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MGT Only: 300-ton stretched refitted Free Trader

Well, I think I'm going to stick with my own interpretation of the Canon rules for now. Given that I'm likely going to be running a difficult enough game with this ship in it, I see no reason at all to add to my workloads ;)
 
...
We've already discussed in another thread, the mass limits suggested in CT mean that a 5 dTon container of steel needn't necessarily contain 70m3 of steel. Similarly, a 5 dTon container of Mach 5700 Superdense razors with Densitometer Chin Detection(tm) necessarily needn't container 70m3 of blades.

Dammit, all these years I've been trying to make my money by trading in goods, when I could have gotten rich by investing in companies that sold packing peanuts. :D
 
Dammit, all these years I've been trying to make my money by trading in goods, when I could have gotten rich by investing in companies that sold packing peanuts. :D

ROFLMFAO, you evil so-and-so, now I've got a mental image of a Vargr customs inspector covered ears to footpaws with styrofoam packing peanuts, and a bunch of Humans rolling around nearby, right after he's opened a shipping container that contains a single grand piano! :rofl:
 
What really irritates them is when I grab some of the bubble-wrap and start popping it.:smirk:

rofl.gif
 
Right, while I get to grips with Campaign Cartographer again, I've come up with a class-name and some blurb for the ship :)

TL 12 Argeii-class Subsidised 300-ton frontier trader type AP Mk 1(ARP)

Produced in large numbers by General Products, using traditional and established technologies, and named after a prolific and industrious winged aviatic creature on Heya (Heya / Regina (Spinward Marches 2402)) that gathers its nesting materials like cargo every first season, the Argeii-class frontier trader vessel is a small but efficient tramp freighter design seen in abundance in the Domain of Deneb and neighbouring Domains.

Manufactured since roughly 1080 or so, the Argeii-class has helped to restore General Products reputation for producing safe and reliable ships, a reputation that took a battering ten years previously with several hull designs suffering fatal flaws in jump, jump transition, and re-entry manoeuvres, all of which can put severe stresses on a hull. The Hulls on the Argeii-class were manufactured at a new plant on Regina (Regina / Regina (Spinward Marches 1910)), with the older plant being decommissioned shortly before the first Argeii hull was laid down.

The Mark 1 (ARP) is the most common version of this ship, and is fitted with an air/raft 'garage', as well as passenger berths.

While this ship IS marginally profitable as a mortgaged ship, it depends very much on the ship being fully-laden for every trip over forty years. As a result, it is more than likely that any vessel of this type that might be encountered will be a subsidised vessel.

Comments on the above blurb?
 
OK, draft lower deck plan; it's missing turrets, passenger area, staterooms and berths, and the air/raft garage, which will be on the upper deck. Also note I had to do this in Macromedia Fireworks, as I simply could not get my copy of Campaign Cartographer to play in my Linux box :mad:

Anyhow, the idea is that cargo will be loaded on at the front, offloaded at the rear, and in addition, as befits a militarily-subsidised transport, cargo can additionally be dropped out the back on grav chutes, much like a C-130 and C-17 aircraft of today. Hence the twin sets of ramps ;)

Thoughts? Comments? Critique?
 

Attachments

  • DRAFT TL 12 Argeii-class Subsidised 300-ton frontier trader - LOWER DECK.jpg
    DRAFT TL 12 Argeii-class Subsidised 300-ton frontier trader - LOWER DECK.jpg
    41 KB · Views: 29
I would try to get a large contiguous cargo hold, probably in the centre of the ship. Something like subsidised merchant.

The drives are only ~10% of the ship, placing them beside the hold should be doable. It would even help manoeuvrability and balance.

The staterooms might have a lift to the upper level?

I would try to separate crew and passengers to put two bulkheads between the passengers and bridge & engineering, for security.
 
I was trying for a different design philosophy than the fat trader, which has its engines to the sides of a central through-and-through cargo hold; the Marava class far trader has the engines and plant at the rear, with a central hold. Another reason to keep all the drive and plant in one bay is eas of access ;)

I do take the point regarding the lift, though.

