Why manned turrets?

[sabredog]

The acceleration compensators - which are written up in just about every CT adventure or supplement that details starships - states that they cancel all movement affects and that crew and passengers get no sense of acceleration at all.

And what about missiles impacting the ship? Do the compensators compensate for that, too, along with the relative motion of the ship - which may be under the influence of Manuever/Evade and jinking madly, or do the players have to throw themselves around the room to simulate it?

I would think that impacts would at least cause something to happen inside the ship.

 

[mike wightman]

Nope - rules as written state no acceleration affects. There is no mention of impacts causing the crew and passengers to fly all over the place Star Trek style.

If you want to introduce such an affect IYTU then go ahead - I do

 

[HG_B]

Nope - rules as written state no acceleration affects. There is no mention of impacts causing the crew and passengers to fly all over the place Star Trek style.

If you want to introduce such an affect IYTU then go ahead - I do

Acceleration from the ships own maneuvering. IF, a nuc weapon went off right next to the ship, there would movement relative to the force against the mass of the ship in question. That would be the only ship to ship weapon that I could see causing noticeable external movement.

 

[BytePro]

Actually, in space, there would be no blast effects.

So ships not in atmo will experience only the force of mass impact of any missiles - even explosive warheads would only be effective if the missile was a penetrator variety.

Quick google... http://history.nasa.gov/conghand/nuclear.htm

 

[BytePro]

...
I would think that impacts would at least cause something to happen inside the ship.

Load twang?

(Not sure the analogy is correct - but, does a tank generally move if a missile strikes without penetrating the armor?)

If the 50 kg missiles could build up a high enough delta-v (don't think they last enough turns normally), and the hull didn't give, then maybe smaller ships would move fast enough to overcome gravitic compensation?

Per above, my take is the missiles would have to penetrate the hull and detonate in a medium (fuel, walls, etc.) for an explosion to be of value - just detonating outside the hull is likely to have little effect.

If there is no or significantly reduced atmo there will be no shock waves and such inside the ship... shrapnel would be the primary concern then.

Mostly - the exciting stuff happens from collateral damage.

With atmo there is smoke, fire perhaps (instantly filtered and extinguished IMTU by redundant distributed wall imbedded systems, unless the warhead contains its own significant oxidizer source) and loss of atmo (self defeating in that event).

 

[Enoki]

And I just hate being the guy to put in the tompions on the lasers after combat. Having to hold my breath for that long sucks.

You think that's bad try hitting a enemy ship travelling a gazillion kilometers a second using a gunner's quadrant and plumb bob for aiming.... o:

 

[Enoki]

Nope - rules as written state no acceleration affects. There is no mention of impacts causing the crew and passengers to fly all over the place Star Trek style.

If you want to introduce such an affect IYTU then go ahead - I do

I would think that the compensation has limits that when exceeded will cause things to fly about but that would be well above what was normally expected.

 

[madmike]

Civilian ships have civilian grade compensators. Fine for standard movement, manoeuvres and acceleration/deceleration but not for rapid evasive combat related manoeuvres and associated stresses. So there certainly would be some affect to the ship's crew and internal fittings.

With that in mind, manually handling a missile reload whilst in combat would be a tad tough.

Military grade compensators would be stronger and designed for combat stresses. But even those would have limitations as well.

 

[madmike]

You think that's bad try hitting a enemy ship travelling a gazillion kilometers a second using a gunner's quadrant and plumb bob for aiming.... o:

Yeah....

On the up roll!!! Fire!!!!! does not quite cut it

 

[robject]

Which brings up the question of whether or not a merchant would even have something like missile racks with 5kCr missiles on it.

Probably influenced by Citizen of the Galaxy?

 

[HG_B]

Actually, in space, there would be no blast effects.

There would be no atmospheric blast effect. There is still kinetic energy imparted....

 

[HG_B]

Civilian ships have civilian grade compensators. Fine for standard movement, manoeuvres and acceleration/deceleration but not for rapid evasive combat related manoeuvres and associated stresses. So there certainly would be some affect to the ship's crew and internal fittings.

Civilian ships have compensators that match their engine G rating. There is no movement or maneuvers greater than that. A Free trader with a Mdrive of 1G rating can only do that. Not sure what else you'd be referring to when you say, "but not for rapid evasive combat related manoeuvres and associated stresses." as that doesn't exist.

 

[PFVA63]

"Why manned turrets?"

Because putting kittens in them would be kind of mean.

