At odds with a character's tech level...

[Sifu Blackirish]

BlackBat...I was at MCAS El Toro too! Small world...

 

[Sifu Blackirish]

BlackBat...I was at MCAS El Toro too! Small world...

 

[BlackBat242]

When... and what squadrons?

H&MS-13 ('83-'87); H&MS-11 ('88-'89)
deployed with: [VMA(AW)-242 Japan/P.I. '84]; [VMA(AW)-121 USS Ranger '85-'87 {off & on} Westpac/Arabian Gulf last half '87]

 

[BlackBat242]

When... and what squadrons?

H&MS-13 ('83-'87); H&MS-11 ('88-'89)
deployed with: [VMA(AW)-242 Japan/P.I. '84]; [VMA(AW)-121 USS Ranger '85-'87 {off & on} Westpac/Arabian Gulf last half '87]

 

[Sifu Blackirish]

I was at H&MS-11 10/78 to 4/83.
With a Westpac tour 6/82 - 1/83 thrown in, aboard the USS Midway (CV-41).

All that electronics training, and I ended up fixing cameras!

 

[Sifu Blackirish]

I was at H&MS-11 10/78 to 4/83.
With a Westpac tour 6/82 - 1/83 thrown in, aboard the USS Midway (CV-41).

All that electronics training, and I ended up fixing cameras!

 

[atpollard]

At the risk of re-railing this topic

, do not overlook the one large difference between the real world and Traveller with respect to TL and advancing sciences - the real world does and Traveller does not.

In the real world, someone who studied "electronics" in 1957 would be useless in a 2007 "electronics" industry because of the NEW technology that has been developed.

In the Traveller universe, there are places where one could find a TL 12 electronics text book that is over 4000 years old.

Someone studying any technical skill in a culture where they are likely to encounter a broad range of TLs will likely be trained to handle a broad range of TL equipment. Education need not be TL dependant, only the practical experience with the equipment.

 

[atpollard]

At the risk of re-railing this topic

, do not overlook the one large difference between the real world and Traveller with respect to TL and advancing sciences - the real world does and Traveller does not.

In the real world, someone who studied "electronics" in 1957 would be useless in a 2007 "electronics" industry because of the NEW technology that has been developed.

In the Traveller universe, there are places where one could find a TL 12 electronics text book that is over 4000 years old.

Someone studying any technical skill in a culture where they are likely to encounter a broad range of TLs will likely be trained to handle a broad range of TL equipment. Education need not be TL dependant, only the practical experience with the equipment.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by atpollard:
...In the real world, someone who studied "electronics" in 1957 would be useless in a 2007 "electronics" industry because of the NEW technology that has been developed.

And equally a 2007 educated electronics guru would probably be totally useless trying to fix a 1957 piece of equipment

Originally posted by atpollard:
In the Traveller universe, there are places where one could find a TL 12 electronics text book that is over 4000 years old.

Someone studying any technical skill in a culture where they are likely to encounter a broad range of TLs will likely be trained to handle a broad range of TL equipment. Education need not be TL dependant, only the practical experience with the equipment.

Sounds about right to me, but then such education is going to be broader than what we'd consider complete today. More suitable to the CT basic char gen skill acquisition than to the CT expanded char gen skill acquisition or later editions.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by atpollard:
...In the real world, someone who studied "electronics" in 1957 would be useless in a 2007 "electronics" industry because of the NEW technology that has been developed.

And equally a 2007 educated electronics guru would probably be totally useless trying to fix a 1957 piece of equipment

Originally posted by atpollard:
In the Traveller universe, there are places where one could find a TL 12 electronics text book that is over 4000 years old.

Someone studying any technical skill in a culture where they are likely to encounter a broad range of TLs will likely be trained to handle a broad range of TL equipment. Education need not be TL dependant, only the practical experience with the equipment.

Sounds about right to me, but then such education is going to be broader than what we'd consider complete today. More suitable to the CT basic char gen skill acquisition than to the CT expanded char gen skill acquisition or later editions.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by atpollard:
In the Traveller universe, there are places where one could find a TL 12 electronics text book that is over 4000 years old.

Which just re-emphasizes the fact that most people in the Traveller universe don't travel. What they know is what's known on their world. There is some influx from other worlds, yes, but not as much as one might think.

I'm sure higher tech worlds are more cosmicly "cosmopolitan". But, what you get in the OTU is not unlike what it must be like living in a Third World country today--you know a lot of technology exists, but it's just not part of your world. Grandpa has a bad heart, but a heat transplant may be out of the question given where you live and what you know and are used to.

-S4

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by atpollard:
In the Traveller universe, there are places where one could find a TL 12 electronics text book that is over 4000 years old.

Which just re-emphasizes the fact that most people in the Traveller universe don't travel. What they know is what's known on their world. There is some influx from other worlds, yes, but not as much as one might think.

I'm sure higher tech worlds are more cosmicly "cosmopolitan". But, what you get in the OTU is not unlike what it must be like living in a Third World country today--you know a lot of technology exists, but it's just not part of your world. Grandpa has a bad heart, but a heat transplant may be out of the question given where you live and what you know and are used to.

-S4

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by far-trader:
And equally a 2007 educated electronics guru would probably be totally useless trying to fix a 1957 piece of equipment

Actually, I would diagree. I think a 2007 person would definately have a better go of it fixing a 1957 piece of equipment than the other way around. Even something as specialized as a computer. The big 1957 room-sized computers being fixed by a guy who works on 2007 servers. I'd put my money on the 2007 guy getting the job done on either a 1957 mainframe or a 2007 server over the other way around any day of the week.

Sounds about right to me, but then such education is going to be broader than what we'd consider complete today.

I would comment: "Maybe".