The almost entirely surrounded by 'glass' cockpit has two reasons; first, to allow the pilot and nav to see almost all the way round the vessel for up-ship and down-ship vertical transitions, and also whilst on the ground, to monitor cargo operations. I'd like to retain that, it's a nice unique touch for this class. The one hiccup I have in the current cargo hold design is the step to the forward area of the bay, which would slow cargo ops.

Back to the lift point you made earlier, I'm more inclined to add a set of stairs and an airlock-style set of doors for security (iris valves); at a regular port, the ship could have a suspended walkway from the terminus to the upper deck (like aircraft of today at airports), rather than trying to de-conflict themselves from cargo operations on the ground.

Comments, suggestions, thoughts?
 
hard to comment intelligently without having the whole boat in view, but it looks good so far. and having all of engineering in one space rather than in two is preferable.
 
OK, update time.

I've been working on and off on this; I've got it roughly where I want it now, and I'm working on the deck plans. Here's what I've got thus far...

Argeii-class-main-deck.jpg


This is the main deck. As can be seen, there are two cargo bays, port and starboard. they load front and/or rear, but are primarily designed to drop a load of grav-shute retarded containers out the back over a drop zone (it's a militarily-sponsored design, after all). Note that it's not even *close* to being finished yet, for a start, I have to stick a few bulkheads in place, both between the engineering deck and the cargo decks, at the very least ;)

Cockpit, crew quartering, crew messing, engineering, and all other non-pax-related facilities are located on the main deck. The cargo decks are a half-level lower, as will be shown on the final diagrams.

This version was constructed using the methodology noted by BeRKA over on Zhodani Base, who suggested using the DSL IronWorks QuickPlans PDFs in conjunction with other image manipulation packages (https://zho.berka.com/tag/deckplans/). It was a darn good idea, so I used it :)

Anyhow, the upper deck (not yet constructed) will be for the warm bodies and popsicles - I mean High and Middle passengers, and Low passengers, as well as the air/raft garage.

Comments, thoughts, opinions?
 
how will the pax access the upper deck? ramp, or airraft only, or some other way? great opportunity for the pax to have a panoramic view, put the lounge forward.

is there going to be a lower deck?

is cargo-handling an external dock-supplied event, or does the ship have inherent cargo-handling capability?
 
OK, details on the ship as follows:

Code:
Item           Description                                         Tons            Cost (MCr) 
Hull           300 tons, Streamlined                               -               13.5
Armour         Armour: 0                                           -               - 
M-Drive        Budget Thrust 2 (Energy inefficient disadvantage)   6               9 
J-Drive        Budget Jump 2 (Energy inefficient disadvantage)     20              22.5 
Power Plant    Fusion, Power 150                                   10              10
Fuel Tanks     1 J-2, 4 weeks of operation                         61              - 
Bridge         Small                                               10              0.75
Computer       Computer 10 fib/bis                                 -               0.32 
               Library/0 (Included)                               
               Manoeuvre/0 (Included)                               
               Software                                                            2.4915
                               Intellect/1                         -               1.00
                               Jump Control/2                      -               0.20
                               Library                             -               - 
                               Manoeuvre/0                         -               - 
                               Evade/1                             -               1.00
                               Intellect/2                         -               0.050
                               Expert (Pilot)/2                    -               0.010
                               Expert (Astrogator)/2               -               0.010
                               Expert (Engineer/Jump)/2            -               0.010
                               Expert (Engineer/Man)/2             -               0.010
                               Expert (Engineer/Power)/2           -               0.010
                               Expert (Engineer/Life Support)/2    -               0.010
                               Expert (Mechanic)/2                 -               0.010
                               Expert (Vacc Suit)/2                -               0.010
                               Expert (Elec/Comms)/2               -               0.010
                               Expert (Elec/Comp)/2                -               0.010
                               Expert (Elec/Sensor)/2              -               0.010
                               Expert (Elec/Remote)/2              -               0.010
                               Expert (Gunner/Turret)/2            -               0.010
                               Expert (Medic)/2                    -               0.010
                               Expert (Steward)/2                  -               0.010
                               Expert (Profession/Cook)/2          -               0.010
                               Expert (Tactics/Anti-Hijack)/2      -               0.010
                               Security (Computer)/2               -               0.020
                               Expert (Admin)/2                    -               0.010
                               Expert (Broker)/2                   -               0.010
                               Expert (Advocate)/2                 -               0.010
                               Expert (Diplomat)/2                 -               0.010
                               Expert (Investigate)/2              -               0.010
                               Translator (Zhodani)/2              -               0.0005
                               Translator (Darrian)/2              -               0.0005
                               Translator (Swordworler)/2          -               0.0005
                               Translator (Vargr)/2                -               0.0005
Sensors        Military Grade                                      2               4.1
Weapons        Fixed Mount (Triple Missile launcher) x 2           2               4.7
               Mixed Turret, Double x 2                            2               1
               Pulse Laser x 2                                     2               2
               Sandcaster x 2                                      2               0.5
Craft          Air/Raft                                            5               1.5 
Systems        Fuel Scoop                                          -               -
               Fuel Processors (60 tons/day)                       3               0.15
               Cargo Crane                                         3               3
               Loading Belt (TL12)                                 1               0.1
               Repair Drones                                       3               0.6
               Air/Raft                                                            0.25
               Air/Raft 'garage'                                   5               1.25
Staterooms     Standard x10                                        40              5 
               High x 6                                            24              3
               Luxury x 0                              
               Low Berths x 10                                     5               0.5
Common Ares    +25%                                                7               0.7 
Cargo                                                              106              -

