Ok bored at work again and I noticed that the Map of the Zhodani Conulate is different depending on what source you use. The original Alien Module shows Chit Botshti outside the borders but if you look at the dot map in Vilani & Vargr part is inside the borders. A good way to see this is use the Traveller Map by zooming in and out. Just one of those things that made me go hmmmmm.
Zhodani Consulate Map
- Thread starter JBRocky
- Start date
Yep, the CT maps of Charted Space (eg Library Data supplements) and MT maps (mostly DGP's Vilani and Vargr) don't match up on the Coreward edge. The Consulate extends and the Vargr polities are pretty different.
FWIW, once we have all of the Charted Space sectors mapped I plan to regenerate the "macro" borders from the "micro" borders. Zho space has become the biggest outlier, as K'kree space is nearly complete.
FWIW, once we have all of the Charted Space sectors mapped I plan to regenerate the "macro" borders from the "micro" borders. Zho space has become the biggest outlier, as K'kree space is nearly complete.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
To make both borders "right" could be as easy as changing the regions added by V&V to some sort of fait accompli Zhodani allegiance code.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
In theory the two are about fifteen years apart for game-internal date.
The conceptual problem is that the Zhodani "stopped expanding" a thousand years ago.
If the new zone was annexed in response to some external concerns the Consulate might make an exception, but that also happens to be the sector row the Empress Wave was plowing through during the Classic and early Rebellion era (not that DGP would have known that). The Zhodani were ill-equipped to go claiming new territory in that neighborhood, unless they decided to hop over the Wave and "rescue" (study, conquer, etc) those free worlds scrambled by it.
As an unrelated note, that sector has some UWP issues. Repeated worlds, and an interesting interpretation of the MGT model for Zhodani worlds. Instead of stripping worlds that rolled a Pop 3 or less down to Barren, all such worlds were apparently promoted to Pop 4.
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What about the Core Expedition? Isn't that expansion of a sort?
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
Of a sort. The material suggests that the Zhodani see that as an expansion of knowledge, and only officially maintain a relative handful of way stations along the route. Those way stations that are not placed with allied locals may be culturally Zhodani and essentially Consulate in structure are still self sustaining, just as a requirement of their remoteness.
Due to the needs of the current incarnation of the timeline, which has significant Zhodani upheaval during the Imperial Rebellion as a response to the Empress Wave, the answer which makes the most sense is that the coreward "extension" seen in MT has been there all along. The older redline and AM4 maps are thus interpretable as Imperial estimates of the coreward Consulate border.
Makes sense...
Once one includes the sparsely settled sectors (caveat) along the core expedition route, the Consulate is by far the largest of the major race polities.
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
Or at least one of the most widely travelled (unless you look at the Solomani Reconnaissance to the Rim, or Turakon's Expeditions to the Rim)
Http://web.archive.org/web/20030406...com/traveller_core_route/proj004/proj004.html
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Condottiere
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There's only one direction they can expand without any real opposition, but I suspect they tend to be a combination of private, corporate, planetary and Confederate funded exploratory expeditions.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
It started in an MT era manuscript that ultimately too too long to write and was abandoned when the Rebellion moved into later stages. I think the idea was picked up by later Canon writers, though not in detail.
General Turokan spent the last several years of his life detailing both the Zhodani Core Path and the Solomani Rim Expedition. He finished the Core Path, but didn't get as far on the Rim Expedition.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
Damn straight, skippy.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Apparently, cartographers set up future conflicts, and get to label stuff.
GC,
*** What sort of material is available for the Rim Expedition? ***
The Core Expedition material is fascinating.
*** Turokan's Expedition, is that the same thing? It goes through Hiver space... Not a very Solomani thing to do... Am I recalling it incorrectly? ***
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
I do not recall any specific data, but I do remember seeing galactic maps with two Rim Expeditions marked:
1) A "general" Solomani Rim Expedition due Rimward, and
2) Turokan's Expedition along a Rim-trailing bearing.
2) Turokan's Expedition along a Rim-trailing bearing.
Courtesy of Clifford Linehan, I have recently come into possession of Bari Z. Stafford Sr.'s "Turokan's Expedition to the Rim" files, including the sector data and notes associated with each sector and the expedition as a whole. While I've barely scratched the surface of the data, a few relevant details:
The route is an Imperial-sponsored round trip from Capital/Core sector, starting in 1100 returning in 1190. It does cross Hiver space on the way. It traverses just under 5000 parsecs rimward and trailing (90 sectors rimward, 90 sectors trailing, so 180 sectors). Bari's mapped sectors continue onward, for 238 total.
The stellar density is high in the non-rift areas (close to 50%) and also high in the inter-arm rifts. Nearly all of the non-rift areas are controlled by large, multi-sector polities which border neighbors with few unclaimed systems in between. It includes a spread of tech levels, mode is 8, but even some TL-H's and higher out there. In other words, Bari's vision of space beyond Charted Space is similar to Charted Space itself.
I'll be making the data available somehow, but since it contrasts wildly with the OTU setting I won't be simply incorporating it into the main Traveller Map.
The route is an Imperial-sponsored round trip from Capital/Core sector, starting in 1100 returning in 1190. It does cross Hiver space on the way. It traverses just under 5000 parsecs rimward and trailing (90 sectors rimward, 90 sectors trailing, so 180 sectors). Bari's mapped sectors continue onward, for 238 total.
The stellar density is high in the non-rift areas (close to 50%) and also high in the inter-arm rifts. Nearly all of the non-rift areas are controlled by large, multi-sector polities which border neighbors with few unclaimed systems in between. It includes a spread of tech levels, mode is 8, but even some TL-H's and higher out there. In other words, Bari's vision of space beyond Charted Space is similar to Charted Space itself.
I'll be making the data available somehow, but since it contrasts wildly with the OTU setting I won't be simply incorporating it into the main Traveller Map.
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