Aslan Preview

[dmccoy1693]

Based on what? Even if some people do complain about it not agreeing with what little exists in canon for the area, they won't really have any case to base their opinion on. The point of the Foreven license as far as I understand is to allow people to use concepts from the OTU in their own commercial products.

You shouldn't let fear get in the way of your work. And if they complain, so what? If their complaints are not valid then just ignore them.

One product line I thought of doing were alien books. Hivers would be the one I'd lead off with since Mongoose said they're not going to be doing Hivers for a while (so I wouldn't be competing with them). Mind you, I'd buy the t4 alien archive and TNE's aliens of the rim to learn as much as I can about hivers. But I'd want to expand on them, allowing players to have totally new options. And what if something I wrote completely contradicted something in a random adventure that was published in MT. Am I going to get jumped all over or be branded that I just don't "get Traveller"? Will my little company be doomed for doing such a product? Those are big questions.

Frankly this 19 page thread is proof that I am not crazy for asking these questions.

 

[dmccoy1693]

You already answered you own question when you wrote that you've signed a license to produce non-canon products. All you need do is state This isn't canon somewhere in or on your products and there will be no trouble at all.

Fair point. I am going to be cautious though.

By the way, let me congratulate you yet another product release. The gaming hobby is full of vaporware and Traveller is no exception. So it's nice to see someone announce they'll be producing products and then actually go ahead and produce those products.

Thank you. And I share your feelings on vaporware. One thing I am committed to doing with my company is to never have vapor ware. My strategy is to never announce a product until it is minimum 3/4 completed, preferably 100% completed and ready to publish. I want to do this right and I want to do right by the fans.

 

[Whipsnade]

It's not though. "Virtually unheard of" can mean "very uncommon". Rare also can mean "very uncommon". So they're pretty much the same thing. Really this all just seems to me to be a big fuss over semantics.

drh,

Semantics? More like selective quoting.

Here's the ENTIRE quote from the preview:

Psionic ability is virtually unheard-of among the Aslan and there is some doubt as to whether or not the race is naturally psionic. The few known cases of Aslan possessing such abilities are all shrouded in either mysticism or can be attributed to genetic
manipulation or alien technology. Aslan Player Characters may not possess any psionic ability at the start of the game.

It's just not "virtually unheard of". It's also "the few known cases", "shrouded in mysticism", "genetic manipulation", and "alien technology".

Most damningly of all it's also Aslan Player Characters may not possess any psionic ability at the start of the game.

Please note the use of the term may not. It's not simply a case of "virtually unheard of".

I know this is a passionate topic for you, but selective quoting does your position no good whatsoever. Neither does harping on whether DGP's MT materials are canon or not because, as has already been explained, CT explicitly listed DMs for Aslan psionic testing and psionic strength losses from aging. CT said it was possible and DGP/MT merely provided some chrome.

I fail to understand how removing psionic potential from the Aslan somehow provides players with more "options". You've posted that the Mongoose forum is happily discussing how to play the Aslan, has anyone there asked how they can now play a psionic Aslan? Especially considering they used to be able to play psionic Aslan before the release of MgT?


Regards,
Bill

 

[drh]

One product line I thought of doing were alien books. Hivers would be the one I'd lead off with since Mongoose said they're not going to be doing Hivers for a while (so I wouldn't be competing with them).

Uh, I don't think the Foreven license allows you to write a Hiver book. All it allows you to do is create stuff that applies only in Foreven. So you can write a book saying "this is what Hivers are like in Foreven", but you can't write a general Hiver book unless you're actually writing for Mongoose itself.

 

[dmccoy1693]

Uh, I don't think the Foreven license allows you to write a Hiver book. All it allows you to do is create stuff that applies only in Foreven. So you can write a book saying "this is what Hivers are like in Foreven", but you can't write a general Hiver book unless you're actually writing for Mongoose itself.

I can talk about Hiver society in Foreven, how in the known universe Hivers got to the Foreven sector, hiver religion (something mutated from their home society), hiver ships, hiver npcs, Hiver relations to other races in Foreven, making Hivers as a PC race, hiver influence in a particular subsector in Foreven (and subsector guide), mention Hiver/Aslan plots, etc. Sounds like a ~96 page book to me.

 

[drh]

I fail to understand how removing psionic potential from the Aslan somehow provides players with more "options". You've posted that the Mongoose forum is happily discussing how to play the Aslan, has anyone there asked how they can now play a psionic Aslan?

You're the one that cares about it so much, have you asked them how to play a psionic aslan on the Mongoose forum?

I don't care myself, it makes no difference to me whatsoever if there are psionic aslan or not in MGT.

