At odds with a character's tech level...

[rancke]

Originally posted by alte:
But the Kinunir and IIRC TCS show that world TL does not dictate the TL of naval vessels.

True. Imperial Navy vessels can be any TL up to 15. Subsector navies can be any TL up to the highest present in the subsector[*]. Planetary navies can be any TL up to the highest in the system's subsector.

[*] When used in this context I interpret 'subsector' as a synonym for 'duchy'. In most cases the difference is moot, but there are a few duchies that extend beyond the borders of their core subsector, like the Duchy of Regina, which includes the County of Jewell, the County of Vilis, and bits of Lanth and Aramis[**], and the Duchy of Rhylanor (which includes the Aramis Trace).

[**] That Jewell is a county under the Duke of Regina is canonical; the rest is my inference.

If TL-10 Regina can build a whole squadron of TL-15 Kinunirs, then I can't see why TL-11 Aramis can't make and maintain FGMP-15's.

The TL of 10 shown for Regina in The Spinward Marches and all the early adventures is presumably a mistake that was rectified in The Spinward Marches Campaign (unless you consider it plausible that Regina would jump two tech levels in just five years (actually, a lot less than five years)). The true TL is 12, which could easily accomodate a Space TL of 13. As for the Kinunir, there's no need for it to be TL15; TL13 is enough to account for its jump-4 drive.

The idea that imperial marines would have different TLs on different worlds just doesn't bear examination.

Agreed. Imperial Marine Corps marines are IMO all equipped to TL15. But that doesn't mean that their battledresses are necessarily built on the world they're stationed on.

Also, duchies may have locally raised marine forces that are equipped to lesser standards. They'd still be Imperial marines, just not regular Imperial marines (That's how I reconcile the marines on the Luruu with GT's Imperial-marines-that-all-have-battledress-skill: IMTU the Luruu belongs to the Duchy of Regina Navy and its marines are Duchy of Regina Marine Corps marines.


Hans

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by alte:
But the Kinunir and IIRC TCS show that world TL does not dictate the TL of naval vessels.

True. Imperial Navy vessels can be any TL up to 15. Subsector navies can be any TL up to the highest present in the subsector[*]. Planetary navies can be any TL up to the highest in the system's subsector.

[*] When used in this context I interpret 'subsector' as a synonym for 'duchy'. In most cases the difference is moot, but there are a few duchies that extend beyond the borders of their core subsector, like the Duchy of Regina, which includes the County of Jewell, the County of Vilis, and bits of Lanth and Aramis[**], and the Duchy of Rhylanor (which includes the Aramis Trace).

[**] That Jewell is a county under the Duke of Regina is canonical; the rest is my inference.

If TL-10 Regina can build a whole squadron of TL-15 Kinunirs, then I can't see why TL-11 Aramis can't make and maintain FGMP-15's.

The TL of 10 shown for Regina in The Spinward Marches and all the early adventures is presumably a mistake that was rectified in The Spinward Marches Campaign (unless you consider it plausible that Regina would jump two tech levels in just five years (actually, a lot less than five years)). The true TL is 12, which could easily accomodate a Space TL of 13. As for the Kinunir, there's no need for it to be TL15; TL13 is enough to account for its jump-4 drive.

The idea that imperial marines would have different TLs on different worlds just doesn't bear examination.

Agreed. Imperial Marine Corps marines are IMO all equipped to TL15. But that doesn't mean that their battledresses are necessarily built on the world they're stationed on.

Also, duchies may have locally raised marine forces that are equipped to lesser standards. They'd still be Imperial marines, just not regular Imperial marines (That's how I reconcile the marines on the Luruu with GT's Imperial-marines-that-all-have-battledress-skill: IMTU the Luruu belongs to the Duchy of Regina Navy and its marines are Duchy of Regina Marine Corps marines.


Hans

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
I know what you mean. I've got a character in my campaign from Pysadi, a TL 4 world. We reasoned that this character was a child of one of the Class C starport's workers and grew up around that facility (TL 8).

But, as soon as the character turned 18, he joined the merchants, spending the last 12 years on a TL 13 Tramp freighter.

Kinda hard to come up with a hard-n-fast rule for this character's "tech".

Obviously, someone like this would be unable to repair a complicated TL 15 gadget. But then, someone who grew up on a TL 15 world would most likely be unable to repair a complicated TL 15 gadget.

