OTU Only: A Funny Thing Happened on the Way from Collace

[mike wightman]

Actually there is something in canon about using drop tanks and longer ranged xboats, this is setting specific canon from JTAS 2 TAS News:

REGINA/REGINA (0310-A788899-A). Date: 101-1105
Close on the heels of the joint announcement by General Shipyards and
Tukera Lines that L-Hyd drop tanks would soon be manufactured in the Regina
subsector, came word by express boat from the Imperial core that a decision has
been made to deploy Jump-6 L-Hyd drop tank express boats on all major express
routes. Initial feasibility studies indicate that such a system could average jump5.5
per week by executing maximum jumps where possible, and leaving current xboat
units to disseminate information between the new major relay points. The system
is expected to cut communication time to the lmperial hub to under 25 weeks.
The Initial System Deployment Schedule indicates that the Regina subsector can
expect to be fully integrated into the network within a decade.

 

[Grav_Moped]

There is nothing explicit in canon (or otherwise) about using the mechanics of Drop Tanks to operate a Jump Mothership or Jump Tender in this way, probably because Drop Tanks themselves are by design expendable, and no one ever considers other applications.

I have, for example, at least one unstreamlined B2 starship operating as a fighter carrier that has its fuel shuttle fitted with Drop Tank couplings so that the shuttle's tankage becomes part of the starship's hard tankage when the shuttle is berthed; this allows for a full load of Jump fuel to be available despite the fact that the starship's internal tanks are several dtons shy in and of themselves.

That's quite plausible as a concept.

I can't say I really like the drop tank rule (as written) in the first place -- I'd rather see them carried through the Jump and discarded afterwards. But, the original intent wasn't to let you fit J4 into 100Td or J6 into 200Td, it was so fleets in a fleet-combat (mini?)game could jump into a system and back out again without having to calculate reduced Jump rating or fuel use for each ship individually. Then along came the Gazelle re-interpretation then TCS and we're off to the races.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

TCS only allows jump fuel in very specific types of tanks, among them drop tanks but not other ships.

By RAW other ships are not drop tanks, and drop tanks can only be used once.


Edit: Sorry, already quoted...

 

[Grav_Moped]

There is nothing explicit in canon (or otherwise) about using the mechanics of Drop Tanks to operate a Jump Mothership or Jump Tender in this way, probably because Drop Tanks themselves are by design expendable, and no one ever considers other applications.

I have, for example, at least one unstreamlined B2 starship operating as a fighter carrier that has its fuel shuttle fitted with Drop Tank couplings so that the shuttle's tankage becomes part of the starship's hard tankage when the shuttle is berthed; this allows for a full load of Jump fuel to be available despite the fact that the starship's internal tanks are several dtons shy in and of themselves.

That's a fair rules exploit.

I don't like the drop tank rules as written -- I'd prefer the tanks be carried through Jump and discarded afterwards. But, when it was first written, the drop tank rule wasn't meant to allow this:

Actually there is something in canon about using drop tanks and longer ranged xboats, this is setting specific canon from JTAS 2 TAS News:
<blockquote about JTAS announcing J6 droptank XBoats lost in the forum reply routine>

It was meant to allow fleets to jump into a system with a full Jump fuel load on arrival, so they could get back out again without having to calculate reduced Jump capability from drop tanks for each ship individually.
Gazelle, TCS, HG '80, and the JTAS blurb came later.

 

[Grav_Moped]

TCS only allows jump fuel in very specific types of tanks, among them drop tanks but not other ships.

By RAW other ships are not drop tanks, and drop tanks can only be used once.


Edit: Sorry, already quoted...

Replace tender with a 100TD Scout/Courier with a 40Td drop tank installed. The tank has two sets of fittings. One connects to the Type S (they're that ship's drop tanks). The other gets temporarily connected to the XBoat (and while connected, they're the XBoat's drop tanks).


Just before the XBoat jumps, the Scout runs off with the tanks.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

It was meant to allow fleets to jump into a system with a full Jump fuel load on arrival, so they could get back out again without having to calculate reduced Jump capability from drop tanks for each ship individually.

Doesn't sound like that was the intent:

L-Hyd Tanks: Disposable fuel tanks which are fitted outside the ship, and drop away before jump. The result is more interior space available for cargo and passengers.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Replace tender with a 100TD Scout/Courier with a 40Td drop tank installed. The tank has two sets of fittings. One connects to the Type S (they're that ship's drop tanks). The other gets temporarily connected to the XBoat (and while connected, they're the XBoat's drop tanks).

No need for an extra ship, tender can supply the drop tank, but:

Such tanks must be replaced each time they are used, ...

Drop tanks can't reused (in CT at least).

 

[Grav_Moped]

Replace tender with a 100TD Scout/Courier with a 40Td drop tank installed. The tank has two sets of fittings. One connects to the Type S (they're that ship's drop tanks). The other gets temporarily connected to the XBoat (and while connected, they're the XBoat's drop tanks).


