Aslan Preview

[rancke]

The preview actually says "virtually unheard-of", which is pretty close to "Rare".

Not according to what I've been taught.

The preview then goes on to mention a few known psionic Aslan, but claims they were either mythical or mutations.

Solomani & Aslan, p. 87 mentions two entire clans that make regular use of psionics. In authorial voice, not viewpoint writing. The rules Bill quoted says that psionics are rare because most Aslans don't get tested, not because they're not capable of being trained. That is most definitely not the same thing as being "virtually unheard of". In fact, it's very much "heard of even if not met any".


Hans

 

[atpollard]

... so where do the comfortable shoes that I hear mentioned in relation to Aslan fit in ...

On the subject of psionic feline aliens, what do other sci-fi sources present?
Is there a writer who portrays psionic felines?

(other than the Honor Harrington 'treecats', which are not very 'Aslan-like').

 

[drh]

Solomani & Aslan, p. 87 mentions two entire clans that make regular use of psionics.

Since when does DGP count as canonical reference material?

 

[Colin]

... so where do the comfortable shoes that I hear mentioned in relation to Aslan fit in ...

On the subject of psionic feline aliens, what do other sci-fi sources present?
Is there a writer who portrays psionic felines?

(other than the Honor Harrington 'treecats', which are not very 'Aslan-like').

Yeah. Larry Niven. Some Kzinti are telepaths. And they are not well-regarded, though they are considered useful. One of their problems, as strict carnivores, is the distress caused by reading the mind of any sort of plant-eater. It's beneath them, but they have to do it any way. Especially since a well-disciplined mind can bring to the forefront the taste of carrots...

 

[Colin]

Since when does DGP count as canonical reference material?

It's not, not any more.

 

[atpollard]

While I have not seen the cover, it should be noted that the 'Traveller' books [as distinct from the 'Third Imperium' books] are intended to be part of a multi-universe sci-fi gaming engine and not necessarily 100% compatible with the 'Original Traveller Universe'. I believe that the new Aslan book is a 'Traveller' product rather than a 'Third Imperium' product.

This distinction is per Mongoose and whether one chooses to agree or disagree with that decision, it is folly to ignore its implications and argue that something "NOT intended exclusively for the OTU" is different from past "OTU products" ... like DUH? No kidding.

If you believe that a change is for the better or for the worse, you should definitely articulate why you feel that way. Your insights might inspire or persuade others. However, criticizing the changes EXCLUSIVELY because they are changes seems pointless.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Colin]

The new "Aslan" book is definitely a 3I product.

 

[atpollard]

Yeah. Larry Niven. Some Kzinti are telepaths. And they are not well-regarded, though they are considered useful. One of their problems, as strict carnivores, is the distress caused by reading the mind of any sort of plant-eater. It's beneath them, but they have to do it any way. Especially since a well-disciplined mind can bring to the forefront the taste of carrots...

This would suggest that the 'Traveller' (MgT) 'Aslan' should potentially be telepathic, even if the 'Third Imperium' (OTU) psionic 'Aslan' are noted as being "rare" or even "virtually unheard of". If it exists in literature, then the core rules should support it.

... After all, isn't that the whole idea behind 'Mongoose Traveller'?
[as it was the intent in the original 3 LBBs.]

 

[atpollard]

The new "Aslan" book is definitely a 3I product.

Then that is a cat of a different stripe ... so why the change from 'hard to find psi training' to 'requires exotic mutations to be psionic'? How is the OTU better for the change?

 

[robject]

This would suggest that the 'Traveller' (MgT) 'Aslan' should potentially be telepathic, even if the 'Third Imperium' (OTU) psionic 'Aslan' are noted as being "rare" or even "virtually unheard of". If it exists in literature, then the core rules should support it.

... After all, isn't that the whole idea behind 'Mongoose Traveller'?
[as it was the intent in the original 3 LBBs.]

Assuming the Aslan are Kzinti. But the intent for Traveller, regardless of who publishes for it, is that the Aslan are Aslan.

Fortunately, the Aslan do have psionics, though not common and suffering from a faster degradation than (e.g.) humaniti.

 

[rancke]

Since when does DGP count as canonical reference material?

Next you'll be telling me that GURPS Traveller isn't canon either.


Hans

 

[drh]

Next you'll be telling me that GURPS Traveller isn't canon either.

Hans

I don't know about GURPS. All I know is that you were referencing a DGP product, and as far as I understand that isn't a canon product. So Mongoose doesn't have to be in agreement with anything stated there.