 

[drh]

I can talk about Hiver society in Foreven, how in the known universe Hivers got to the Foreven sector, hiver religion (something mutated from their home society), hiver ships, hiver npcs, Hiver relations to other races in Foreven, making Hivers as a PC race, etc. Sounds like a good 96 page book to me.

Sure, so long as you don't talk about hivers or anything else outside Foreven. I think that means you can't even compare the ones you put in your Foreven book to the ones outside it, but I'm not sure. You'd have to ask Matt about that.

 

[dmccoy1693]

Sure, so long as you don't talk about hivers or anything else outside Foreven. I think that means you can't even compare the ones you put in your Foreven book to the ones outside it, but I'm not sure. You'd have to ask Matt about that.

Its complicated how it works. I can mention that Guaran is the homeworld of the Hivers or that a cluster of ships jumping together somehow found themselves in Foreven when they returned to normal space a week later. But I can't describe the politics at the time. I can read about hiver philosophy/religion and use it as inspiration when coming up with my own hiver religion, but I cannot borrow it completely.

To use a Star Trek analogy: If I were attempting to detail what life as a Vulcan was like in the new ST universe, I'd read up on ST books, watch all the various series and extrapolate from there what a Vulcan would be like without a homeworld. They'd be a race in shock and also a gypsy-like race, travelling from world to world, but they would still be their cold, logical selves. Those attempting to establish the colony oSpock talked of at the end of the movie would be talked about as those willing to put aside personal differences and personal desires of the past to serve the greater good of their race now. So basickly, I'd have to pretend those old sources do not exist, because officially they do not exist. But they would be rather relivant to portraying a Vulcan accurately. I'd be doing the same with a Hiver.

 

[Whipsnade]

You're the one that cares about it so much, have you asked them how to play a psionic aslan on the Mongoose forum?

drh,

That's true, I haven't asked. I wonder if asking such a question there would even be worthwhile.

It's also true that I'm not the one who has regularly defended several of Mongoose's changes by saying they're providing more options for players.

So, how about you answering my question here? How does removing psionics from Aslan characters provide a player with more options?

I don't care myself, it makes no difference to me whatsoever if there are psionic aslan or not in MGT.

And yet you're hip deep in this thread...

By the way, I know you aren't interested in the thread's level detail, but you might enjoy just skimming through Ishmael's Aslan thread in the IMTU forum. Lot's of different ideas that could lead to more options for players.


Regards,
Bill

 

[drh]

It's also true that I'm not the one who has regularly defended several of Mongoose's changes by saying they're providing more options for players.

I don't believe I've stated that myself either.

So, how about you answering my question here? How does removing psionics from Aslan characters provide a player with more options?

I don't know. I don't care either. I'm not finding myself lacking for Aslan options as it is, so I don't feel that I'm missing any psionic ones. And for all I know, Mongoose may give me more options that I hadn't considered previously in the rest of the book. At worst, all it means is that I can't play a psionic aslan - to which I'd just shrug and decide to play something else. I don't see why every race should be able to do everything after all.

 

[drh]

Let me ask you something, Whipsnade. Why should someone new to Traveller actually care whether or not they can play psionic aslan? Or that the Aslan arrived in the Trojan Reaches at a certain time? Obviously it's important to you that they do, but why should it be important to someone who's never bought into Traveller before and who doesn't know anything about the OTU?

As far as I can see what is presented to them would make no difference to them either way, so long as it was playable. And as I said, if there are plenty of other options available then where's the problem? It's not as if psionic aslan are completely precluded anyway, they're just rare. So if a GM wanted to allow a psionic aslan character then he has some leeway there. The GM can even just ignore what the book says completely and have a whole party full of psionic aslan if he wants to.

 

[Kilgs]

I'm so shocked that the post with 19 pages is negative-Mongoose bashing.

Shocked, I tell you. *Yawn*

 

[Whipsnade]

Let me ask you something, Whipsnade. Why should someone new to Traveller actually care whether or not they can play psionic aslan? Or that the Aslan arrived in the Trojan Reaches at a certain time? Obviously it's important to you that they do, but why should it be important to someone who's never bought into Traveller before and who doesn't know anything about the OTU?

drh,

Let me answer that with another question.

Why should someone new to D&D actually care whether or not they can play Drow? Or that the Drow only live in certain regions? Why should it be important to them to know what alignments are? Or what a Chaotically Neutral character should and shouldn't do? Obviously it's important to D&D players, but should it be important to someone who's never been brought into D&D before and who doesn't know anything about D&D's various settings?

When you answer my question, you'll have your answer to your own.

And as I said, if there are plenty of other options available then where's the problem?

One less option.

It's not as if psionic aslan are completely precluded anyway, they're just rare.

Don't selectively quote. Not rare, Aslan Player Characters may not possess any psionic ability at the start of the game.

