Aslan Preview

[Supplement Four]

I will....

By saying, "Why can't we all just love each other?"

 

[Supplement Four]

I'm going to post #202, as well.

Aramis beat me to #200, dagg-nabbit.

Since when does DGP count as canonical reference material?

MWM has said that DGP material is canonical.

 

[travlar]

Let me ask you something, Whipsnade. Why should someone new to Traveller actually care whether or not they can play psionic aslan? Or that the Aslan arrived in the Trojan Reaches at a certain time? Obviously it's important to you that they do, but why should it be important to someone who's never bought into Traveller before and who doesn't know anything about the OTU?

As far as I can see what is presented to them would make no difference to them either way, so long as it was playable. And as I said, if there are plenty of other options available then where's the problem? It's not as if psionic aslan are completely precluded anyway, they're just rare. So if a GM wanted to allow a psionic aslan character then he has some leeway there. The GM can even just ignore what the book says completely and have a whole party full of psionic aslan if he wants to.

Um. Well, if I was new to Traveller, and I looked at the alien races, and decided that I really liked the Aslan, and I also wanted to play a psionic character, I would care.

Now, I would like to know if anyone knows of a good reason for Mongoose to make this change. It's a more restricting change, with no good reason for it that I know of. If there isn't a good reason, then perhaps Mongoose should get rid of it, since it removes an option.

 

[drh]

Um. Well, if I was new to Traveller, and I looked at the alien races, and decided that I really liked the Aslan, and I also wanted to play a psionic character, I would care.

Then you just wouldn't be able to play one (unless your GM let you). Sorry, but if you insist on sticking to the letter of the book then in this case you just can't have your cake and eat it too. You'll have to decide which you like more - playing an Aslan or playing a Psionic. if you like playing an Aslan more then you won't be playing a Psionic one. If you wanted to play a psionic character then you'd have to pick another race. If anything I think it adds to their alienness to say that they can't be psionic or that psionics are very rare for them. But answer me this, why would you expect psionic capability to be a universal constant among all sentient races in the first place?

In D&D if you wanted to play someone with low-light vision would you pick a human and then complain that he didn't have it and that it was unfair because it limited your options? No. You'd pick a race that did have low-light vision instead, wouldn't you?

Now, I would like to know if anyone knows of a good reason for Mongoose to make this change. It's a more restricting change, with no good reason for it that I know of. If there isn't a good reason, then perhaps Mongoose should get rid of it, since it removes an option.

If you knew that Aslan were psionic in previous editions then maybe it's an issue. But if you didn't know that Aslan were psionic previously then you wouldn't care, you'd just accept that they're not psionic. It's like saying that a particular race isn't force-sensitive in Star Wars. Well, them's the breaks for that race, no Force for them. That's just how they are. If you wanted to play someone who was Force-sensitive then you'd play something else, right?




And I wonder, how many people here who are so offended by the thought of not having psionic aslan PCs have ever actually played one, or more to the point are still actually playing one in a game that they are definitely going to convert to MGT? Nobody, I'd guess.

 

[rust]

Besides, if one really wants to play a psionic Aslan, he still can do so. He can
always ignore that part of the Aslan module and go ahead with his own ideas
of what the Aslan of his setting should be like.

 

[travlar]

Then you just wouldn't be able to play one. Sorry, but in this case you just can't have your cake and eat it too. You'll have to decide which you like more - playing an Aslan or playing a Psionic. if you like playing an Aslan more then you won't be playing a Psionic one. If you wanted to play a psionic character then you'd have to pick another race. If anything I think it adds to their alienness to say that they can't be psionic or that psionics are very rare for them. But answer me this, why would you expect psionic capability to be a universal constant among all sentient races in the first place?

Exactly. Thus, it removes an option. Now, why is this a good change? It doesn't particularly add to their alienness IMHO. And I don't expect all sentient races to be psionic capable, in fact, I think that may be relatively rare. I'm not at all sure about that, though. It seems to me that the question is why is this change good? Changing canon just to change it does nothing but add confusion, and in this case, requires divergence or the loss of options. (The psionic clans and assasins.) So, what is the purpose?

