MGT Only: 300-ton stretched refitted Free Trader

[Blue Ghost]

Yeah, either a new hull form factor out of the shipyards, or taking an existing type-S and doing as you described, which is what is done to stretch limos; saw it in half, add a couple of staterooms, and see where that goes.

I'll contemplate it some. I really need to crank out some meat for an adventure ... but this is an idea that's been in the back of my mind for a while.

 

[Redcap]

ISTR some 200-ton scout designs somewhere; might be an idea to have a look for them, see if you can adapt them to use?

 

[Blue Ghost]

Well, I asked Wayne about modifying his design because I liked it better than the type-S, and I thought I might include it in an adventure; i.e. the players start out with a ship that has two extra staterooms and ... like 10% more fuel (or whatever the tonnage works out as), and off they go. Just to break things up a bit.

A "stretch" type-S, I'm thinking, would had a "straight" mid section or a kind of christmas tree look to it, ergo I think a new hull is probably more in line with a "slightly bigger" version. Maybe call it a Type-S2 or something.

 

[Redcap]

I follow the thinking, but I don't think it'd be that easy to pull off, deckplans-wise, unless you keep things simple; In that vein, you'd lose the 'attic' (see LBB Supp#7 pp17, upper cargo bay, #18 on the diagram) from the get go, assuming no other engineering or hull changes. If you go for an increased hull size, then at the very least you're doubling the size of the scout immediately, and that fillet's going to look darn weird; better to design a whole new class, and be done with it.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Yeah, which is why I considered doing it with Wayne's Florian first as opposed to a type-S.

It's funny though, because in most of my gaming sessions I rarely saw anyone use the "upstairs" on scout ... not all scout ships had them, IIRC. On a merchant or one of the FASA ACS ships it was a different story for some reason.

I guess I've always been of the opinion that there were several "type-S" variants in service. I think some of Keith's sketches have a bubble canopy for the bridge, while Dietrick or the other guy (I can't remember the name of the guy who does the really cool soft sketches), has inset windows.

I think Keith also has a very flat version of the type-S as well, which might be right for an alteration. Pulling the nose forward would do the trick.

I'm going to try and get some writing done, and then do some tinkering later on.

 

[Redcap]

Yeah, for one of the original "settled" designs, there sure are a lot of variations Be interested to see where you go what that idea

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I also ran the basics of the Aregeii through High Guard Shipyard 1.314, to get the CT Book 5 High Guard stats.... they came out VERY similar to the MgT figures, which was nice, and I've included them below for comparison: Note: The Air/Raft was NOT included, but even so, it won't be that far off

You can save significantly with LBB2 drives and a /bis computer. You loose a few Dt to increased fuel consumption, though. I could get the price down below MCr 110.

The configuration might not suit your concept, but config 2 is at least marginally cheaper and should work for you?

Still horribly uneconomical as a freighter.

 

[Redcap]

Interesting; I'll have to have a dekko at the MgT HG2e rules, and see how that works out. Hadn't really considered a flattened sphere before now (a bit too star warsy imnsho )

 

[Redcap]

OK, got home, looking at the books, there doesn't appear to be a flattened sphere option within MgT HG 2e Did I miss something?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Sorry, the flattened sphere design is LBB5, as a comment on High Guard Shipyard design last page.

 

[kilemall]

OK, got home, looking at the books, there doesn't appear to be a flattened sphere option within MgT HG 2e Did I miss something?

He's likely talking CT-HG.

If I was going to stretch any scout design, it would likely be that Serpent-class deckplan, very amenable to alteration I think.

 

[Redcap]

Oh, now that's irritating Any ideas how to go about creating a flattened sphere in the design of a ship under MgT HG2e?

 

[Redcap]

He's likely talking CT-HG.

If I was going to stretch any scout design, it would likely be that Serpent-class deckplan, very amenable to alteration I think.

(snip)

Hmm. Yeah, the 'tube' fuselage could easily be lengthened, and the wings elongated to suit. That'd work, I think Good idea!

 

[Redcap]

You can save significantly with LBB2 drives and a /bis computer. You loose a few Dt to increased fuel consumption, though. I could get the price down below MCr 110.

The configuration might not suit your concept, but config 2 is at least marginally cheaper and should work for you?

(snip)

Still horribly uneconomical as a freighter.

Further on the MgT available hull configurations; page 11 of MgT HG2e states:

Hull Configurations

Hull Configuration      Streamlined?    Hull Points     Cost
Close Structure         Partial         +10%            -10%
Standard                Partial         -               -
Dispersed Structure     No              -10%            -50%
Streamlined             Yes             -               +20%
Planetoid               No              +25%            Special
Sphere                  Partial         -               -20%
Buffered Planetoid      No              +50%            Special

Streamlined and Sphere are the only ones even close to the flattened sphere; I'm going to have to assume that 'streamlined' would include a flattened sphere by default?