So if a GM wanted to allow a psionic aslan character then he has some leeway there.

And the player has no longer has any leeway. Previously, a player could generate a psionic Aslan PC. Now that psionic ability is only allowed by GM fiat.

The GM can even just ignore what the book says completely and have a whole party full of psionic aslan if he wants to.

That's true. Of course, unlike in previous versions, he now has no rules with which to do that.


Regards,
Bill

 

[drh]

drh,

Let me answer that with another question.

No, answer it with an answer please.

But to humor you, my answer to your question is "they shouldn't". If I was new to D&D then I know I wouldn't care, I'd just take the contents of the book I'm reading as what I should be paying attention to. I've never played Forgotten Realms before, but if I picked up the new 4e FR books that some people have been frothing about then I wouldn't really care about what previous editions said about it at all.

One less option.

One less option that I don't care about. And you have no idea if the book will offer more options to replace that apparently vast, gaping void of "no psionics for PCs".

Don't selectively quote. Not rare, Aslan Player Characters may not possess any psionic ability at the start of the game.

If you're going to be that picky about it, you'll not it says Aslan Player Characters. No mention of Aslan NPCs, so with your fixed, binary logic it seems that there's nothing ruling out (rare) Aslan NPCs with psionic abilities.

And the player has no longer has any leeway. Previously, a player could generate a psionic Aslan PC. Now that psionic ability is only allowed by GM fiat.

So? Doesn't matter how it's there, so long as it's allowed.

That's true. Of course, unlike in previous versions, he now has no rules with which to do that.

None that you know of, from a tiny preview.

 

[Whipsnade]

No, answer it with an answer please.[/qote]


drh,

Why? Have you done the same?

One less option that I don't care about.

And because it's an option you don't care about it shouldn't be available to anyone else? Talk about fixed binary thinking, you've got it in spades.

And you have no idea if the book will offer more options to replace that apparently vast, gaping void of "no psionics for PCs".

Nice nit. So the book is going to essentially say "No psionics for PCs but here's how to do it with NPCs?"

What do you say we make a bet on that? If the MgT: Aslan book provides actual rules for GMs to create psionic Aslan NPCs I'll leave COTI for 100 days. If the book doesn't provide those rules, you'll leave COTI for the same period. What do you say?

None that you know of, from a tiny preview.

And none that you know of either.

How about that bet? Care to back up your opinions and predictions with something actually tangible?


Regards,
Bill

 

[rancke]

I'm so shocked that the post with 19 pages is negative-Mongoose bashing.

Shocked, I tell you. *Yawn*

I don't blame you. You're getting your feed from an alternate universe (One where people are evidently making mindless, unsupported, knee-jerk rants against Moongoose, rather than making thoughtful, substantiated statements and posing relevant questions). Being in touch with an alternate world would shock me too.


Hans

 

[Klaus]

Do we know what "at the start of the game" explicitly means?

Is it: at the start of actual play, or...

Is it: PC aslan cannot be psionic at the start of chargen?

 

[drh]

Why? Have you done the same?

I did answer your question, at the bottom of the previous page. I note that you still haven't bothered to answer mine though.

And because it's an option you don't care about it shouldn't be available to anyone else? Talk about fixed binary thinking, you've got it in spades.

Why would you expect others to care that it's not available? Why would you expect others to require that every conceivable option for their character is made explicit in a book?

Nice nit. So the book is going to essentially say "No psionics for PCs but here's how to do it with NPCs?"

I don't know. It might, it might not. All I know is that if you're being super-literal about it then there's nothing in the statement in the preview that prevents there being psionic aslan NPCs.

What do you say we make a bet on that? If the MgT: Aslan book provides actual rules for GMs to create psionic Aslan NPCs I'll leave COTI for 100 days. If the book doesn't provide those rules, you'll leave COTI for the same period. What do you say?

I see no reason to place bets on anything here. And I'm not a betting man.

And none that you know of either.

True. I'm not pretending that I know what else is in the book though. Are you?

How about that bet? Care to back up your opinions and predictions with something actually tangible?

No. As I said, I don't bet, and there's nothing to bet about here anyway. It's not as if you have anything more tangible than what is in the preview anyway. You have absolutely no idea if the rest of the book contains anything that would defuse your arguments.

Meanwhile, instead of trying to distract me with "bets", why don't you answer my question that you have so far avoided answering? In case you forgot it, here it is again:

Why should someone new to Traveller actually care whether or not they can play psionic aslan? Or that the Aslan arrived in the Trojan Reaches at a certain time? Obviously it's important to you that they do, but why should it be important to someone who's never bought into Traveller before and who doesn't know anything about the OTU?

 

[dmccoy1693]

So who's going to post the 200th post on this thread?

 

[aramis]

Time to get back on topic, people.