Who needs stewards anyway?

[rancke]

The recent thread about what luxuries it is that can replace stewards has made me ponder the original (CT) rules, and it struck me that the rule really mixes up two different situations.

If you're a Tukera liner jumping between major traffic hubs with lots of potential passengers and keen competition for market shares from Oberlindes, Sharurshid, Al Morai, Sinzarmes, Grey Wolf Lines, Irrghdou Oezuergvoaerrghtsus, and all the other rival companies, it makes sense to have skilled stewards to provide the service High passengers are accustomed to. Everything else being equal, who wouldn't prefer to travel on a ship that provides proper service over traveling on a ship that doesn't?

But PCs are usually running Free Traders. What self-respecting High passenger is ever going to travel by Free Trader unless he has no other option? And if he's prepared to embark on a Free Trader rather than wait another 50 days for the bimonthly regular passenger liner, why would the absence of a properly trained steward make any difference?

OK, possibly Imperial regulations require a ship to have stewards in order to carry passengers, but what difference does the actual skills of the so-called stewards make? Either it's "one steward per X High passengers and one per Y Mid passengers" (regulation theory) or it's "one individual can make life reasonably pleasant for X High Passengers and Y Mid passengers per skill level". But do the passengers know about the quality of the service before enduring a trip? If the Free Trader is a local ship, it may get a reputation after carrying its passengers in misery, but Free Traders move about a lot, so what do they care?

It seems to me that the rules for stewards could do with a bit of sorting out. What do you think?


Hans

 

[Jame]

Who needs stewards anyway?

You do!

As for the steward thing ... well, I have neither knowledge nor opinion.

 

[RKFM]

I think a High passenger would have different expectation from a 'steward' on a Free Trader than a commercial liner. The Free Trader 'steward' is really just a contact person on the ship, and in the case of a High passenger cooks the meals and attends to the needs of the passenger. Since there really isn't going to be more than one 'steward' on the Free Trader, they are not going to have the same responsibilities and jobs as a steward on a commercial liner.

As far as the Steward skill, that is really just a formal form of Carousing. Able to cook and entertain people, anticipate the needs and problems dealing with passengers of all sorts. Again, this skill will have different aspects depending on if it's a small trader or a large commercial liner.

Why would a High passenger even travel on a tramp freighter? I guess they need to get somewhere that commercial ships don't travel to, or are in a hurry. However, again, they are not going to expect first class meals in their rooms and maybe a massage or two. Still, they will expect someone to tend to their needs.

 

[Space Hamster]

A high passenger might want to go on a sightseeing trip. If they are going to pay high passenger fees they want high passenger amenities. If you give them middle passenger services then they won't want to pay high passengers fees.

 

[Maccat]

not needing stewards, luxury thing aside, strikes me as off in general, and way off in CT. Re-thinking or re-working it as well for that matter lol.

Someone already mentioned carousing, carousing-1 gets you steward-0 and voila you can carry high passengers. Any free trader would gladly get that extra 2k, no? I've always been struck by the Merchant Prince stuff, where a LOT of social skills come into play. Take the adventure Exit Visa as a classic example!

I strongly feel that social skills have a place in CT, or any version. Else why have a human-populated universe? Law levels for Harrassment and bureaucracy? In a trade-centered imperium, having someone with skills in administration, or even partying can be extremely helpful.

A trader or group/party with social skills will get more patron encounters as well... Have easier ability to deal with port cargo handling stuff, to the point of *getting* cargoes, passengers as well! One without would have a much harder time of it.

My .02Cr worth, meet ya at the scouts bar lol.

 

[rancke]

A high passenger might want to go on a sightseeing trip. If they are going to pay high passenger fees they want high passenger amenities. If you give them middle passenger services then they won't want to pay high passengers fees.

How do they know ahead of time what amenities you're going to give them?

"Are you sure your steward has the necessary skill to cater to a man of my refinement and taste?"

"Oh, yes, absolutely! Pay to attention to the smudges on his overall, he's just been cleaning the oven. That's not engine grease, it's... it's... a rare delicacy from Deneb XI used in the preparation of gourmet meals! Trust me! You'll be fine. Now... about that High Passage voucher?"


Hans

 

[rancke]

I think a High passenger would have different expectation from a 'steward' on a Free Trader than a commercial liner. The Free Trader 'steward' is really just a contact person on the ship, and in the case of a High passenger cooks the meals and attends to the needs of the passenger. Since there really isn't going to be more than one 'steward' on the Free Trader, they are not going to have the same responsibilities and jobs as a steward on a commercial liner.