If you knew that Aslan were psionic in previous editions then maybe it's an issue. But if you didn't know that Aslan were psionic previously then you wouldn't care, you'd just accept that they're not psionic. It's like saying that a particular race isn't force-sensitive in Star Wars. Well, them's the breaks for that race, no Force for them. That's just how they are. If you wanted to play someone who was Force-sensitive then you'd play something else, right?

True. And I wouldn't mind at all if they made a race and had them not be psionic. The problem is that it's a change, with no gain that I can see. So, why?

And I wonder, how many people here who are so offended by the thought of not having psionic aslan PCs have ever actually played one, or more to the point are still actually playing one in a game that they are definitely going to convert to MGT? Nobody, I'd bet.

I don't think anyone is offended by the thought of not having psionic Aslan PCs. The problem is a change which removes prior possibilities, and prior possibilities which were specifically mentioned in earlier things. Canon is confusing enough already without changes made just to make changes. Which this might not be, but since I haven't seen a good reason for it mentioned yet, and I can't think of one, that's what it looks like.

 

[atpollard]

And I wonder, how many people here who are so offended by the thought of not having psionic aslan PCs have ever actually played one, or more to the point are still actually playing one in a game that they are definitely going to convert to MGT? Nobody, I'd guess.

How about one person who sees a change that appears completely random and serves no positive purpose, and in fact diminishes Traveller - who just walks away with a slightly bitter aftertaste at yet another ugly debate due to a pointless change not for the betterment of the game, but simply change for change's sake.

I hope that they change it back for the second printing.

 

[Colin]

MWM has said that DGP material is canonical.

Is it? I thought it wasn't. Well, colour me wrong, then.

 

[drh]

Exactly. Thus, it removes an option. Now, why is this a good change?

Like I said, it only matters if you know previous canon and if (for some bizarre reason) you were absolutely married to the concept of psionic aslan to the point of arguing about it endlessly on a forum. Nobody else cares though.

To anyone new to the game, it's just not an option, and they'd accept it just as easily as someone would accept that humans in D&D don't have low-light vision.

I think what this really boils down to is that some people just don't like being told they can't do something in an RPG.

It seems to me that the question is why is this change good? Changing canon just to change it does nothing but add confusion, and in this case, requires divergence or the loss of options. (The psionic clans and assasins.) So, what is the purpose?

Tell you what, you guys can wring your hands in anguish and navel-gaze over that for the next few months. The rest of us will just carry on playing and enjoying the game. Sorry, but I really can't take people seriously if all they're going to do is sit there crying "Why, dear god, WHY?!!!!".

True. And I wouldn't mind at all if they made a race and had them not be psionic. The problem is that it's a change, with no gain that I can see. So, why?

And again, is this a personal loss to you? Were you dead set on playing a psionic aslan in Mongoose Traveller?

I don't think anyone is offended by the thought of not having psionic Aslan PCs.

Funny, some people seem to be making a really big deal out of it. If they're not actually offended by it then I'd say they're investing an unhealthy amount of emotional energy into complaining about it.

 

[drh]

How about one person who sees a change that appears completely random and serves no positive purpose, and in fact diminishes Traveller - who just walks away with a slightly bitter aftertaste at yet another ugly debate due to a pointless change not for the betterment of the game, but simply change for change's sake.

There's less than 10 people here complaining about it. Do you seriously expect Mongoose to change what they're writing just because 10 people who probably wouldn't even have bought the book in the first place don't like it? I really hope they don't change it, for the sake of everyone else who doesn't really give a damn.

 

[tbeard1999]

Like I said, it only matters if you know previous canon and if (for some bizarre reason) you were absolutely married to the concept of psionic aslan to the point of arguing about it endlessly on a forum. Nobody else cares though. ...

Funny, some people seem to be making a really big deal out of it. If they're not actually offended by it then I'd say they're investing an unhealthy amount of emotional energy into complaining about it.

