Arba/Lunion/Spinward Marches Land Grab

[trader jim]

here that every one....PLOP101....has granted me rights to establish many diverse enterprises on Arba...and other areas of the System.....it will soon blossom into a true system of importance....I will be "donating" and "investing"
MANY, MANY TRILLIONS of credits for "improvments"
including state of the art land Transpotation Systems....I will be "working" directly with and for PLOP101 in all matters concerning this PROJECT....he will have FINAL say so on all construction questions....his decisions will be FINAL....he will retain creative controll and credit.... several posts to follow ...stay tuned...

 

[GBoyett]

Originally posted by trader jim:
here that every one....PLOP101....has granted me rights to establish many diverse enterprises on Arba...and other areas of the System.....it will soon blossom into a true system of importance....I will be "donating" and "investing"
MANY, MANY TRILLIONS of credits for "improvments"
including state of the art land Transpotation Systems....I will be "working" directly with and for PLOP101 in all matters concerning this PROJECT....he will have FINAL say so on all construction questions....his decisions will be FINAL....he will retain creative controll and credit.... several posts to follow ...stay tuned...

Hmmm something to invest the 1tcr+ my company recently acquired.

The D'BRE Corporation is hereby submit a Writ of Intent that we are looking into the development of the Arba system.

George
Token Holder
D'BRE Corporation

[Internal Memo]
To: Matt, 1st Holder; Robert, 2nd Holder
Subject: Imperial Market Development
Reference: Arba System

Recent RecRger and DMF intel regarding the Bunny Rebellion has uncovered a potentional boon in our proposed development into the Spinward Marches. Our agents have discovered the slightly underdeveloped Arba system is open for further development.

Arba is located where the Vilis, Lanth, Sword Worlds, and Lunion Subsectors meet. It is within 6 parsecs of several major Imperial, and the Sword Worlds.

I purpose we establish a trade center on Arba. This can become the center for any further development into the Spinward Marches.

 

[plop101]

If I ever figure out how to post scanned material here, I'll post up my map of Arba, my system map, and the 6 parsec map I made. Mostly pencil and paper, I'm still trying to figure computers out.

Since TJ wants to develop the Mag-Lev, here are some particulars...
distance from downport to Nimii Shis Outpost 10km.
Rail should have 1 turn to the left.
Looking South from North:
Downport
I
I
I
I<Maglev Line
I
I
L-----Nimii Shis Outpost

 

[GBoyett]

Originally posted by plop101:
If I ever figure out how to post scanned material here, I'll post up my map of Arba, my system map, and the 6 parsec map I made. Mostly pencil and paper, I'm still trying to figure computers out.

If you want to post images here you will need to place the image on another and reference it with the image tag.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Plop 101, in light of recent activity on Arba, SHADIS Corp. of Foreven Sector would like to open some investments with their usual inroads into the LSP & Sternmetal partners.

And Fulacin Fast Freight Express out of Fulacin is interested in cutting Arba into their run from Rhylanor to Darrian Space.

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by plop101:
Arba Landgrab, Pt5.
The first permenant residents were a group of prospectors from Sacnoth, who arrived in -187. They did not land on Arba itself; rather, they set up a small refueling and mining station in Hagar's belt.This installation would eventually form the basis of the Sword World claim to the Arba system.

An outpost like that would be most unlikely to survive the aftermath of the War of the First Rebellion. OTOH, if it was rich enough to attract miners during the Sacnoth Dominate, it would propably attract miners from Dyrnwyn after they get back among the stars around the beginning of the 1st Century. On the gripping hand, the settlement map of the Spinward Marches show that it was uninhabited in 300.

It was a very tiny claim, however; when the first Imperial Scouts arrived in Arba in 112...

While Arba is off to one side from the direct route from Deneb to the Sword Worlds and might easily have been skipped by the first Scout expedition (the one that contacted the Sword Worlds in 53), the initial exploration of the Marches were completed by 100 [The Traveller Book, p. 149]. A date between 60 and 100 would fit better.

After years of reports from Imperial traders...

Do traders really visit an out-of-the-way mining outpost much? And do the Scouts really need reports from traders to survey a system?

...the Scout Service sent another expedition to Arba, this coinciding with the undertaking of the First Survey.[/QOUTE]

Around 300, then. At that time Arba did not have any settlers. Of course, one might argue that an outpost is not a settlement.

The commander of the IISS survey team, a rather flamboyant character by the name of "Torack the Searcher", recognizing both the astropolitical significance of the Arba system...

Which is?

...and confirming the existence of the Sacnoth station, immediately laid claim to the system by planting the Imperial flag on Arba and Ibrahim. The legal claim would thus rest on the Imperiums control of the main planet in the systems life zone [Arba] and the largest planet in the system [Ibrahim].

There may or may not be a Sword World outpost in the Arba system in 300, but it would probably not be a Sacnoth outpost. The Sword Worlds are split into multiple polities at this time; the most likely owner of such an outpost is the polity consisting of Dyrnwyn, Durendal, and Hofud.