I agree with you, but that's not what the rule says, is it? It says a ship needs someone with steward skill to carry high passengers.

Now, does that rule reflect an Imperium-wide law that'll get the ship sued six ways from Sunday if it ever carries a High passenger without a proper steward along to make them comfortable? (What is a proper steward? Does the Imperium issue steward's licenses just as it issues Master's licenses?) Or does it reflect a sort of sixth sense that all people of exquisite taste and refinement possess which allows them to instinctly know that a ship isn't carrying a proper steward? Or is it a rule of thumb that the regular passenger lines use to determine manning, a rule that a scruffy free trader can ignore (with the appropriate social complications that may ensue) if he choses?


Hans

 

[Supplement Four]

Stewards aren't just "flight attendants", at least not in my game. They have a very critical role among the crew.

Stewards, besides making sure that the passengers are confortable, act as liasions to the passengers. This sets up all sorts of role playing opportunities. This, alone, makes the position attractive to players. The steward is always "in the heat of it" when the passengers are central to the story. Passengers are generally kept in one part of the ship, away from the crew, with access to only their staterooms and passenger lounge. On some trips, the steward is the only crew member the passengers interact with during the entire trip.

But, even if stewards weren't required for High Passengers, most Captains would still employ them. Why? Because your steward is usually also chief of security. The steward is, on a 5-7 man crew, the one that knows the passengers the best. And, since passengers are a potential threat, it makes sense to have that person also have security duties assigned to him.

Plus, the steward is also typically the ship's cargo hand and supply officer. He's in charge of loading and unloading the ship. In port, he's typically the last one to leave the ship, having to spend a day unloading cargo and ensuring the ship's supplies are restored.

Who's in charge of the Ship's Locker?

That would be the steward.

If, for some reason, the Captain requires at least one crewmember to carry a side arm, which crew member typically gets that duty?

That would be the steward.

Who, once port is made, interacts with the starport deckhands and vendors?

That wold be the steward.

If the ship needs something "special", not available at the starport, who is generally tasked with getting that item?

The steward.





You see, the steward is a very important position aboard ship, and the job is so much more than just making sure the passengers have enough pillows and are fed on time.

Typically, you'll see strong friendships bond between the ship's medical officer and the steward, as the two will generally work closely together. The same goes for the engineer, as it is the engineer who will typically help the steward with duties associated with the hold when needed (and it is the medical officer that will typically help the steward when needed concerning the passengers). But, the engineer/medical officer relationships are typically unofficial.

Unlike the ship's Gunners, who, usually, are assigned as cargo hands and assistants to the steward as part of his security/service team.



A starship is a moveable small business with just a few employees, and each job is important. On very small adventure class ships, crewmembers wear all sorts of hats depending on the need. But, in general, the steward and one or two gunners will be responsible for ship operations, including supply and security.



In other words, don't go dissin' the steward. If you (to the OP) remove the need for the steward to "wait tables" with the passengers, you're only removing one of his many duties aboard ship.

You need your steward. In many cases, the steward is the Captain's "go-to-guy".

On some starships, it's the steward that "really" runs the ship, while the ship's engineer, pilot, and navigator spend their time too focussed on their specialty.

Being ship's steward is typically thought of as the "fast track" to ship's captain.

At least among the tramp freighters.



You need your steward.

Love your steward.

Be nice to your steward.

And...he'll make sure your ship runs smoothly.

 

[the angle]

Loren Wiseman wrote an editorial in a (recent, I think) JTAS about how Marc envisioned space travel being much like air travel ... in the 60s and early 70s, when it was still reasonably glamorous (unlike the livestock shipping we have now, which is analogous to traveling low but without the advantage of being knocked out). I think of it as traveling in a sleeper berth on a train. There's no way to get around the fact that you're on a dirty, noisy, smelly, rocking, lurching train -- but if the bed is comfortable, the food is good, and the service is quick and efficient, you'll put up with it, and maybe even enjoy it, especially as you know that it's the only way to get where you're going.

Steve

 

[far-trader]

I'll have to come back to this when I get back next week but Steve's reply jars a bit with the way I've always seen it. Not saying it isn't so but it just feels wrong in so many ways that it's hard to credit. Even Steve's choice of train travel at it's height is closer imo.

I've always pictured it more analogous to ocean travel (not modern cruise ship vacations) that was pretty much already a memory when Traveller hit the shelves. The type of ocean travel more common in the 30s and 40s maybe aboard smaller ships (analogous to the Free Traders and other smaller ships).

Long trips to distant lands, for business as much as pleasure...

For some (High Pax) the trip was as much about the journey as the destination. Families would travel together, a time to be together without business pressing, a vacation in itself. There'd be socializing, sparse amenities but of high quality. No cruise directors and huge casinos, shows, and such. Simpler pastimes like sunning on the deck, Bridge (the card game, or one of many others) in the salon perhaps with small side wagering, to make it interesting. And always the attention of a Steward or two.

For others (Mid Pax) the cabin was the same but you'd be sharing it and your access to the commons might be limited, as would be the attention of the Steward. This class was mostly travelling for the vacation and it wasn't a common occurance. And generally (like in Traveller) such tickets were a kind of standby deal.

Starship travel just doesn't do it for me as anything like air travel, in any era, in any comparison. No stateroom just a couch, hours not days to your destination, inexpensive rather than very expensive, and so on.

 

[rancke]

Looks like I've been doing the authors of the first CT books an injustice. I looked in The Traveler Book, and I couldn't find anything that said that Free Traders needed stewards to carry High passengers. There's a rule in the shipbuilding section that says that when you design a ship, you have to allow for at least one steward per eight high passengers the ship is designed for, but that's not the same thing at all, is it? As I said above, it makes sense for a passenger liner to carry stewards. but once the ship falls into the hands of a Free Trader, it's a diffirent story, isn't it?


Hans

 

[aramis]

No, not really. I always read that to mean that you needed a steward for every 8 high passengers. Especialy since under Crew Requirements (TTB p59 LC) its worded as follows:

Steward (Cr3,000 monthly): Minimum one per eight high passengers. Required if high passengers are carried. Highest skilled is chief steward (or purser) and draws 10% more pay.​

Page 60 reads:

Steward: if high passengers are carried, then a steward is required. There must be at east one steward (steward skill-0 or better) per eight high passengers on the ship. If there is more than steward, the most skilled is desinated chief steward (or purser) and draws 10% more salary.​

 

[rancke]

No, not really. I always read that to mean that you needed a steward for every 8 high passengers. Especialy since under Crew Requirements (TTB p59 LC) its worded as follows:

Steward (Cr3,000 monthly): Minimum one per eight high passengers. Required if high passengers are carried. Highest skilled is chief steward (or purser) and draws 10% more pay.​

Page 60 reads:

Steward: if high passengers are carried, then a steward is required. There must be at east one steward (steward skill-0 or better) per eight high passengers on the ship. If there is more than steward, the most skilled is desinated chief steward (or purser) and draws 10% more salary.​

Right you are. I wondered myself. Thanks for providing the references.

OK, so back to the original question. What does these rules actually mean? What happens if the players advertise for High passengers and then provide stewards with no steward skills? Or, even worse, no stewards at all? Do the Odd Gods of the Galaxy strike prospective High passengers with premontions that prevent them from showing up at all? Does Imperial Starport Authority refuse the ship clearance for takeoff unless it has the requisite number of Stewards with proper licenses? Will there never be any High passengers who prefer going stweard-less for a trip to being stuck on a backwater world for who knows how many more weeks?

In short, who is it that requires al least one steward per eight high passengers? Fate? The passengers? The Imperium? And how do "they" enforce the requirement?


Hans

 

[Ran Targas]

If your crew likes trucking around big wigs with high passages, then maybe you need someone to entertain and cater to them. And then again, that's only if you want to maintain a good reputation. You could enforce this by having High Passage vouchers only redeemable with a positive report from the travellers or creating a certification that signifies High Passage quality service.

It's an expensive proposition (in addition to paying a steward) to maintain a high level of luxury onboard when there might not be any paying customers, although I'm sure the some of the crew would be taking advantage of it, with permission or not. Fresh vittles would be tough to pass up when you've been eating rations for most of a week.

I still think it's an odd notion that Mr. Howell and Lovey would be looking for a lift on a tramp freighter anyway. Given the option, I suspect they would either take a cruise liner or charter a yacht, not climb into a working cargo ship.

Now, given proper motivation, a big spender might slum it on a Type S, but only if fast transportation was a higher priority than pricey accomodations. This does make for an interesting plot device; a nervous traveller looking to exchange a high passage voucher for a speedy departure and no questions asked.

