MGT Only: 300-ton stretched refitted Free Trader
- Thread starter Redcap
- Start date
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Thorny question.I'll look at that, thanksDouble turrets for the lasers and sand alright still?
A single Pulse Laser does 2D damage, two lasers in the same turret does 2D+2. Triple turrets with Laser, Laser, Sand are not only more expensive, they use more power, hence larger power plant, hence (slightly) less cargo.
The double turret with Laser, Sand is perhaps the reasonable choice.
I would consider a Long Range upgrade on the Laser, being able to outrange the enemy can be very good.
I was thinking arcs of fire; if you put lasers all in one turret, it's masked at least 50% of the time. Stick both remaining classes of weapon, laser and sand, in double turrets on both ventral and keel (or port and starboard) turrets, and you should have 100% arc coverage. Also, if one turret gets taken out, you still have the other with both weapons at your disposal.
I'll have a look at the long range option, thanks
There is no way this ship could be mortgaged, and even maximising the amount of cargo space, using budget drives to keep the cost down, this is a pin in the **** and no mistake.
Check my figures, and let me know where you think I've stuffed up, please
Check my figures, and let me know where you think I've stuffed up, please
Code:
TL 15 Subsidised 300-ton frontier trader type AP
Item Description Tons Power Cost (MCr)
Hull 300 tons, streamlined, 120 points - -60 18
Armour Armour 0 - - -
M-Drive Budget Thrust 2 (Energy inefficient disadvantage) 4.8 -58.5 13.5
J-Drive Budget Jump 2 (Energy inefficient disadvantage) 20 -78 33.75
Power plant Fusion, TL 12, power 300 20 300 20
Fuel Tanks 4 weeks operations & one x J-2 59 - -
Bridge - 20 - 1.5
Computer Computer/10 fib/bis - - 0.16
Library/0 (Included)
Manoeuvre/0 (Included)
Software - 3.4915
Intellect/1 10 - 1.00
Jump Control/2 10 - 0.20
Evade/2 15 - 2.00
Intellect/2 - - 0.050
Expert (Pilot)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Astrogator)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Engineer/Jump)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Engineer/Man)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Engineer/Power)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Engineer/LifeSupport)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Mechanic)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Vacc Suit)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Elec/Comms)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Elec/Comp)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Elec/Sensor)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Elec/Remote)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Gunner/Turret)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Medic)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Steward)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Profession/Cook)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Tactics/Anti-Hijack)/2 - - 0.010
Security (Computer) - - 0.020
Expert (Admin)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Broker)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Advocate)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Diplomat)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Investigate)/2 - - 0.010
Translator (Zhodani) - - 0.0005
Translator (Darrian) - - 0.0005
Translator (Swordie) - - 0.0005
Sensors Military 2 2 4.1
Weapons Fixed Mount (Triple Missile launcher) x 2 - - 4.7
Mixed Turret, Double x 2 2 2 1
Pulse Laser x 2 - 8 2
Sandcaster x 2 - - 0.5
Systems Fuel Scoop - - -
Fuel Processors (60 tons/day) 3 - 0.15
Cargo Crane 3 - 3
Loading Belt (TL12) 1 1 0.1
Staterooms Standard x 7 28 - 3.5
High x 0 - - -
Luxury x 0 - - -
Low Berths x 0 - - -
Common Areas 5% 15 - 1
Cargo 87.2
Crew Pilot x 1 Salary Cr 6,000 ea Cr 6,000
Navigator x 1 Salary Cr 5,000 ea Cr 5,000
Engineer x 1 Salary Cr 4,000 ea Cr 4,000
Maintenance x 1 Salary Cr 1,000 ea Cr 1,000
Medic x 1 Salary Cr 3,000 ea Cr 3,000
Steward x 0 Salary Cr 2,000 ea Cr 0
Gunner x 0 Salary Cr 1,000 ea Cr 0
Purchase Cost (incl 10% large production discount) 98.86135
Maintenance / month 0.082384458
Life Support Cost / month 0.012
Salaries / month 0.019AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Changes marked with *.
Drives contained traces of earlier advantages.
Added Light Hull MCr -4.5.
Halved Power MCr -10 (could save a few MCr more with TL8 Reduced Size plant)
Added small bridge +10 dT cargo
Added Repair Drones -3 dT cargo
Common Areas are calculated as percentage of Stateroom space.
