What Was The Catastrophic Event That Caused The EW?
- Thread starter Jeff M. Hopper
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GypsyComet
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The newer, faster Wave is farther along in 1248, most of the way through the top row of subsectors in Gush/Dag/Core instead of the halfway point of Vland/Lishun. Snapshots from Traveller Map sometimes pick up the Wave, and sometimes don't, but here's the region for reference.
Between the Black War and Virus, then some targeted violence during two wars, the pictured region is already pretty mangled. The Wave will cause a few more backwaters to either flee or depopulate, depending on whether they know its coming. The big worlds will be dealing with the aftermath, akin to the Black Death on Earth: lots of sudden deaths and more long-term disability. But compared to Virus and war, the effects on the ability of the states to survive is minor. They will fade, according to Marc about what follows, as there will just not be enough people to keep up big empires, or need them, but short term the 1248 maps can still be valid. For play, that's the important thing.
Between the Black War and Virus, then some targeted violence during two wars, the pictured region is already pretty mangled. The Wave will cause a few more backwaters to either flee or depopulate, depending on whether they know its coming. The big worlds will be dealing with the aftermath, akin to the Black Death on Earth: lots of sudden deaths and more long-term disability. But compared to Virus and war, the effects on the ability of the states to survive is minor. They will fade, according to Marc about what follows, as there will just not be enough people to keep up big empires, or need them, but short term the 1248 maps can still be valid. For play, that's the important thing.
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I recall reading somewhere that a way to determine EW effects was to just use the mechanics form Hard Times twice: one to reflect the effects of the Birus and a second time to determine the effects of the EW.
We used this process for a Pocket Empires game we’re running that’s set in the aftermath of the Wave.
We used this process for a Pocket Empires game we’re running that’s set in the aftermath of the Wave.
I don't see it.
You'd still have:
a.) The Hive Federation. IMHO, after the demise of the Imperium, the strongest faction without the reset button.
b.) The K'Kree.
c.) The Solomani.
d.) The Aslan. Not an empire per se, since they don't represent a unified policy, but still a force to be reckoned with.
daryen
SOC-14 1K
You're forgetting the truly dangerous one: the Vargr. They are highly advanced, totally decentralized, and extremely adaptable. Plus, they've already been stomped. Honestly, I'd expect non-trivial factions of them to be back up to speed before the EW makes it all the way across the Spinward Marches.
And I still think the Darrians, especially those on Jacent and the secret military base, the be able to use jump, colony ships, and mass cold sleep to escape relatively unscathed. Entrope (especially), Zamine, Darrian, and Mire would have issues, but the latter two should be able to get a significant portion of their population through so they could quickly rebuild.
And I still think the Darrians, especially those on Jacent and the secret military base, the be able to use jump, colony ships, and mass cold sleep to escape relatively unscathed. Entrope (especially), Zamine, Darrian, and Mire would have issues, but the latter two should be able to get a significant portion of their population through so they could quickly rebuild.
Sorry to hear that it caused you that much grief.
But our understanding of technical options that far in the future, in a place where they have gravitic technology and FTL no less, shouldn't we also possibly accept that we think of some concepts using imagery and things that we have now, and so what's described as a virus is using an acronystic term for something rather more advanced?
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mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
If wafer technology can overwrite a personality I don't see how Virus is such a stretch 
Maybe.
I guess it's just a situation where if you know a certain amount about something, it's hard to keep your suspension of disbelief. Nobody has good clues on gravitics, so it's easier to say "ok, I'll buy that"
I looked at the book that had more info about the Collapse (forget the title)
Loved a lot of it, but it went into more detail on how transponders worked and the path of infection...
And it just didn't make sense. Maybe part of it is that many of the paths that are cutting edge for getting into a system then are passe now.
The issue is the content of the message and the medium is sent over.
Example: ever hear a few bars of a song and the tune gets in your head? You find yourself whistling it, or humming? It's one thing if you and I were on the phone and you heard it in the background on my end. But me trying to get a song in your head over text? That's a lot less likely
Worse, messaging between systems like a transponder would be a very specific format. Tricking the destination system into treating that as an executable is a huge hurdle. I have trouble believing that the stupid mistakes programmers make (buffer overrun vulnerabilities for example) are still being made with code that's being written that far from now... Or that if they were, transponder code that's been in use for 500 years still hasn't been patched to where the vulnerability is gone.
So, my private version of it is something a little different: Virus is not the result of accidental transmission. Virus is a deliberately built Berserker, designed to push the Black War when humans refused to nuke civilians. It doesn't spread by transponder, but it is installed deliberately. At first a patch sent through by Dulinor's IN, and installed by technicians following orders.
And then the AI "went paperclip". The order to destroy things Dulinor didn't control spread to include things he might possibly not control in the future
Also if x is bad, and then another bad thing x: x+x=2x so the logic would say it is twice as bad. Personally I like the rule of 3 in that say sci-fi can have three things that are "off" because it keeps it grounded a bit, one usually has some idea of what they are dealing with.