It depends on the character's career. Sure, if he's a "Traveller", then his skills are probably more broad. But, if he's not a "Traveller" (maybe a Bureaucrat or Barbarian who lives his whole life on a single world), then his skill will obviously be what he's been taught on his world--not that "broad" in CT terms.

-S4

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by far-trader:
And equally a 2007 educated electronics guru would probably be totally useless trying to fix a 1957 piece of equipment

Actually, I would diagree. I think a 2007 person would definately have a better go of it fixing a 1957 piece of equipment than the other way around. Even something as specialized as a computer. The big 1957 room-sized computers being fixed by a guy who works on 2007 servers. I'd put my money on the 2007 guy getting the job done on either a 1957 mainframe or a 2007 server over the other way around any day of the week.

Sounds about right to me, but then such education is going to be broader than what we'd consider complete today.

I would comment: "Maybe".

It depends on the character's career. Sure, if he's a "Traveller", then his skills are probably more broad. But, if he's not a "Traveller" (maybe a Bureaucrat or Barbarian who lives his whole life on a single world), then his skill will obviously be what he's been taught on his world--not that "broad" in CT terms.

-S4

 

[atpollard]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by far-trader:
And equally a 2007 educated electronics guru would probably be totally useless trying to fix a 1957 piece of equipment

Actually, I would diagree. I think a 2007 person would definately have a better go of it fixing a 1957 piece of equipment than the other way around. Even something as specialized as a computer. The big 1957 room-sized computers being fixed by a guy who works on 2007 servers. I'd put my money on the 2007 guy getting the job done on either a 1957 mainframe or a 2007 server over the other way around any day of the week.</font>[/QUOTE]The real world answer is beyond my scope of expertise, but the basic assumption that the 2007 Tech would know the theory behind 1957 Electronics, and have a 'chance' to fix it is exactly how I would imagine all Traveler Tech skills to work (in both TL directions). The theory is universal knowledge (not restricted by TL) but the practice is very much a product of local conditions. This explains how a Navy Engineer can grow up on a TL 10 world, serve on a TL 15 warship and 'retire' to a TL 13 free trader.

A character from a TL 4 or less culture might be a different case, but be honest, most Characters are from a TL 12 to TL 15 world and part of the "Intertsellar" civilization.

 

[atpollard]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by far-trader:
And equally a 2007 educated electronics guru would probably be totally useless trying to fix a 1957 piece of equipment

Actually, I would diagree. I think a 2007 person would definately have a better go of it fixing a 1957 piece of equipment than the other way around. Even something as specialized as a computer. The big 1957 room-sized computers being fixed by a guy who works on 2007 servers. I'd put my money on the 2007 guy getting the job done on either a 1957 mainframe or a 2007 server over the other way around any day of the week.</font>[/QUOTE]The real world answer is beyond my scope of expertise, but the basic assumption that the 2007 Tech would know the theory behind 1957 Electronics, and have a 'chance' to fix it is exactly how I would imagine all Traveler Tech skills to work (in both TL directions). The theory is universal knowledge (not restricted by TL) but the practice is very much a product of local conditions. This explains how a Navy Engineer can grow up on a TL 10 world, serve on a TL 15 warship and 'retire' to a TL 13 free trader.

A character from a TL 4 or less culture might be a different case, but be honest, most Characters are from a TL 12 to TL 15 world and part of the "Intertsellar" civilization.

 

[atpollard]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
Grandpa has a bad heart, but a heat transplant may be out of the question given where you live and what you know and are used to.

I suspect that this is a product of poverty more than the availability of technology. The same is true of a homeless man on the streets of any American city.

A farmer who grows drugs in the 'third world' can ride his ox cart to the city and purchase chinese made RPGs for his AK-47 (I assume that an ak-47 can fire a RPG - if not, then insert the correct small arms).

 

[atpollard]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
Grandpa has a bad heart, but a heat transplant may be out of the question given where you live and what you know and are used to.

I suspect that this is a product of poverty more than the availability of technology. The same is true of a homeless man on the streets of any American city.

A farmer who grows drugs in the 'third world' can ride his ox cart to the city and purchase chinese made RPGs for his AK-47 (I assume that an ak-47 can fire a RPG - if not, then insert the correct small arms).

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
BTW, I really, really like the idea that Regina, being in the heart of the FFW, jumped two TL in less than the five years.

Well, if it works for you, go for it. As for me, not only do I consider the notion of a world jumping two tech levels in less than 5 years (much less; I can't say how much less, because I haven't checked when the last reference to a Tl 10 Regina was dated, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a TNS newsbrief from 1110) implausible, but I really, really dislike the notion that Regina, dominant world of the Regina Cluster for most of a millenium and capital of an entire Imperial duchy for five centuries, ever were TL 10 (I'm not thrilled with the TL 12, either, but I'm resigned to working with it ).

I think I'll use that in my campaign. Right now, my game is set in 1105. Cool.

As I said, if it works for you, good luck with it.


Hans

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
BTW, I really, really like the idea that Regina, being in the heart of the FFW, jumped two TL in less than the five years.

Well, if it works for you, go for it. As for me, not only do I consider the notion of a world jumping two tech levels in less than 5 years (much less; I can't say how much less, because I haven't checked when the last reference to a Tl 10 Regina was dated, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a TNS newsbrief from 1110) implausible, but I really, really dislike the notion that Regina, dominant world of the Regina Cluster for most of a millenium and capital of an entire Imperial duchy for five centuries, ever were TL 10 (I'm not thrilled with the TL 12, either, but I'm resigned to working with it ).

I think I'll use that in my campaign. Right now, my game is set in 1105. Cool.

As I said, if it works for you, good luck with it.


Hans