Recalculated Cargo, you forgot some space somewhere?
Should now be able to make a profit with a mortgage, up to kCr 65 / jump.
Drives contained traces of earlier advantages.
Added Light Hull MCr -4.5.
Halved Power MCr -10 (could save a few MCr more with TL8 Reduced Size plant)
Added small bridge +10 dT cargo
Added Repair Drones -3 dT cargo
Common Areas are calculated as percentage of Stateroom space.
Recalculated Cargo, you forgot some space somewhere?
Code:
TL 12 * Subsidised 300-ton frontier trader type AP
Item Description Tons Power Cost (MCr)
Hull * 300 tons, light , streamlined, 108 points - -60 13.5
Armour Armour 0 - - -
M-Drive * Budget Thrust 2 (Energy inefficient disadvantage) 6 -78 9
J-Drive * Budget Jump 2 (Energy inefficient disadvantage) 20 -78 22.5
Power plant * Fusion, TL 12, power 150 10 150 10
Fuel Tanks * 4 weeks operations & one x J-2 61 - -
Bridge * SMALL 10 - 0.75
Computer * Computer/10 fib/bis - - 0.32
Library/0 (Included)
Manoeuvre/0 (Included)
* Software BW - 2.4915
Intellect/1 10 - 1.00
Jump Control/2 10 - 0.20
* Evade/1 10 - 1.00
Intellect/2 - - 0.050
Expert (Pilot)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Astrogator)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Engineer/Jump)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Engineer/Man)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Engineer/Power)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Engineer/LifeSupport)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Mechanic)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Vacc Suit)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Elec/Comms)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Elec/Comp)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Elec/Sensor)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Elec/Remote)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Gunner/Turret)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Medic)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Steward)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Profession/Cook)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Tactics/Anti-Hijack)/2 - - 0.010
Security (Computer) - - 0.020
Expert (Admin)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Broker)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Advocate)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Diplomat)/2 - - 0.010
Expert (Investigate)/2 - - 0.010
Translator (Zhodani) - - 0.0005
Translator (Darrian) - - 0.0005
Translator (Swordie) - - 0.0005
Sensors Military 2 2 4.1
Weapons Fixed Mount (Triple Missile launcher) x 2 - - 4.7
Mixed Turret, Double x 2 2 2 1
Pulse Laser x 2 - 8 2
Sandcaster x 2 - - 0.5
Systems Fuel Scoop - - -
Fuel Processors (60 tons/day) 3 - 0.15
Cargo Crane 3 - 3
Loading Belt (TL12) 1 1 0.1
* Repair Drones 3 0.6
Staterooms Standard x 7 28 - 3.5
High x 0 - - -
Luxury x 0 - - -
Low Berths x 0 - - -
Common Areas * 25% 7 - 0.7
Cargo * 144
Crew Pilot x 1 Salary Cr 6,000 ea Cr 6,000
Navigator x 1 Salary Cr 5,000 ea Cr 5,000
Engineer x 1 Salary Cr 4,000 ea Cr 4,000
Maintenance x 1 Salary Cr 1,000 ea Cr 1,000
Medic x 1 Salary Cr 3,000 ea Cr 3,000
Steward x 0 Salary Cr 2,000 ea Cr 0
Gunner x 0 Salary Cr 1,000 ea Cr 0
Purchase Cost (incl 10% large production discount) * Base MCr 78.9 71.0
Maintenance / month 0.0059
Life Support Cost / month 0.012
Salaries / month 0.019Should now be able to make a profit with a mortgage, up to kCr 65 / jump.
Thanks
Looking at the changes, so I can understand the process better,
OK, now, if I nick space for 10 low berths and five passenger cabins, will that hurt the bottom line, do you think?
Looking at the changes, so I can understand the process better,
- What's the pros and cons balance on using a light hull rather than a standard one?
- I think I know, but why cut the power in half?
- what did I miss with the budget drives?
- A small bridge? If they're spending their entire shifts in there, it's going to be their office, so a bit of space would be preferable, not only for a less claustrophobic environment, but also for ease of access and egress?
- The cost of the computer was wrong in mine? Whoops!
o: - Why Evade 1 and not 2? Bandwidth?
- Ah. I forgot Huey, Dewey and Louie (repair drones), did I? Clumsy of me!
- Common area increase? Nice, but... um... why?