 

[aramis]

Really simple, Hans, a merchant spacer's ticket...

Passing the test for steward endorsement requires at least steward 0...

 

[rancke]

I still think it's an odd notion that Mr. Howell and Lovey would be looking for a lift on a tramp freighter anyway. Given the option, I suspect they would either take a cruise liner or charter a yacht, not climb into a working cargo ship.

That's exactly my point. It is an odd notion. Yet every time the good ship Rustbucket comes to a new port and announces its next port of call, the ref rolls the dice and if luck is with the ship, several prospective high passengers show up at the airlock waving High Passage vouchers. If the captain of this tramp freighter informs them that he does not ship a qualified steward, but the engine hands will be pleased to try their hands at stewarding when their duties permit, how many of those prospective passengers are going to be surprised?[*]


[*] "Captain, I am astonished to learn that the service aboard your scruffy old Free Trader is not up to the standard of Tukera. I had planned to grace your ship with my patronage because I expected it to provide the finest in food and service as a matter of course!"


Hans

 

[rancke]

Really simple, Hans, a merchant spacer's ticket...

Passing the test for steward endorsement requires at least steward 0...

So you're saying someone administers tests of steward skills and issues steward endorsements? OK, let's say you're right. Then what? Rustbucket touches down on Rhylanor. The captain puts up a notice that in five days he will depart for Porozlo. The referee rolls three dice and add 3 to the result. That's a minimum of six high passengers who want to take advantage of this unsheduled opportunity to get to Porozlo. Say there is more than enough mid passengers to fill the staterooms (4D+3). That means those High Passage holders have to use their High Passages to bump mid passengers[*]. What happens if the Captain tells them that he doesn't have a qualified steward? What happens if he doesn't tell them that he doesn't have a qualified steward?


[*] I'm stipulating this to head off suggestions that all those High passengers negotiate a Cr2000 discount when they hear they can't get decent service aboard.



Hans

 

[aramis]

Given that there are references to the IISS administering tests in some magazine article, yes.

In order to cash in the HP coupon, you have to have a steward endorsed spacer aboard.
If they don't have a coupon and are paying cash, well, caveat emptor.

Also, keep in mind: you base objection, as stated, is that people wouldn't take HP aboard a tramp to be the same as HP aboard a liner; nothing in the rules makes liners special. It's like the age of sail... if you wanted to go somewhere, you waited until someone posted they were going to go there, or at least close by.

EG, you want to get to St. Albans, England. You would wait for a ship bound for London. You would take passage on the vessel if the captain guaranteed suitable terms of passage. You then get off (hopefully) in London, pay your duties, and find ground transport to St Alban's.

It was the way of travel for over 100 years, and the only reason it isn't still the rule of travel is we can now communicate faster and farther than the ship can travel.

Even the steam liners of the late 19th C still had cargo... and many merchants carried passengers, tho' not all, to turn an extra profit.

Heck, Hans, EVEN NOW, one can book space on a merchant; the big container craft often have a few extra rooms for passengers. And don't take "High passengers"... you mess with the crew, and you have run of the deck. If you're lucky, you get to watch the crew's movies in the mess.

A modern cruise liner isn't about travel, it's a resort on the ocean. It's not comparable to the average traveler in Traveller, who is going from A to B.

 

[epicenter00]

My suspicion is that in a stratified society like the 3I where honor means so much and so on, that there are some thing where you don't require actual laws to enforce them, but rather it's done by the weight of custom, reputation, and tradition that are as strong (or stronger) than laws.

As an example, we'll say the Baron of Somewhere is on safari on some backwater planet Spinward Marches. His daughter, who attends some posh finishing school whose year isn't finished yet and his wife, who has some social needs to attend to don't go with him immediately but instead follow on by a few months.

The wife and daughter and their faithful manservant Jeeves take main lines as far as they go. However, on some world with a B-class starport, they need to book a passage to some world with a D-class starport where the Baron is. It's not really considered below most nobles and the wealthy to take tramp freighters if required, after all.

Since they're nobles, it'd be scandalous for them to actually attend to such matters themselves, so the wife and daughter send forth the commoner, Jeeves to locate passage. Jeeves dutifully puts on his hat, goes to the Downport and looks for ships going to the place he's going to.

When he has a list of likely prospects, he checks with the TAS to see if any of the ships have a good reputation (or conversely a bad reputation) and when they're leaving. Then for the ships with nothing special about them or a good reputation, he leaves a notice for the ship's steward that he is looking into potentially booking a passage for a lady and her daughter.