Does the Imperium do much flag-planting on its own account? I've always seen Imperial expansion more as individual worlds planting colonies and the colonies eventually growing into member worlds. And note the in 400 Arba is settled, but specifically not a member of the Imperium.

Hans

 

[GBoyett]

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
Plop 101, in light of recent activity on Arba, SHADIS Corp. of Foreven Sector would like to open some investments with their usual inroads into the LSP & Sternmetal partners.

And Fulacin Fast Freight Express out of Fulacin is interested in cutting Arba into their run from Rhylanor to Darrian Space.

Read one of the latest TNS entries in the Bunny Rebellion topic.

Arba will soon become a settled system.

 

[plop101]

Rancke offers constructive criticism:

An outpost like that would be most unlikely to survive the aftermath of
the War of the First Rebellion. OTOH, if it was rich enough to attract
miners during the Sacnoth Dominate, it would propably attract miners
from Dyrnwyn after they get back among the stars around the beginning
of the 1st Century. On the gripping hand, the settlement map of the
Spinward Marches show that it was uninhabited in 300.

The key phrase there is "rich enough". Arba is not Glisten. There's just enough there
to interest a few miners, but not enough for full fledged activity. We are talking about
a population that is under 1,000 folks, system wide. Thats not likely to attract a whole
lot of attention.

"We not part of the Empire or the Mining Guild."--Lando

While Arba is off to one side from the direct route from Deneb to the
Sword Worlds and might easily have been skipped by the first Scout
expedition (the one that contacted the Sword Worlds in 53), the initial
exploration of the Marches were completed by 100 [The Traveller Book,
p. 149]. A date between 60 and 100 would fit better.

Actually, when this was first posted on the TML, I had people telling me the exact opposite;
that the Scouts wouldn't show up until much later [300's-400's]. I suppose its a matter of taste.

Do traders really visit an out-of-the-way mining outpost much? And do
the Scouts really need reports from traders to survey a system?

As to the former, maybe once or twice a year. As to the later, you betchya. Scouts will get their hands on any information they can find, whether its with their own resources or someone elses. They'd be stupid not to.

The commander of the IISS survey team, a rather
flamboyant character by the name of "Torack the
Searcher", recognizing both the astropolitical significance
of the Arba system...

Which is?

Arba lies on the most direct route from the Sword Worlds to Lanth; it and Tavonni are key J2 junctions.

There may or may not be a Sword World outpost in the Arba system in
300, but it would probably not be a Sacnoth outpost. The Sword Worlds
are split into multiple polities at this time; the most likely owner of such
an outpost is the polity consisting of Dyrnwyn, Durendal, and Hofud.

Not even by non governmental organizations? My notion of the 'Sacnoth' outpost was that it was run by civilians, not by the Sacnoth government itself.

I'm glad that your pointing these items out. I've really had to go looking for folks to give me constructive criticism on my landgrab. Feel free to analyze further...

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by plop101:
Rancke offers constructive criticism:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> An outpost like that would be most unlikely to survive the aftermath of the War of the First Rebellion. OTOH, if it was rich enough to attract miners during the Sacnoth Dominate, it would propably attract miners from Dyrnwyn after they get back among the stars around the beginning of the 1st Century. On the gripping hand, the settlement map of the Spinward Marches show that it was uninhabited in 300.

The key phrase there is "rich enough". Arba is not Glisten. There's just enough there to interest a few miners, but not enough for full fledged activity. We are talking about a population that is under 1,000 folks, system wide. Thats not likely to attract a whole lot of attention.</font>[/QUOTE]My point was that these people are extremely unlikely to be from Sacnoth, and that according to the settlement map there were none at all at that time.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> While Arba is off to one side from the direct route from Deneb to the Sword Worlds and might easily have been skipped by the first Scout expedition (the one that contacted the Sword Worlds in 53), the initial exploration of the Marches were completed by 100 [The Traveller Book, p. 149]. A date between 60 and 100 would fit better.

Actually, when this was first posted on the TML, I had people telling me the exact opposite; that the Scouts wouldn't show up until much later [300's-400's]. I suppose its a matter of taste.

At the risk of sounding overbearing, the people who told you that were mistaken. There are enough references to Scout activities in the Spinward Marches to create a picture (albeit a scanty one) of it. First contact with the Sword Worlds was in 53. The first surveys were complete by 100. Scouts explored Deneb and the Spinward Marches from 60 to 160. From that I get a preliminary sweep around 53 (IMTU it is from 52-55), followed up by more detailed surveys from 60 to 100, followed by even more detailed investigations of various worlds of special interest from 100 to 160.

It's a matter of taste IYTU and IMTU. But in each universe only one chain of event can be the true one. So only one can be right in the OTU.

...do the Scouts really need reports from traders to survey a system?

...you betchya. Scouts will get their hands on any information they can find, whether its with their own resources or someone elses. They'd be stupid not to.</font>

No, I meant, it's the Scouts' job to survey. Why would the need reports from traders to prompt them to do their job?