Just before the XBoat jumps, the Scout runs off with the tanks.

And in Boomslang's example, the drop tanks can be carried internally as a small craft (if the fighter carrier was 1000Td or smaller) at their own tonnage. Which is kind of the point.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

And in Boomslang's example, the drop tanks can be carried internally as a small craft (if the fighter carrier was 1000Td or smaller) at their own tonnage.

Except that it is a house-rule. Sadly fuel in fuel shuttles may not be used by the drives directly according to RAW.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Doesn't sound like that was the intent:

Originally Posted by LBB5'79. p32
L-Hyd Tanks: Disposable fuel tanks which are fitted outside the ship, and drop away before jump. The result is more interior space available for cargo and passengers.

That was the intent as of Book 5. Weren't they imported from one of the fleet battle games? (Imperium or FFW)?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

That was the intent as of Book 5.

LBB5, as I quoted, talks about more space for cargo and passengers, not battle fleets.

Weren't they imported from one of the fleet battle games? (Imperium or FFW)?

Not as far as I know, they are not used in neither Imperium nor FFW. FFW is after LBB5.

I believe LBB5 is the original source.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Except that it is a house-rule. Sadly fuel in fuel shuttles may not be used by the drives directly according to RAW.

Wait a second.

Is there anything saying drop tanks can't be carried internally and not ejected? In that configuration, they're internal demountable tanks (which HG doesn't discuss).

Seriously. Put a set of drop tanks into a freighter's cargo hold, and assume normal blocking and bracing as for ordinary cargo. Connect them to the main fuel tanks using drop tank fittings. By what mechanism do they get destroyed when the fuel is expended?

Oh, right. The rules say so.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Is there anything saying drop tanks can't be carried internally and not ejected? In that configuration, they're internal demountable tanks (which HG doesn't discuss).

Interior demountable tanks may be used so...

L-Hyd Tanks: Disposable fuel tanks which are fitted outside the ship,

Drop tanks are only destroyed when dropped, you can still jump with them, just like exterior demountable tanks (as the Gazelle demonstrates).

 

[Grav_Moped]

Internal demountable tanks are TCS and Beltstrike, not LBB5.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Internal demountable tanks are TCS and Beltstrike, not LBB5.

Anyhow. If you can have internal demountable tanks (or internal non-expended drop tanks), those tanks can then be carried inside Boomslang's tanker with one set of fittings connected to the tanker internally, and one set facing outward to connect to the fighter carrier.

You might need to buy multiple sets of fittings depending on how picky you wanted to be about it, but it's not breaking rules. This presumes the tanker has its own four-week supply of powerplant fuel left over after providing the carrying ship with the additional fuel needed to Jump.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Internal demountable tanks are TCS and Beltstrike, not LBB5.

Yes, they are in TCS, specifically the chapter Rules and Rulings that specifically clarifies and expands on LBB5 rules.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Anyhow. If you can have internal demountable tanks (or internal non-expended drop tanks), those tanks can then be carried inside Boomslang's tanker with one set of fittings connected to the tanker internally, and one set facing outward to connect to the fighter carrier.

A tanker may have as much internal tanks as it likes, but we can still not use fuel from other ship to jump. We must first transfer the fuel to tanks on the jumping ship, or at least have enough tanks in/on the jumping ship.

Read TCS, p13. Or house-rule.

 

[Condottiere]

Expend some hull percentage to install drop tank plumbing, and reconfigure the fuel shuttles accordingly.

If you still want to explosively bolt them off while going down the rabbit hole, normal damage may still occur on all fuel shuttle ship systems.

 

[Grav_Moped]

A tanker may have as much internal tanks as it likes, but we can still not use fuel from other ship to jump. We must first transfer the fuel to tanks on the jumping ship, or at least have enough tanks in/on the jumping ship.

Read TCS, p13. Or house-rule.

The internal tanks in the tanker are drop tanks that just happen to be shaped exactly like the inside of the fuel tank of the tanker*. Drop tanks can deliver their fuel to the Jump Drive in time, while internal demountable tanks cannot.

The workaround to make it "make sense" is to have the dual-use tankage cost like drop tanks rather than being "free" (that is, assumed in hull cost). The extra cost is for whatever it is that makes drop tanks special.



*alternatively, the tanker has a cargo hold that's exactly the shape of a drop tank, whatever that shape happens to be, and the tanker was built around it.

 

[Grav_Moped]

The way to deal with using a tanker as a tender under drop tank rules isn't to house-rule it, it's to role-play it.

Count down the race between the fuel transfer rate and the Jump Drive capacitor charge state (drama!).
Roll for possible failure of the tender's powerplant or maneuver drive (extremely unlikely, of course). Roll to see if the pilot screwed up the timing or direction of the getaway (also extremely unlikely). Roll to see if anything breaks on separation (good design means whatever breaks will be an easy fix).