 

[pendragonman]

Load twang?

(Not sure the analogy is correct - but, does a tank generally move if a missile strikes without penetrating the armor?)

If the 50 kg missiles could build up a high enough delta-v (don't think they last enough turns normally), and the hull didn't give, then maybe smaller ships would move fast enough to overcome gravitic compensation?

Per above, my take is the missiles would have to penetrate the hull and detonate in a medium (fuel, walls, etc.) for an explosion to be of value - just detonating outside the hull is likely to have little effect.

If there is no or significantly reduced atmo there will be no shock waves and such inside the ship... shrapnel would be the primary concern then.

Mostly - the exciting stuff happens from collateral damage.

With atmo there is smoke, fire perhaps (instantly filtered and extinguished IMTU by redundant distributed wall imbedded systems, unless the warhead contains its own significant oxidizer source) and loss of atmo (self defeating in that event).

Usually, a missile impact on a tank that doesn't penetrate make a really, really loud heavily metallic WHANG! and often lossens metal from the inside of the armor, which in turn is what gets the crew kill (at last) and sometimes a brew up as that interior metal often superheats and flies around with a decent percentage of the velocity of the missile. That stuff from the inside of the armor is called spall. Spall is how HEAT rounds get their kills. Spall is also the armor that is pushed inside as a kintetic energy penetrator pushes its way thru, like a SABOT round.


Now, about G-compensators. They have their limits, and that is the limits of the M drive. Kinetic Energy from missiles can impart G to the ship that can overwhelm the G-compensators. It really isn't that hard when the ship only has 1 or 2 g g comps. We are talking about 20 m/s^2 change. This includes the sudden, sharp breaking that can be caused by a series of explosions in direct opposition to the movement vector.

But we are going to physics arguments, and you guys tell me over and over again that they make no sense in this game. Please point me to a canon source that declares DEFINITIVELY AND NOT INTERPRETIVELY whether passengers inside a ship are affected by combat maneuvers or not, and that ship vectors are or are not affected by nearby explosion.

Again, if it is not declared in clear text, I do not consider it a definitive statement.

 

[pendragonman]

"Why manned turrets?"

Because putting kittens in them would be kind of mean.

More importantly, why not womanned turrets?

 

[Dragoner]

Mostly - the exciting stuff happens from collateral damage.

So like in reality, things like your bridge in a sponson such as on the A2, would rip off the main hull when the hull was hit anywhere, nice design there.

 

[HG_B]

More importantly, why not womanned turrets?

Back by popular demand...

 

[madmike]

Civilian ships have compensators that match their engine G rating. There is no movement or maneuvers greater than that. A Free trader with a Mdrive of 1G rating can only do that. Not sure what else you'd be referring to when you say, "but not for rapid evasive combat related manoeuvres and associated stresses." as that doesn't exist.

It would exist, especially if a pilot red lines a ship's drive in an accelerated manoeuvre on a radically different vector to evade during combat.

OK, if you have a M1 drive providing a maximum inertial compensation field of 1G, then rapid manoeuvres to avoid an incoming high velocity object (read: missile) would impart stresses during that instant of that manoeuvre. That would be no different than a person on ground within a 1G environment feeling some stress when they make a rapid change of direction or influenced by an outside force, such as a jolt or shake.

So additional stresses are momentary but there as the inertial field would take a moment to adjust, particularly as the field is constantly maintaining power allocation to the gravity plates built into the ships decks. Why else would Starships still need acceleration couches? If the ship had a 100% perfect inertial compensation field where they would feel no movement at all, then the need for acceleration couches would not be needed.

Military grade compensators adjust far more quickly during times of rapid acceleration and deceleration. This would be essential for combat manoeuvres

At least, that is how I interpret how it all works. If the fields were perfect, it adds new meaning to "spacers legs" as a spacer coming off a starship would need to reaquire "ground legs" and visa versa!

 

[pendragonman]

Back by popular demand...

Now, isn't that better!

 

[HG_B]

It would exist, especially if a pilot red lines a ship's drive in an accelerated manoeuvre on a radically different vector to evade during combat.

OK, if you have a M1 drive providing a maximum inertial compensation field of 1G, then rapid manoeuvres to avoid an incoming high velocity object (read: missile) would impart stresses during that instant of that manoeuvre.

One G is one G. A 1 G drive produces 1 G. Doesn't matter how hard you jab the button. The maximum stress on the ship is 1 G from the drive. Inescapable physics.