MGT Only: 300-ton stretched refitted Free Trader

[flykiller]

I think it's nonviable...

heh. and you're assuming full pax/cargo loads with each run.

maybe you can add a broker and do speculation trade.

 

[Redcap]

Yeah. Pooh, and other words. Back to the gruddam drawing board *mutter mutter wibble burble clunk* :nonono:

 

[flykiller]

Back to the gruddam drawing board

actually, there have been many comments over the years about how the lbb2 trade system is intended, not to work, but to force the pc's into whatever nefarious adventures the referee has in mind. to make the system "work" you'll have to ignore the book and cut construction costs or (or "and") raise cargo rates.

 

[Redcap]

actually, there have been many comments over the years about how the lbb2 trade system is intended, not to work, but to force the pc's into whatever nefarious adventures the referee has in mind. to make the system "work" you'll have to ignore the book and cut construction costs or (or "and") raise cargo rates.

Or, use another off-the-shelf design. I just had an idle look through my copy of MgT Supplement 10 "Merchants And Cruisers", pp85-86, "Rhapsody Class Merchant Trader" I don't like the deck plans, but the design figures seem solid enough, and the economics look reasonable. Add in a few passenger staterooms, and it's actually a good ship for versatile trading and adventuring, I think.

Oh, and it's a 300dT hull

I'll run this through the sheets.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

OK, final CT Book 2 design for the 400-dT Type AP Frontier Trader

Ship: Subsidised Frontier Trader
Class: TBD
Type: AP
Architect: Roger Stenning
Tech Level: 13

USP
         AP-4122221-030000-20002-0 MCr 197.670 400 Tons
Bat Bear             2     2   2   Crew: 9
Bat                  2     2   2   TL: 13

That is a LBB5 design.

You can save significant money using LBB2 drives.
You have chosen the most expensive configuration available, Close config halves the cost of the hull.

Without the Launch you can get the price down to MCr 128, and it will be profitable.

You can build a small 10 dT Utility Boat for MCr ~6, that might be possible to squeeze in.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Cool. Did a spreadsheet do this (if so, which one?), or did you work it up yourself?

It's a standard block in my ship design spreadsheets since the 80s. It's the benchmark for commercial designs.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Outgoings Per month

Item			     Book Monthly Cost             Actual Cost
=======================================================================
Mortgage                     Varies on ship                Cr   823,625

Life Support                 Cr1000 per stateroom,         Cr    15,000
                             Cr3000 for double occupancy,  .
                             Cr100 per low berth,          Cr     1,000
                             Cr1000 per person             Cr    25,000

Fuel                         Cr500 per refined ton,        Cr    88,000
                             Cr100 per unrefined ton       Cr    16,800

Repairs and Maintenance      0.1% of purchase price,
                             divided by 12                 Cr 1,482,525

Salary: Pilot                Cr6000                        Cr     6,000
Salary: Astrogator           Cr5000                        Cr     5,000
Salary: Engineer             Cr4000                        Cr     4,000
Salary: Second Engineer      -                             Cr     3,500
Salary: Medic                Cr3000                        Cr     3,000
Salary: Boat Pilot / Gunner  -                             Cr     2,500
Salary: Steward              Cr2000                        -
Salary: Steward / Gunner     -                             Cr     2,500                        
Salary: Gunner               Cr1000                        -

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Total outgoings/month                                      Cr 2,462,450
=======================================================================

Full capacity/Occupancy revenue per month:

150 dT cargo                 Cr  1,600 / J-2               Cr   480,000
4 x High pax                 Cr 12,000 / J-2               Cr    96,000
4 x Mid Pax                  Cr  9,000 / J-2               Cr    72,000
10 x Low Pax                 Cr  1,300 / J-2               Cr    26,000

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Total revenue incoming / month                             Cr   674,000
=======================================================================
DEFICIT:                                                   Cr 1,788,450

* One months income/outgoings based on two jump-2 per standard month
  using refined fuel only.

Life Support is kCr 1 for each person not in Low, so it should be kCr 15, not 25.

You have a fuel processor, only buy unrefined fuel. (Or skim from the nearest lake.)

Maintenance cost is far too high, should be Cr 16,472.5.

There is 12 months of cost, but you can commonly jump 25 times / year, so you should have slightly more revenue.


A MgT2 ship will be cheaper, hence will have better profitability.

 

[flykiller]

Close config halves the cost of the hull.

without a streamlined hull he won't be able to handle pax/cargo ground-side.

 

[Redcap]

OK, I'm going to answer the above in no particular order, as I'm currently irritated as *** over these damned books that MgT can't seem to word in plain ruddy English

First off, and related to the immediate foregoing, how on Gods Green Earth do you determine WHICH darn computer you need to run a particular jump number? It's all well and god saying that a particular model of computer has so and so processing power, but unless you're told what processing power is required for a particular level of jump, that's about as much use as a roof rack on a druddam helicopter :rant: I've looked in BOTH 2ed books, the core rules, and HG, and I simply CANNOT find the answer. For this design to work for convention use (TravConUK '18 next year), it has to conform to the latest rules set, which are currently MgT2ed/MgT HG2ed. And they are so appallingly badly laid out and worded, and have NO index ffs, it's a wonder you can find anything in the darn books. It's atrocious

Right. Moving on...