- I LIKE the cargo increase
OK, now, if I nick space for 10 low berths and five passenger cabins, will that hurt the bottom line, do you think?
Y'know, I've just been running the numbers on this, and it's a lot better than you thought, I think. Bear in mind this will now be a subsidised frontier trader, rather than a mortgaged one, and on that basis, it's VERY profitable on cargo alone, as follows:
Unless I made a mistake somewhere?
Hold the ruddy phone.
Annual Maintenance costs run per month, at the following rate (MgT Core Rules, pp145): "0.1% of purchase price, divided by 12" For this ship, that should work out at (78,900,000 x 0.1)/12 = Cr 657,500 per month?! WHAT?!
Is there an errata I've missed on this? How the heck can ANY ship be profitable on that equation?!
Code:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Income/expenditure per month
Income (Cargo fees based on two jump-2 per month) Cr 460,800
Expenditure (maintenance, salaries, life support) Cr 36,900
Fuel, refined, at combined 92 tons/month Cr 46,000
(Jump fuel: 26 tons fuel/jump-2 = 52 tons fuel / month)
(Power Plant fuel: 10 tons fuel/week = 40 tons fuel / month)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SUBTOTAL: Cr 414,800
Less Susistence fee to home organisation/govt office of 50% gross/month Cr 202,400
=======================================================================================================
Bottom line profit per month on standard route at full capacity: Cr 202,400
=======================================================================================================
ANNUAL PROFIT USING ALLOCATED STANDARD ROUTING Cr 2,428,800
=======================================================================================================Unless I made a mistake somewhere?
Hold the ruddy phone.
Annual Maintenance costs run per month, at the following rate (MgT Core Rules, pp145): "0.1% of purchase price, divided by 12" For this ship, that should work out at (78,900,000 x 0.1)/12 = Cr 657,500 per month?! WHAT?!
Is there an errata I've missed on this? How the heck can ANY ship be profitable on that equation?!
Last edited:
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
A light hull is cheaper. You lose some hull points, but you can make the ship bigger and get them back for the same price, but with more payload. Warships will not use light hulls.
You don't need it. You save MCr 10 and 10 dT, that is a large part of your profit margin.
You based them on the High Tech drives, without removing the High Tech effects.
E.g. the Jump drive is 5 dT + 5% = 5 + 15 = 20 dT, the price is 20 dT × 1.5 × 75% [budget] = MCr 22.5
A regular bridge is better, but you save 10 dT. 10 dT more cargo is kCr 16 in revenue every jump or kCr 400 / year. We have to pay for the weapons somehow.
Base kCr 160, but doubled for bis&fib.The cost of the computer was wrong in mine? Whoops!
Yes, the computer has BW 10, Evade/2 requires BW 15 to run.
Well, they are not absolutely necessary, but if you want a rugged wilderness ship they fit?
I decreased it from 15 dT to 7 dT. Not 5% of the ship, but 25% of the staterooms.
I think you had missed something?I LIKE the cargo increase
Low and Mid passengers only increase revenue potential slightly, but they will make it easier to fill the ship. High passengers increase the profit.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Subsidies are better.
I do not like your fuel numbers. Each jump takes 60 dT. Each two weeks takes 0.5 dT power plant fuel.
All starports should sell unrefined fuel and you have a purifier. Buy unrefined.
The subsidiser takes 50% of all revenue, not 50% of the profit.
Monthly:
Freight: kCr 230 × 25 / 12 = kCr 480
Subsidy payment: kCr 480 / 2 = kCr -240
Costs: ~kCr -30
Profit potential: kCr 210 / month or MCr 2.5 / year.
Note that the subsidising agency wants systems served that would otherwise not be served, probably unprofitable routes. You are stuck with those routes most of the time.
Last post first - yeah, that's why I separated the fuel figures off the regular deficits, to make it easier to ID the costs.
However, I noticed something else, and while I was editing, you posted. here it is again:
Annual Maintenance costs run per month, at the following rate (MgT Core Rules, pp145): "0.1% of purchase price, divided by 12" For this ship, that should work out at (78,900,000 x 0.1)/12 = Cr 657,500 per month?! WHAT?!
Is there an errata I've missed on this? How the heck can ANY ship be profitable on that equation?!
The 0.1% purchase cost / 12 HAS to be wrong, surely?