Cargo is loadable using a loading belt and a crane, as required.

Pax board via either: Air/Raft into upper deck, lift from the ground, or boarding ramp from a port, all directly to the upper deck avoiding the main (lower) deck.

The Lower deck is split level, with the cargo spaces lower than the crew spaces, but on the same deck, if you follow (diagrams will be clearer!).

Pax spaces will be forward, yes, but not in the nose; I'm visualising them being above and behind the cockpit, which will be forward of them by necessity. There will be a panoramic passenger lounge at the forward end of the upper deck, the air/raft 'garage' will be at the aft end of the passenger (upper) deck. There will be one acess point from the main (lower) deck to the passenger (upper) deck, controlled by the anti hijack expert system and electronic locks/biometric access systems (not decided which or all, yet).
 
Class blurb is as follows:

Argeii-class 300-ton Frontier Trader, class AP Mk 1(ARP)

Produced in large numbers by General Products, the Argeii-class frontier trader is a small but efficient tramp freighter design, seen in abundance in the Domain of Deneb and neighbouring Domains under the Civilian Reserve Transport Fleet Subsidy Program.

Conceived from a specification from the CRTF, for the Imperial Navy Transport Command, using traditional and established technologies (so as to reduce cost and minimise development and build time), the type QT-1045 Specification Auxiliary Transport Project Competition culminated in two prototypes, one from General Products (ZT-1048), the other from Ling-Standard Products (ZT-1049).

The design took into account three major design requirements:
  • To be between the 200-dT and 400-dT mass classes,
  • To allow the vessel be able to return a profit during commercial operations through adequate cargo capacity, and minor passenger capability, and,
  • To allow for limited military transport cargo operations when recalled to service as part of the subsidised operating conditions of the CRTF Subsidising program.

After extensive trials and tests, the ZT-1048 from GP was selected by the Imperial Navy as the competition winner, and entered service with the Civilian Reserve Transport Fleet Subsidising program in 1050.

The ZT-1049 went on to enjoy a somewhat abbreviated commercial production run, but never really found a niche in the Merchant Service, and production ended five years later in 1055. Never the less, the ZT-1049 (renamed by LSP as the Shunkaard-class) did recoup its R&D and production costs for LSP during that short run, so the design could be said to have been profitable for LSP; It's noticeable that most of those vessels are still in service.