Flykiller: Yeah, LBB2 carrots and sticks are well known, but this'll be to MgT levels of incomprehensible gobbledegook, dammit. What on EARTH was on their minds when they fired off a second edition, when the first was reasonably good enough in the first place (barring the missing bits, and typos, and errata) and upheld the spirit of the LBBs to boot?! GAGH!

ahem.

Yes, the last couple of designs HAVE been LBB CT-HG designsnot LBB2 ones. Trypo. If Mg can do that, so can I. .

I also said that I have software for that (CT book 5-compliant), so was using it to prototype out the initial ideas, before going to MgT standards to finalise the design completely.

AnotherDilbert: Close config may half the cost of the hull, but it's not aerodynamic, and thus cannot make it to the surface of a planet: Needle/wedge is therefore required (and as an aside, the adventure in which this ship will be used, requires the PCs make planetfall in their ship at least once, so there's another reason for that config).

We've gone into ships boat versus air/rafts etc earlier. Thus my personal choice is 10-ton ships boat if > 400dT, or an air/raft if < 300dT.

Noted on the maintenance costs, how the hell did I get that wrong?!

Noted on the life support costs, thanks, missed that.

On Fuel - there are places where wilderness refuelling is not possible or permissible. Do figures for a worst case scenario, and the rest should be gravy. Although I do take the point.

I also take the point regarding the differing revenue/expenditure periods over the course of a year, too.

Is there a copy of your spreadsheet out there in the wild that I can nick?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

m1 would give you 24 dtons more to work with. or mmm/sss turrets would allow better offense and defense and permit agility 2.

M-1 only saves 12 dT, unless you use LBB2 drives in which case it saves 4 dT.

Two MMS turrets will give you 4 batteries f-2 to attack with and two batteries f-3 to defend with, instead of one each.

 

[Redcap]

M-1 only saves 12 dT, unless you use LBB2 drives in which case it saves 4 dT.

Justifications/rationalé:
J-2 - frontier, loads of places more than J-1 away.
M-2 - makes it easier to run away from trouble, esp when you're in the interstellar *sound of Ukulele* boondocks...!

Two MMS turrets will give you 4 batteries f-2 to attack with and two batteries f-3 to defend with, instead of one each.

MMS - you mean double or triple turrets, I take it? MMS I assume to mean Multi Mount System?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

First off, and related to the immediate foregoing, how on Gods Green Earth do you determine WHICH darn computer you need to run a particular jump number?

You need bandwidth 5 for each parsec, so m/5 for J-1, m/10 for J-2, and m/30 for J-6. A bis computer can handle an extra Pc. That's it.

AnotherDilbert: Close config may half the cost of the hull, but it's not aerodynamic, and thus cannot make it to the surface of a planet: Needle/wedge is therefore required (and as an aside, the adventure in which this ship will be used, requires the PCs make planetfall in their ship at least once, so there's another reason for that config).

You need streamlining, not Needle. Flattened sphere is also streamlined, but cheaper. In CT that is...

In MgT even partially streamlined ships can land.

 

[flykiller]

M-1 only saves 12 dT

... yep. can't believe I screwed that up.

MMS I assume to mean Multi Mount System?

no, he means two triple turrets, six racks total, with one missle rack (factor 2) plus one missile rack (factor 2) plus another missile rack (factor 2) plus another missile rack (factor 2) plus one sandcaster rack (factor 3) plus one sandcaster rack (factor 3). which I wouldn't allow, but that's up to you.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

MMS - you mean double or triple turrets, I take it? MMS I assume to mean Multi Mount System?

I meant Missile, Missile, Sandcaster.

 

[Redcap]

You need bandwidth 5 for each parsec, so m/5 for J-1, m/10 for J-2, and m/30 for J-6. A bis computer can handle an extra Pc. That's it.

Thanks. I couldn't find that anywhere. Where is it in the rules?

You need streamlining, not Needle. Flattened sphere is also streamlined, but cheaper. In CT that is...

In CT, yeah, but let's avoid flattened spheres, too many K'Kree connotations...

In MgT even partially streamlined ships can land.

Ye gods. Well, makes a skewed kind of sense, I suppose. Thanks.

 

[Redcap]

no, he means two triple turrets, six racks total, with one missle rack (factor 2) plus one missile rack (factor 2) plus another missile rack (factor 2) plus another missile rack (factor 2) plus one sandcaster rack (factor 3) plus one sandcaster rack (factor 3). which I wouldn't allow, but that's up to you.

I just went cross-eyed trying to follow the imagery of that one o:

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Is there a copy of your spreadsheet out there in the wild that I can nick?

It's not complete and not user-friendly. It requires some modification sometimes, such as Advantages. I don't really want to confuse you with it...

 

[Redcap]

I meant Missile, Missile, Sandcaster.

Right, k, follow. Back in the CT days, Missile, Sand, and a beam laser meant that you could carry on firing if you ran out of missiles and still had power. I've continued that tradition over the versions, and it seemed to work out well enough

 

[Redcap]

It's not complete and not user-friendly. It requires some modification sometimes, such as Advantages. I don't really want to confuse you with it...

Hell, what's more confusion to my about-to-explode noggin at this point? I do, however, take the point, and understand completely

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Thanks. I couldn't find that anywhere. Where is it in the rules?

Core, p151, Software table.