The same might be said of you.

How many posts have you made on this "unhealthy" topic?

 

[aramis]

It's a needless restriction, and one that is a clear change for no explained reason.

Further, it's not a hard item to have looked up in prior canon. (Ignoring completely the MT Solomani & Aslan Book, as it's canonicity is now questionable.)

 

[drh]

How many posts have you made on this "unhealthy" topic?

I don't care either way. I don't think anyone outside this board cares much about it either. I'm just puzzled as to why you people care so much about it. I'm certainly not investing any emotional energy into it though.

 

[drh]

It's a needless restriction, and one that is a clear change for no explained reason.

But again, it's not anything that anyone would miss if they were coming into the game for the first time with MGT. It's not an issue for any newcomers to Traveller at all.

And really, canon's changed all over the place previously on various subjects, for no good reason. This isn't any different, so I'm not sure why you're treating it like it's never happened before.

 

[travlar]

And really, canon's changed all over the place previously on various subjects, for no good reason. This isn't any different, so I'm not sure why you're treating it like it's never happened before.

Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I for one would like that to cease. This is a chance for Mongoose to do better than what came before. Saying something is fine because it's happened before gets you problems. It isn't a good reason to do something.

 

[aramis]

But again, it's not anything that anyone would miss if they were coming into the game for the first time with MGT. It's not an issue for any newcomers to Traveller at all.

But the core book has no such restriction, so it's not even consistent with the core book.

So it is an issue for newcomers; it's a restriction being imposed on them as well.

 

[far-trader]

Let me beat drh to this one...

...but I'm in no way picking any side by this post, least of all drh's in this mess.

But the core book has no such restriction, so it's not even consistent with the core book.

But (right, wrong, or simply different) Mongoose Core Traveller is not OTU Traveller. It's (semi/quasi?) generic. Twisty concept but I think that's what is finally coming out clearly.

The Aslan book is OTU, but, Mongoose Traveller OTU (for good, bad, or indifferent) is not prior Traveller OTU. One is "Official" the other is "Original" or something like that, whatever that means. An even more twisty concept imo but so be it.

If I understand it right (and I'm not entirely sure I do) after a lot of (what appears somewhat after-the-fact) 'splainin.

 

[rancke]

But again, it's not anything that anyone would miss if they were coming into the game for the first time with MGT. It's not an issue for any newcomers to Traveller at all.

Who ever said it was? Your point seems to be that changes to canon only matters to people who knows and cares about canon. What a surprise. What you don't seem able to grasp is the corollary: that changes to canon matters to people who knows and cares about canon. Guess into what category the people who are posting about it falls? I'll givde you a hint: They're not newcomers.

And really, canon's changed all over the place previously on various subjects, for no good reason. This isn't any different, so I'm not sure why you're treating it like it's never happened before.

We're not. we're treating it like we'd like to avoid it happening again.


Hans

 

[drh]

But the core book has no such restriction, so it's not even consistent with the core book.

So it is an issue for newcomers; it's a restriction being imposed on them as well.

The MGT corebook says this on page 152 (first page of the Psionics chapter):

In Traveller a few humans – and other sophonts – have developed potent psionic abilities such as telepathy, telekinesis and even teleportation. In the Imperium, learning to harness this gift is a difficult process, made even harder by the Imperial ban on psionics. The Psionics Institutes that study mental powers have gone underground, following a disastrous attempt to guide human development centuries ago. In other civilisations, such as the Zhodani Consulate, psionics are an accepted part of the human condition.

That doesn't imply to me that every race in the OTU has psionics. And it certainly doesn't imply to me that Aslan necessarily have psionics either (maybe they're among those "other sophonts", maybe not).

Try again.

 

[tbeard1999]

I don't care either way. I don't think anyone outside this board cares much about it either. I'm just puzzled as to why you people care so much about it. I'm certainly not investing any emotional energy into it though.

<shrug> If you say so.

Personally, I am skeptical of strident "get a life" comments from folks who engage in the same behavior they condemn.

But that's just me.