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />The commander of the IISS survey team, a rather flamboyant character by the name of "Torack the Searcher", recognizing both the astropolitical significance of the Arba system...

Which is?

Arba lies on the most direct route from the Sword Worlds to Lanth; it and Tavonni are key J2 junctions.</font>

But Lanth isn't important in 300. It isn't even settled. Even in 1100 it is a subsector capital only because the Imperium requires one in each subsector and Lanth is the best of a bad lot.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> There may or may not be a Sword World outpost in the Arba system in 300, but it would probably not be a Sacnoth outpost. The Sword Worlds are split into multiple polities at this time; the most likely owner of such an outpost is the polity consisting of Dyrnwyn, Durendal, and Hofud.

Not even by non governmental organizations? My notion of the 'Sacnoth' outpost was that it was run by civilians, not by the Sacnoth government itself.</font>[/QUOTE]But I think those civilians would most likely belong to the nearest Sword World polity. Why would the Dyrnwyn Compact (name is my own coinage, but the polity is canonical) tolerate the presence of people from Sacnoth? (In the history of the Sword worlds that i;m working on, Sacnoth is balkanized at this time; it's how I explain that Gram and Sacnoth are both in the same polity).

Note that I'm talking likelihood here. If you want Sacnothians, it can be explained away. But it would be something odd, something that would need to be explained away. Is there any special reason they have to be from Sacnoth?

Hans

 

[plop101]

This'll be quick, I've gotta thunderstorm coming in here.

But I think those civilians would most likely belong to the nearest Sword
World polity. Why would the Dyrnwyn Compact (name is my own coinage,
but the polity is canonical) tolerate the presence of people from Sacnoth?
(In the history of the Sword worlds that i;m working on, Sacnoth is
balkanized at this time; it's how I explain that Gram and Sacnoth are
both in the same polity).

Note that I'm talking likelihood here. If you want Sacnothians, it can be
explained away. But it would be something odd, something that would
need to be explained away. Is there any special reason they have to be
from Sacnoth?

from COTI Starcharts:
Dyrnwyn (1522 - B958412-A)
Sacnoth (1325 - B775956-C)

Now, which is more likely...belters coming from a nearby world with a population of at most 90,000, or a world with a population of over a billion. Can Dyrnwyn build Type Js?

do the Scouts really need reports from traders to survey a system?

...you betchya. Scouts will get their hands on any
information they can find, whether its with their own
resources or someone elses. They'd be stupid not to.

No, I meant, it's the Scouts' job to survey. Why would the need reports
from traders to prompt them to do their job?

I'm a tax preparer by trade. Never underestimate the power of bureaucracy to either motivate or stiffle an organization. If Scouts think that something is unimportant, they'll consider it unimportant until they get information saying otherwise.

I'd talk more, but the storm is really coming in.

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by plop101:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />But I think those civilians would most likely belong to the nearest Sword World polity. Why would the Dyrnwyn Compact (name is my own coinage, but the polity is canonical) tolerate the presence of people from Sacnoth?

from COTI Starcharts:
Dyrnwyn (1522 - B958412-A)
Sacnoth (1325 - B775956-C)

Now, which is more likely...belters coming from a nearby world with a population of at most 90,000, or a world with a population of over a billion. Can Dyrnwyn build Type Js? </font>[/QUOTE](It's actually 20,000, not 90,000). First of all, those UWPs are from 1100. Doesn't say anything about how things were in 300. (In my writeup of the Sword Worlds in 55 I gave Sacnoth 50 million inhabitants. Plus, as I said, I'm balkanizing both Sacnoth and Gram to explain why Anduril, Dyrnwyn and Colada in concert can rule all the Sword Worlds in the days of the Trilateral Alliance)

That said, Dyrnwyn is one of several Sword Worlds where the canonical population level is at odds with the canonical history. It's true that three worlds with a combined population of less than 527,000 (their combined population in 1100) would hardly be able to maintain an interstellar state. Yet that is exactly what the settlement maps show that they did. Not to mention that in 104 Dyrnwyn is one of three worlds that share the rule of all the Sword worlds including Sacnoth! (While Hofud was the capital of one of the three successor states to the Sacnoth dominate and Durendal shared the Sword Worlds with Narsil and Sacnoth during the Triple alliance). My conclusion is that the population levels must be wrong and I've lobbied TBTB to have them changed.
An alternative is to say that all these worlds had higher populations back in 300 and all of them just happened to have devastating catastrophes kill off huge fractions of their populations just prior to 1105.

Hans

 

[plop101]

Just refreshing the topic; throwing another log on the fire.

With the possible development of a new starport supplement for T20, it occurs to me that I might want to use it for developing another version of the old Arba landgrab. Version 1.0 used Rob Eaglestones' starports tome, while Version 3.0 used GT Starports. A Version 4.0 would fit nicely. I may have to think about that.