 

[rancke]

I don't know about GURPS. All I know is that you were referencing a DGP product, and as far as I understand that isn't a canon product.

Apparently not, although I've been getting mixed signals about that. We (GT playtesters and authors) certainly were asked not to invalidate any DGP material if we could avoid it.

So Mongoose doesn't have to be in agreement with anything stated there.

According to Matt, Mongoose doesn't have to be in agreement with anything stated in canon either. But why wouldn't they want to be? There are 4000 clans in the Hierate, of which 70 or 80 has been mentioned, even if most of them were single sentence or single paragraph references. Why invalidate two of them for no good reason? What is gained by changing psionic occurence in Aslan from rare to non-existent?

At the very least it's inconsiderate.


Hans

 

[tbeard1999]

I don't know about GURPS. All I know is that you were referencing a DGP product, and as far as I understand that isn't a canon product. So Mongoose doesn't have to be in agreement with anything stated there.

Unless, of course, GDW ratified the DGP material by incorporating it into official products. Which they did, if memory serves, at least to some extent by incorporating DGP stuff into Megatraveller.

 

[dmccoy1693]

The more I read this thread, the more I sympathize with Wizards of the Coast. One of the reasons cited for the Forgotten Realms reboot for 4E was that there was simply to much canon for the setting. New authors didn't want to write for the setting because if they messed up even something small the internet would jump all over it. So they rebooted the setting so new authors could be on the same level as 20+ year vets.

I originally thought that that was just bunk. But the more I read this thread the more I can completely see where Wizards of the Coast was coming from. Without having read any OTU sources prior to Mongoose Traveller, its obvious to me that OTU canon conflicts itself. Some fans choose to follow one set of ideas while others chose to follow others. Either way with Mongoose making a decision to follow one set left them some angry OTU fans. But they'd be left with other angry OTU-fans had they chosen to go the other way. Basickly, they're damned if they do and they're damned if they don't.

But where does that leave me? I recently signed the Foreven Free Sector Logo License to produce non-canon OTU products. But threads like this really make me reconsider how to proceed. Even on a non-canon basis, I could be walking into one hell of a *bleep*-storm. I'm not really looking to go through that level of controversy. So I am left to consider, where does that leave me?

 

[drh]

Even on a non-canon basis, I could be walking into one hell of a *bleep*-storm. I'm not really looking to go through that level of controversy. So I am left to consider, where does that leave me?

If it's non-canon, then nobody here or anywhere else really has any reason to complain. It's only the poor bastards who write official products that get the hate mail.

 

[drh]

Apparently not, although I've been getting mixed signals about that. We (GT playtesters and authors) certainly were asked not to invalidate any DGP material if we could avoid it.

Depends if Mongoose feels obliged to stick to the DGP material or not. If it's not official canon then I don't really see why they should to be honest.

What is gained by changing psionic occurence in Aslan from rare to non-existent?

It's not though. "Virtually unheard of" can mean "very uncommon". Rare also can mean "very uncommon". So they're pretty much the same thing. Really this all just seems to me to be a big fuss over semantics. And also, if it was the non-canonical DGP material that stated that there were psionic clans then I don't even see why people are so up in arms about Mongoose changing that. If the source is non-canon then it does not have to be adhered to.

 

[dmccoy1693]

If it's non-canon, then nobody here or anywhere else really has any reason to complain. It's only the poor bastards who write official products that get the hate mail.

While that may be true, I'm not really willing to take that kind of bet.

 

[drh]

While that may be true, I'm not really willing to take that kind of bet.

Based on what? Even if some people do complain about it not agreeing with what little exists in canon for the area, they won't really have any case to base their opinion on. The point of the Foreven license as far as I understand is to allow people to use concepts from the OTU in their own commercial products.

You shouldn't let fear get in the way of your work. And if they complain, so what? If their complaints are not valid then just ignore them.

 

[Whipsnade]

I recently signed the Foreven Free Sector Logo License to produce non-canon OTU products. But threads like this really make me reconsider how to proceed. Even on a non-canon basis, I could be walking into one hell of a *bleep*-storm. I'm not really looking to go through that level of controversy. So I am left to consider, where does that leave me?

Doc,

You already answered you own question when you wrote that you've signed a license to produce non-canon products. All you need do is state This isn't canon somewhere in or on your products and there will be no trouble at all.

By the way, let me congratulate you yet another product release. The gaming hobby is full of vaporware and Traveller is no exception. So it's nice to see someone announce they'll be producing products and then actually go ahead and produce those products.


Regards,
Bill