IMO, problems with handling standard Imperial technology only applies to characters that are fresh off a lower TL world. As soon as he has spent a term or two (no, make that 'a year or two') knocking about in the wider universe, he's pretty much up to speed when it comes to using the things around him. Repairing any of it, OTOH, requires the appropriate skills, regardless of the TL of his homeworld.


Hans

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
I know what you mean. I've got a character in my campaign from Pysadi, a TL 4 world. We reasoned that this character was a child of one of the Class C starport's workers and grew up around that facility (TL 8).

But, as soon as the character turned 18, he joined the merchants, spending the last 12 years on a TL 13 Tramp freighter.

Kinda hard to come up with a hard-n-fast rule for this character's "tech".

Obviously, someone like this would be unable to repair a complicated TL 15 gadget. But then, someone who grew up on a TL 15 world would most likely be unable to repair a complicated TL 15 gadget.

IMO, problems with handling standard Imperial technology only applies to characters that are fresh off a lower TL world. As soon as he has spent a term or two (no, make that 'a year or two') knocking about in the wider universe, he's pretty much up to speed when it comes to using the things around him. Repairing any of it, OTOH, requires the appropriate skills, regardless of the TL of his homeworld.


Hans

 

[travlar]

I think Imperial Marines would be trained for TL15 equipment, and probably use it to. Of course, Imperial lower TL equipment would probably be made to work like TL15 equipment.

 

[travlar]

I think Imperial Marines would be trained for TL15 equipment, and probably use it to. Of course, Imperial lower TL equipment would probably be made to work like TL15 equipment.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by flykiller:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />I just don't see where TL 14 or 15 equipment would come from ....

from the same place the tech 14 and 15 naval ships come from. not to be flippant, but 9F rhylanor is only 8 parsecs away, a mere two jumps for in-fleet supply vessels (notice celepina right smack between rhylanor and aramis), so in addition to the normal supply system and depot stocks unscheduled requests are a mere five to six weeks away from fulfilment by a standard weekly run. </font>[/QUOTE]The man speaks sense.

-S4

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by flykiller:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />I just don't see where TL 14 or 15 equipment would come from ....

from the same place the tech 14 and 15 naval ships come from. not to be flippant, but 9F rhylanor is only 8 parsecs away, a mere two jumps for in-fleet supply vessels (notice celepina right smack between rhylanor and aramis), so in addition to the normal supply system and depot stocks unscheduled requests are a mere five to six weeks away from fulfilment by a standard weekly run. </font>[/QUOTE]The man speaks sense.

-S4

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by rancke:
The TL of 10 shown for Regina in The Spinward Marches and all the early adventures is presumably a mistake that was rectified in The Spinward Marches Campaign (unless you consider it plausible that Regina would jump two tech levels in just five years (actually, a lot less than five years)). The true TL is 12, which could easily accomodate a Space TL of 13. As for the Kinunir, there's no need for it to be TL15; TL13 is enough to account for its jump-4 drive.

This man speaks sense too.

BTW, I really, really like the idea that Regina, being in the heart of the FFW, jumped two TL in less than the five years.

I think I'll use that in my campaign. Right now, my game is set in 1105. Cool.

-S4

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by rancke:
The TL of 10 shown for Regina in The Spinward Marches and all the early adventures is presumably a mistake that was rectified in The Spinward Marches Campaign (unless you consider it plausible that Regina would jump two tech levels in just five years (actually, a lot less than five years)). The true TL is 12, which could easily accomodate a Space TL of 13. As for the Kinunir, there's no need for it to be TL15; TL13 is enough to account for its jump-4 drive.

This man speaks sense too.

BTW, I really, really like the idea that Regina, being in the heart of the FFW, jumped two TL in less than the five years.

I think I'll use that in my campaign. Right now, my game is set in 1105. Cool.

-S4

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by rancke:
Repairing any of it, OTOH, requires the appropriate skills, regardless of the TL of his homeworld.

OK, but say you've got two characters. Both have the same EDU. Both have Computer-2.

One is from a TL-8 World.

One is from a TL-14 World.

You're in a TL-13 Far Trader, and the computer system is on the blink.

Who repairs it? Will both the above characters have the same shot?

Don't you think that both characters should get a shot at repairing the ship's computer, but shouldn't the TL 14 character have a weighted shot at success over the TL 8 character?

So, as a GM, how would you handle this in a game?

-S4

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by rancke:
Repairing any of it, OTOH, requires the appropriate skills, regardless of the TL of his homeworld.

OK, but say you've got two characters. Both have the same EDU. Both have Computer-2.

One is from a TL-8 World.