Hindsight being 20-20 I'd have stopped at Hard Times, maybe have some cyborg weirdness in Lucan's Imperium or something, except true to real life, usually it is the military that decides revolutions, and civil wars.
daryen
SOC-14 1K
I hand-waved Virus in my head by just accepting it as a developing sapience (which is pretty bog standard sci-fi). It's ability to take over other electronics was then simply relegated to being Virus' equivalent of psionics (i.e. magic). This also meant that Virus couldn't be actually psionic. So that was handy.
Back on the EW, seeing 1248 get overwritten was disappointing, but it is what it is.
Back on the EW, seeing 1248 get overwritten was disappointing, but it is what it is.
I write software and firmware for metal cutting machines and I have to deal with interfaces and writing all the time. I consider the Virus science handwavium akin to Star Trek science. Something that sounds good but quickly falls apart when you poke at it.
My Dad's a private pilot.
One day we were sitting on his back porch, and he's telling me about the awesome computer hacking scene in "Person of Interest" .... and was confused why I wasn't excited. It's a computer thing, I've been into computers since just after birth...
I said, "If you were watching a show, and the pilot yells to the co-pilot I need 120 degrees of flaps or we're going to crash ..."
He got this confused/upset look, and said, "That's impossible, makes no sense to have flaps go like that. That line makes no sense."
I said, "It would kinda ruin the drama for the scene, right?"
And he grinned as he realized why programmers don't watch "Super Hacker" TV shows.
Well, other than one..
I didn't forget them, but by their nature, the Vargr are even less of a unified polity than the Aslan are.
daryen
SOC-14 1K
Which makes a huge difference when you have organized and coordinated opposition.
But, if the EW completely devastates and their human controlled neighbors, the opposition is no longer organized and coordinated. Instead, they become a buffet. Obviously, there will be the non-sustainable worlds that immolate themselves for the Vargr to pick apart. But even those worlds that survive to some degree will still be extremely vulnerable to Vargr predation.
I am not saying some grand Vargr empire would rise up and take over a giant territory. I am saying that the recovery environment is the normal Vargr environment. They will recover before the humans because they were hit first, and they will recover much faster than the humans because the Vargr are used to this type of environment. There will not be some grand Vargr empire. However, "Vargr Space" will extend far, far more rimward than it did before the EW. In fact, they might be able to just follow behind the EW all the way down to the Rift. Depending on how the Vilani react to the EW, they could just get steamrolled by already recovered Vargr just following behind the EW.
"For them, it was Tuesday"
Yeah, I can even see some of the crazier to begin with Vargr worlds not noticing the EW being much different from business as usual
If there's not going to be any grand Vargr empire, then wouldn't it just be star vikings all over again, but the nasty ones not the Reformation Coalition (not quite so nasty) ones?
Also, how do people see the shifting and reforming Vargr states changing around so much? Democracies with new parties elected that take states in new directions? Autocratic dictators that take states into a new direction until one of their admirals takes over and changes policy and state direction (think bad Byzantine practices)? Both? Neither?
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
Maybe. You would probably see a range of approaches, from something like Scandinavian viking ("we'll go to trade, but take our swords and see which gets used more."), RCES reclamations (taking stuff we need from people who misuse it, ironically), to retributive nukings much like Gashikan. Of course, there are parts of the 1300 to 1900 Wilds where a few nukes are considered urban renewal.
Shifting borders, failing dynasties, and lots of *strong* personalities at the top.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Alexander the Great Dane.
daryen
SOC-14 1K
What they do will vary as much as the Vargr do themselves. The point is that they have advantage, the humans have disadvantage, and the Vargr know how to use that advantage.
In the end, "Vargr Space" would be way further rimward and would have some various human empires within it. It wouldn't be homogeneous. It would be a wide range of results. Any humans that get their acts together quickly, survive how they want to. Everyone else gets raided, killed, or taken over by more prepared Vargr. Any humans that get taken advantage of, but eventually get their act together, break off and establish their own little empire. Lots of things could happen and lots would. But you're going to see a lot more Vargr a lot farther rimward that you would without the EW.
(Meanwhile, this would all work *against* the Aslan. Vargr and human forces would be recovering as Aslan get stomped. The random lucky ihatei might have some tremendous success by "crossing" the EW, but most would get stomped by the EW, opening them to be taken advantage of by anyone who has recovered enough after already being hit. I would not be surprised by a few genocidal atrocities during this process.)
In the end, "Vargr Space" would be way further rimward and would have some various human empires within it. It wouldn't be homogeneous. It would be a wide range of results. Any humans that get their acts together quickly, survive how they want to. Everyone else gets raided, killed, or taken over by more prepared Vargr. Any humans that get taken advantage of, but eventually get their act together, break off and establish their own little empire. Lots of things could happen and lots would. But you're going to see a lot more Vargr a lot farther rimward that you would without the EW.
(Meanwhile, this would all work *against* the Aslan. Vargr and human forces would be recovering as Aslan get stomped. The random lucky ihatei might have some tremendous success by "crossing" the EW, but most would get stomped by the EW, opening them to be taken advantage of by anyone who has recovered enough after already being hit. I would not be surprised by a few genocidal atrocities during this process.)
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