On the other things regarding the changed specs - yep, follow, thanks
However, I noticed something else, and while I was editing, you posted. here it is again:
Annual Maintenance costs run per month, at the following rate (MgT Core Rules, pp145): "0.1% of purchase price, divided by 12" For this ship, that should work out at (78,900,000 x 0.1)/12 = Cr 657,500 per month?! WHAT?!
Is there an errata I've missed on this? How the heck can ANY ship be profitable on that equation?!
The 0.1% purchase cost / 12 HAS to be wrong, surely?
On the other things regarding the changed specs - yep, follow, thanks
Not wrong. Multiply by .001, not .1
In CT and MgT1e (and GT) it is 0.1%, which is 0.001. 10% is 0.1. Remember that percent is per 100; you divide by 100 to multiply or divide with a percentage.
CRAFT moment!
yep :rofl:
Anyhow, FINAL figures for the passenger-carrying ship are now in, carrying six high (or mid, or combo), and ten low, plus cargo, it's quite impressive on the subsidised figures, and only slightly less so for mortgaged ones. I think, barring the addition of an air/raft or similar, if the sums are right, this is the version I'll go for.
I've had to upload this one as a text file, as the forum threw a fit on the amount of text for this one
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Looking good.
Fuel cost is off, you need 60 dT / jump + 0.5 dT / 2 weeks = 60.5 dT × 25 / 12 = 126 dT / month.
126 dT unrefined fuel costs 126 × Cr 100 = Cr 12,600.
Subsidy fee is 50% of actual total revenue or Cr 262,600 (if the ship is full every time).
Fuel cost is off, you need 60 dT / jump + 0.5 dT / 2 weeks = 60.5 dT × 25 / 12 = 126 dT / month.
126 dT unrefined fuel costs 126 × Cr 100 = Cr 12,600.
Subsidy fee is 50% of actual total revenue or Cr 262,600 (if the ship is full every time).
Thanks
OK, I'll fix the fuel figures, but I'll keep to the refined fuel cost, as it shows the highest expenditure example on a fully-loaded trading month; most players tend to be clued up on skimming and unrefined fuel most times anyhow, and if you let them do the maths and make the choices, they tend to come out reasonably ahead most of the time, anyhow
Although...
While agreeing I mucked that up, and here's the contentious non-canon bit, shouldn't it be 60 dT / jump + 0.5 dT / 2 weeks = 60.5 dT × 2 per four week standard imperial month (there being 13 x 4-week months in the Imperial year) = 121dT fuel/month?
Anyhow, canon-wise, I'll fix those figures, and with that in mind, and nothing else substantially wrong, I'll start working on the deck plans, then.
As I'm working for the next seven days (late shift rota, five days worked per calender week, next pair of days off in the middle of the next calendar week!), responses and follow-ups might be a tad slow
Thanks for all the help and advice thus far, you guys rock
OK, I'll fix the fuel figures, but I'll keep to the refined fuel cost, as it shows the highest expenditure example on a fully-loaded trading month; most players tend to be clued up on skimming and unrefined fuel most times anyhow, and if you let them do the maths and make the choices, they tend to come out reasonably ahead most of the time, anyhow
Although...
While agreeing I mucked that up, and here's the contentious non-canon bit, shouldn't it be 60 dT / jump + 0.5 dT / 2 weeks = 60.5 dT × 2 per four week standard imperial month (there being 13 x 4-week months in the Imperial year) = 121dT fuel/month?
Anyhow, canon-wise, I'll fix those figures, and with that in mind, and nothing else substantially wrong, I'll start working on the deck plans, then.
As I'm working for the next seven days (late shift rota, five days worked per calender week, next pair of days off in the middle of the next calendar week!), responses and follow-ups might be a tad slow
Thanks for all the help and advice thus far, you guys rock
Last edited:
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
I may be wrong, but since mortgages have always been 12 months / year, I have always used 12 months per year for costs.
It's a good question. We all use "see you next month", but here, IRL, it's a movable feast depending on which mo th you are, might be four weeks, five weeks, you get the idea. But, with the 3i, it's not specified. Since most think of a month to be four weeks in the main, why not have a notional 13-week month?
Imperial Calender link here: http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Imperial_calendar
Just a mild thought, while I was getting ready for work. Have a fun day, all
Imperial Calender link here: http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Imperial_calendar
Just a mild thought, while I was getting ready for work. Have a fun day, all
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