The ZT-1048 went on to become the type AP-1050 Argeii-class Subsidised Provincial Merchant, and is named after a prolific and industrious winged aviatic creature on Heya/Regina (Spinward Marches 2402) that gathers its nesting materials like cargo every first season. Vessels in this class are generally named after similar aviatic creatures from within the Spinward marches sector.

Control system-wise, in most military vessels, large and heavily shielded and protected computers are the norm, allowing the running and constant use of large programs in all EM threat environments. However, in civilian service, cost is a major factor, so the use of a smaller computer, and expert systems, was determined to be an optimal solution.

Still, the computer had to be suitable to be used in a quasi-military environment, with all the electro-magnetic hazards that the electronic aerospace battle environment can generate, and so a smaller model ten computer, with a hardened core and fibre-optic cable runs, was used to reduce cost.

Likewise, rather than use the massive programs that the military use (which would not have been possible, given the limited storage and processing power of model/10 computers), extensive use of LSR (Long-term Stay Resident) Expert Systems, which remain active in 'live' system memory to allow speedy access to essential software was impemented.

With regard to operational spaces, the Argeii class is arranged somewhat unusually, in that it possesses two-fore-to-aft straight-line cargo holds, designed for fast on/of-loading, or low-level cargo drop runs across military drop zones, using standard ISO 4-ton grav-chute-retarded cargo containers which, when dropped, are 'pulled' out of the rear of the vessel by re-polarising the cargo deck artificial gravity systems towards the rear of the vessel, thus effectively dropping the cargo containers out of the back of the ship.

As is now the norm in stellar travel, passenger spaces are securely separated from crew and operational spaces by the use of a separate deck for passengers, and security program-controlled access points.

The Argeii-class has helped to restore General Products reputation for producing safe and reliable ships, a reputation that took a battering ten years previously with several hull designs suffering fatal flaws in jump, jump transition, and re-entry manoeuvres, all of which can put severe stresses on a hull. The Hulls on the Argeii-class were manufactured at a new plant on Regina/Regina (Spinward Marches 1910), with the older plant being decommissioned and demolished shortly before the first production Argeii hull was laid down. The class is still in production as at 1106.

The Mark 1 (ARP) model is the most common version of this ship, and is fitted with an air/raft 'garage', as well as passenger berths.

While this ship IS marginally profitable as a mortgaged ship, it depends very much on the ship being fully-laden for every trip over its forty years projected service life. As a result, it is more than likely that any vessel of this type that might be encountered will be a subsidised vessel.
 
OK, update time.

Finally got a simple deckplans (well, floorplans) package for windows running under Wine on my linux box, so doing the deckplans just got a whole lot easier. I should have something halfway done by this evening, all being well.

I also ran the basics of the Aregeii through High Guard Shipyard 1.314, to get the CT Book 5 High Guard stats.... they came out VERY similar to the MgT figures, which was nice, and I've included them below for comparison: Note: The Air/Raft was NOT included, but even so, it won't be that far off :)

Code:
Ship: Argeii
Class: Aregeii
Type: Frontier Trader
Architect: Roger Stenning
Tech Level: 12

USP
         AP-3121221-030000-10001-0 MCr 157.832 300 Tons
Bat Bear             3     3   3   Crew: 8
Bat                  3     3   3   TL: 12

Cargo: 109 Passengers: 6 Crew Sections: 1 of 8 Low: 10 Fuel: 66 EP: 6 Agility: 1 Pulse Lasers
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel Purification

Architects Fee: MCr 1.578   Cost in Quantity: MCr 126.266


Detailed Description
  (High Guard Design)

HULL
300.000 tons standard, 4,200.000 cubic meters, Needle/Wedge Configuration

CREW
Pilot, Navigator, Engineer, Steward, Medic, 3 Gunners

ENGINEERING
Jump-2, 1G Manuever, Power plant-2, 6.000 EP, Agility 1

AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/2 Computer

HARDPOINTS
3 Hardpoints

ARMAMENT
3 Triple Mixed Turrets each with: 1 Pulse Laser (Factor-1), 1 Missile Rack (Factor-1).