One is from a TL-14 World.

You're in a TL-13 Far Trader, and the computer system is on the blink.

Who repairs it? Will both the above characters have the same shot?

Don't you think that both characters should get a shot at repairing the ship's computer, but shouldn't the TL 14 character have a weighted shot at success over the TL 8 character?

So, as a GM, how would you handle this in a game?

-S4

 

[flykiller]

Both have Computer-2 ... So, as a GM, how would you handle this in a game?

I'd go by where they learned computer 2.

when I went through nuclear power school in the navy they started everyone at BEE, where they assume you know absolutely nothing at all and the first lesson is to build a light circuit using a wire, a battery, and a light bulb. a year later we were calculating flux distributions in a core.

in CT most skills are learned in-service, and one may assume that the services have schools and OJT specifically designed to take low-tech recruits and teach them what they need to know to understand and operate equipment appropriate to the service.

 

[flykiller]

Both have Computer-2 ... So, as a GM, how would you handle this in a game?

I'd go by where they learned computer 2.

when I went through nuclear power school in the navy they started everyone at BEE, where they assume you know absolutely nothing at all and the first lesson is to build a light circuit using a wire, a battery, and a light bulb. a year later we were calculating flux distributions in a core.

in CT most skills are learned in-service, and one may assume that the services have schools and OJT specifically designed to take low-tech recruits and teach them what they need to know to understand and operate equipment appropriate to the service.

 

[Sifu Blackirish]

( ever see a comp user raised on GUI's stare shell shocked at a console's blinking cursur?)

Personal experience here...I joined the Marines, spent over a year in extensive electronics training (probably equal to Computer-2 and Electronics-2), then tech progress passed me by. My TL-6 knowledge is useless with TL8.5 systems. Now I have Computer-0 (I know how to turn it on).

when I went through nuclear power school in the navy they started everyone at BEE,

Did you perchance do your basic training at NAS Millington? That's where I went through AFUN-P, BE&E, AVA and AFTA. Someone out here will know what those terms mean...

 

[Sifu Blackirish]

( ever see a comp user raised on GUI's stare shell shocked at a console's blinking cursur?)

Personal experience here...I joined the Marines, spent over a year in extensive electronics training (probably equal to Computer-2 and Electronics-2), then tech progress passed me by. My TL-6 knowledge is useless with TL8.5 systems. Now I have Computer-0 (I know how to turn it on).

when I went through nuclear power school in the navy they started everyone at BEE,

Did you perchance do your basic training at NAS Millington? That's where I went through AFUN-P, BE&E, AVA and AFTA. Someone out here will know what those terms mean...

 

[flykiller]

Did you perchance do your basic training at NAS Millington?

nope, great lakes. eight week bootcamp, seven with huge blisters on my feet. ugly. then BdoubleE up the road, followed by EM-A down the street.

 

[flykiller]

Did you perchance do your basic training at NAS Millington?

nope, great lakes. eight week bootcamp, seven with huge blisters on my feet. ugly. then BdoubleE up the road, followed by EM-A down the street.

 

[BlackBat242]

Dominion Loyalty Officer... I had those exact same courses 9/81-1/83... ended up at MCAS El Toro fixing the IR/Laser system on A-6 Intruders (AIMD). {check my entry on pg 35 of the "who are we" on lone star}

The squiddlies hated that the instructors made us all march from the barracks to the school building during the first two schools... and they had to try not to let us "mobile trees" show them up too badly.


Flykiller... "Great Mistakes", eh? Too bad

I did my boot at MCRD San Diego, where we saw you guys lazing about at the Navy boot on the other side of the north fence. I did like that they let us keep the one that jumped the wrong fence. He was trying to run away from Navy boot, and ended up in Marine boot for 2 weeks before we let him go back.

 

[BlackBat242]

Dominion Loyalty Officer... I had those exact same courses 9/81-1/83... ended up at MCAS El Toro fixing the IR/Laser system on A-6 Intruders (AIMD). {check my entry on pg 35 of the "who are we" on lone star}

The squiddlies hated that the instructors made us all march from the barracks to the school building during the first two schools... and they had to try not to let us "mobile trees" show them up too badly.


Flykiller... "Great Mistakes", eh? Too bad

I did my boot at MCRD San Diego, where we saw you guys lazing about at the Navy boot on the other side of the north fence. I did like that they let us keep the one that jumped the wrong fence. He was trying to run away from Navy boot, and ended up in Marine boot for 2 weeks before we let him go back.