie).
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Besides proles can become officers, but only if exceptional and/or lucky
No need to be so exceptional and/or lucky, as I understand Zhodani society...
Acording CT:AM4, High Guard CharGen, Proles may be sent to Officer Training as much as in the IN, so the only difference on it is the lack of Naval Accademy/College NOTC (Nobles/Intendants being their equivalent, except for Medical Branch, as Zhodani also have the Medical School that makes the graduate an Officer)
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Charm spell.
But since they have a lot of experience with robots, use those as security failsafes.
But since they have a lot of experience with robots, use those as security failsafes.
Jeff M. Hopper
SOC-14 1K
I'm still iffy on heavy ships (like ones with spinal mounts or Jump-5 capability) being under the control of proles. The Nobles and Intendents believe in their psionic superiority enough that it is a cornerstone of their society, thus I can see ships up to 10,000 tons be crewed by proles with a handful of Intendents in command positions - but not larger ships.
Jeff M. Hopper
SOC-14 1K
Just because you suddenly "got psionic powers (that you didn't have before) LAST WEEK" hardly makes you a "master" in the use of them THIS WEEK.
You seem to be skipping over a lot of training and familiarization that needs to happen between Step 1 and Step 3 here ...
After all ...
It is even worse than that because whatever command structure is left (civilian and military) has to train a bunch of newly psi-capable proles (and deal with the sudden change of social status that this creates), but they also must deal with those Intendents and Nobles who have gone insane.
Counterpoint: That would make sense if nobles felt that proles in such positions cannot be trusted - but they know for a fact that they can be trusted. They also know that any prole in such a position is a highly exceptional individual who has been double-, triple-, quadruple-checked for their suitability for that position, and that having them in that position is a benefit to the Consulate.
IMHO, the main reason for proles only rarely make officer material is less that nobles consciously want to keep them out of such positions, but that on the contrary, proles are so naturally habituated to the social order that they mostly are not able to assume a position of authority over their nominal social betters.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Muggle borns.
You coopt them into the hierarchy.
You coopt them into the hierarchy.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Proles can rise to the rank of Admiral so why not? If the prole in question happens to be a military genius the Zhodani social system would recognize this. technically a prole could even join the Guards and get to the rank of general, but they would have to be incredibly talented.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
That's assuming the newly psionic proles want to join the Intendent class - they may seek to establish their own society, especially if there are not enough Tavrchedl' to care for them. And some of those insane Nobles and Intendents really are possessed by supraspace meta-interlligences.
rlmercad069
SOC-12
All proles are tested for psionic abilities and only those with sufficient talent are trained. What happens to the ones that have abilities but no talent or have much talent and no abilities. Once I had a character have a natural 12 in PSI power but poor me failed all the rolls to get any ability. He was trained in the disciplines of the mind so the power levels didn't go down due to age but did go up due to all the mind reaming that was done in game. With that said when the wave passes, the remaining Nobles and Intendents the didn't leave, die or go insane could train the new awakened but even if there were no one left to do the training the information is still in the data bases and books. The proles could then just teach themselves.Just because you suddenly "got psionic powers (that you didn't have before) LAST WEEK" hardly makes you a "master" in the use of them THIS WEEK.
Most robots are mainly directed through psionic switches, so I guess the main robot operators are intendants/Nobles...
I agree with Mike here. Nobles are automatically Officers, and Intendants Warrant Officers, so it's to be expected most of the crew (the Enlisted Rnks) are Proles.
Even so, if those ships are jumping to avoid the Wave, neither the Proles would be affected by it, so they are unlikely to try to take the ships. I guess those ships taken by proles did not avoid the Wave, whatever the reason...
Proles (and Nobles and Intendants, for what's worth) are used to a very stable society, rarely knowing about alternatives. So, IMHO it's unlikely they prefer to test a new one...
And if enough Nobles and Intendants (mostly the most Psionic capable) have been loaded in ships to avoid the Wave, there will not be this shortage of Tavrchedl', nor too many insane Nobles/ Intendants to deal with.
As for what Marc told in the Moot forum, the effect is PSR dependent, so the low PSR Nobles/Intendants are less likely to be affected, as are Proles as their age increases. Assuming so, the ones gaining Psionic powers are likely to be from the younger strata of the society (remember, the Proles start with PSR 8-, as anyone with higer PSR would be an Intendant, and begin reducing it once 18 years are reached, as anyone untrained), so probably the more easily to just be upgraded to Intendants
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