DEFENCES
1 Sandcaster in each Mixed Turret, organised into 3 Batteries (Factor-3)

CRAFT
None

FUEL
66 Tons Fuel (2 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance)
On Board Fuel Scoops, On Board Fuel Purification Plant

MISCELLANEOUS
14 Staterooms, 10 Low Berths, 6 High Passengers, 10 Low Passengers, 109 Tons Cargo

USER DEFINED COMPONENTS
None

COST
MCr 159.410 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 1.578), MCr 126.266 in Quantity

CONSTRUCTION TIME
71 Weeks Singly, 57 Weeks in Quantity

COMMENTS



Aregeii Class Frontier Trader

HULL
Hull: 0.000 Td; MCr 36.000
Armour Factor-0: 0.000 Td; MCr 0.000

ENGINEERING
M-Drive Factor-1: 6.000 Td; MCr 9.000
J-Drive Factor-2: 9.000 Td; MCr 36.000
P-Plant Factor-2: 18.000 Td; MCr 54.000; +6.000 EP

FUEL
P-Fuel: 6.000 Td; MCr 0,000
J-Fuel: 60.000 Td; MCr 0.000
Scoops: 0.000 Td; MCr 0.300
Purification: 6.000 Td; MCr 0.032
L-Hyd Drop Tanks: 0.000 Td; MCr 0.000

AVIONICS
Bridge: 20.000 Td; MCr 1.500
Computer Model/2: 2.000 Td; MCr 9.000; -0 EP

WEAPONRY
3 x Mixed Turrets: 3.000 Td; MCr 4.500

SCREENS

CRAFT

ACCOMODATIONS
14.0 x Staterooms: 56.000 Td; MCr 7.000
10 x Low Berths: 5.000 Td; MCr 0.500
Cargo: 109.000 Td; MCr 0.000

USER DEFINED
 
Right, ongoing planning using the old 32-bit windoze program FloorPlan Plus 3D. It won't export worth a damn, but screenshots are good to show where I'm going with this...

This package lets me see what's on the 'floor below' by way of walls in place; this makes lining up things like stairwells, lifts (elevators) and such like a LOT easier than in several other packages, which is why I like that I've managed to get it running (after a fashion) again.

I've just about got decks 1 & 2 sorted out; I have yet to finalise deck 2, as placing the lifts has been a right PITA. Note that the bridge also includes the loadmaster's control seat, facing aft. Unavoidably, I appear to have stuck the passenger lift in the way of its view to the inboard forward port cargo door, something I'll have to remedy before moving much further forward.

The bridge also houses the ship's locker and smallarms arsenal. There's an iris valve for emergency escape, but it's NOT an airlock.

Argeii deck 1 screenshot.png


Deck 2 is the main deck; the forward section is an observation lounge for the passengers, and is accessible via two stairways to deck three, the passenger deck.

Deck 2 houses engineering, the eight crew cabins, crew lounge/mess, consumables and the rations stores.

Deck 3 will house the passenger deck, the low passenger bay, the med bay, and the air/raft 'garage'. Access to this deck is by way of either the airlocks port and starboard, the surface-access lift, or the by the air/raft. The lift also stops on deck 2, but that exit is security locked for staff only.

Argeii deck 2 screenshot.png
 
Last edited:
Pretty cool. Off handed request here, but have you or anyone else ever considered stretching the Type-S to add a pair of staterooms? Say one on either side of the corridor?

I ask this because to me it seems like there'd be more variations on various craft that what's in the rules. I probably shouldn't confess this, but I was going to try and stretch Wayne Peters' Florian scout, but got occupied with other matters.
 
Interesting. No, I hadn't. Are you talking increasing capacity while retaining the 100 ton hull, or sawing it in half, and inserting a fillet to increase tonnage and capacity? If inserting a fillet, you'd need to uprate the engines and plant to match, or lose performance, and ensure that the fuel capacity is increased as well, to match the new requirements...

This doesn't sound an easy upgrade, really...
 
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