Any ship where the captain answers the message is immediately discarded as déclassé, obviously unsuited to carrying a lady and her daughter, probably inhabited by Solomani dicing in the gangways and those ill-reputed Zhodani in the engine room. Those where a steward answers the message with the proper level of politeness and class, offering a tour of the facilities and a meeting with the captain are considered.

Jeeves proceeds to visit each of the ships in turn, speaking with the steward while getting a tour of the ship and checking the facilities with a practiced eye. This is quite important, is the steward a man or woman of proper class who knows his or her place? If the facilities are cramped, are they clean and tidy? How do the crew around the ship look? How does the rest of the ship look? How much would the crew and passengers have to mingle? Are there separate facilities for the crew and passengers? Does the steward know what or she is talking about and realize that the crew and the passengers cannot possibly mingle (for instance, are there different dining times for the crew and the officers and passengers)? Jeeves would have a variety of questions about such things. Finally, Jeeves wouldn't leave without speaking with the captain and taking the measure of the man or woman. Of course, the captain would be aware of such customs and would make sure to be around, but the Steward and the Captain would ensure that Jeeves doesn't meet the Captain until the end and the reaction is favorable. The Captain might be on the bridge but more likely in his or her office, pouring through logbooks or something.

Only after all that would Jeeves decide on which ship he'll recommend to his lady.

Alternatively, at more crowded starports, ships that want to carry High Passages probably have a broker at the starport who does much the same things as Jeeves does. As the broker's reputation is on the line, he (or she) would probably ensure there's a proper distribution of Stewards and so on the ships. In this case, Jeeves' job would be a lot easier, probably speaking with the broker first to get the gist of a ship before going to visit it (along with the broker) to get his own measure.

That's how I see Steward. So I definitely think that levels of Steward should also have a bearing on High Passages, not just if you have the skill or not.

 

[rancke]

In order to cash in the HP coupon, you have to have a steward endorsed spacer aboard.

If they don't have a coupon and are paying cash, well, caveat emptor.

Exactly. As for the rule about High passage vouchers being invalid without an accredited steward aboard, it seems a lot of bureaucracy for no real gain. Why would the Imperium care in the first place? But it might be so.

Also, keep in mind: you base objection, as stated, is that people wouldn't take HP aboard a tramp to be the same as HP aboard a liner;

Not quite. It's rather that I don't think anyone would travel by Free Trader if a more savory alternative (ie. a regular liner) is available. So, given that the prospective passenger is motivated to travel by Free Trader in the first place (implying the lack of a reasonable alternative or some compelling reason not to avail himself of any such alternative), what are the odds that the lack of proper service is going to make him change his mind?

...nothing in the rules makes liners special.

No, that's just it. I'm suggesting the rules ought to distinguish between tramp ships and regular liners.

It's like the age of sail... if you wanted to go somewhere, you waited until someone posted they were going to go there, or at least close by.

EG, you want to get to St. Albans, England. You would wait for a ship bound for London. You would take passage on the vessel if the captain guaranteed suitable terms of passage. You then get off (hopefully) in London, pay your duties, and find ground transport to St Alban's.

I wonder if it really was that haphazard. I think the Indiamen were fairly regular. And if they weren't in the 17th Century, things improved in the 18th and 19th Century. Still, I know very little about civilan shipping during the Age of Sail.

It was the way of travel for over 100 years, and the only reason it isn't still the rule of travel is we can now communicate faster and farther than the ship can travel.

No, it's because ships became more reliable. Crossing the Atlantic no longer took two to four weeks (God willing), it took five to six days.

Even the steam liners of the late 19th C still had cargo... and many merchants carried passengers, tho' not all, to turn an extra profit.

Heck, Hans, EVEN NOW, one can book space on a merchant; the big container craft often have a few extra rooms for passengers. And don't take "High passengers"... you mess with the crew, and you have run of the deck. If you're lucky, you get to watch the crew's movies in the mess.

Now you're confusing me. Isn't that just the point I'm raising? That there's a big difference between regular passenger liners and tramp merchants?

A modern cruise liner isn't about travel, it's a resort on the ocean. It's not comparable to the average traveler in Traveller, who is going from A to B.

The only thing I'm comparing is going from A to B on a regular passenger liner and going from A to B on a Free Trader. The setting description (and some of the rules too) do distinguish between Free Traders and various types of shipping lines, so that's perfectly canonical.


Hans