Any objections?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Streamlined and Sphere are the only ones even close to the flattened sphere; I'm going to have to assume that 'streamlined' would include a flattened sphere by default?

You could just as well use sphere.

Partially streamlined does not mean the same thing in CT and MgT.

 

[Redcap]

You could just as well use sphere.

Rant time: Not pointing any fingers at any one person, company, entity, or parallel dimension... but... I do wish rules were universally written with the intention of them being used by people literate in a language, who use words in the way the language intended, rather than in some convoluted warped la-la-land-like weirdness that only the author understands, but which eludes pretty-much everyone else with a few brain cells to rub together... *sigh*

Case in point:

Partially streamlined does not mean the same thing in CT and MgT.

Something is either streamlined, or it is not. There is no inbetween. (shades of "Do. Or do not. There is no try" )

(...It's been a difficult shift...)

Anyhow, streamlined is what I'll use on the spreadsheet, to see if anything gets better for the class. But not tonight. I'm gonna get some much needed sleep, now

 

[aramis]

Rant time: Not pointing any fingers at any one person, company, entity, or parallel dimension... but... I do wish rules were universally written with the intention of them being used by people literate in a language, who use words in the way the language intended, rather than in some convoluted warped la-la-land-like weirdness that only the author understands, but which eludes pretty-much everyone else with a few brain cells to rub together... *sigh*

Case in point:

Something is either streamlined, or it is not. There is no inbetween. (shades of "Do. Or do not. There is no try" )

Tell that to detroit...

In CT B2, SL was a boolean cost modifier, but the ships are described such that they fall into 4 categories, tho' not explicitly called out...

Label	type	exemplars
SL	Airframe	Type R, Type T
SL	Bullets & Wedges	Type A, Type S, most small craft
USL	Landable	Type C
USL	Unlandable	Type Y

The later CT Bk2 style ships types added:

Label	type	exemplars
SL	Airframe	Type R, Type T, Type K, Some small craft
SL	Bullets & Wedges	Type A, Type A2, Type S, Type L, most small craft
USL	Landable	Type C
USL	Unlandable	Type Y, Type P

CT Bk5 HG added PSL for ships with fairings but not landing gear.
Note that Gareth has claimed not to have had permission to use CT Bk5 when writing MGT. I cannot assess the veracity of that claim. I can, however, assure that he was working from CT 1E... which didn't have all the same ships as 2E, nor as 2.1 (TTB) nor 2.2 (ST).

So, there have been gaps in the nomenclature which Marc et al simply ignored - USL Bk2 ships can be landing capable - they are PSL hulls in Bk5, as noted in the Bk5 official stats for them.

You're dealing with a legacy issue that simply has been patched by newer rules, and then became an issue again because Gareth and Matthew chose to work from CT 1E... without actually bothering to find the root issues and solve them.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

USL

Landable

Type C

Is it?

The LBB2 rules are clear: it is unstreamlined, so it cannot land in atmospheres.

The presentation in JTAS#8 says:

The ship itself is unstreamlined, although it has sufficient lack of projections to allow it to skim hydrogen from gas giants in order to refuel. It may land on vacuum worlds, but generally interacts with the surfaces of worlds through its complement of 50-ton cutters, ...

In other words it is what LBB5 calls partially streamlined, hence cannot land in atmospheres, but can skim gas giants.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Something is either streamlined, or it is not. There is no inbetween. (shades of "Do. Or do not. There is no try" )

No, a hull can be more or less streamlined.

In Traveller terms "streamlined" basically means that bits will not fall off when you move at speed in atmosphere, where atmosphere is highly variable. Wings are not necessarily included.

When you skim a GG you only pass through the very thin upper atmosphere, so the hull is less stressed than if you fly the same speed at sea level on Earth, hence "partially streamlined" is enough.

 

[mike wightman]

Is it?

The LBB2 rules are clear: it is unstreamlined, so it cannot land in atmospheres.

The presentation in JTAS#8 says:

In other words it is what LBB5 calls partially streamlined, hence cannot land in atmospheres, but can skim gas giants.

And yet in Adventure:8 Broadsword, which is set on this world-

This adventure takes place on Garda-Vilis (0308-8978868-A), which is in
the Vilis subsector of the Spinward Marches. Garda-Vilis is 14,400 km in diameter
(9000 miles) with a standard, tainted atmosphere, and seas covering 80% of its surface.

the Broadsword is able to land :CoW: