Auxiliaries and Support Ships

[flykiller]

is anyone finding the ship I am explicating useful or interesting? if not I'll move on to something else.

 

[McPerth]

is anyone finding the ship I am explicating useful or interesting? if not I'll move on to something else.

Sure they are.

Just a question over them: I see none of them is over 5000 dtons; are they for a small ship universe?

 

[McPerth]

McPerth was right about his issue with 300kg surrogates, though, if I remember correctly, CT, Book 8, Robots would make the size a bit more acceptable?

AB 101 was designed according Bk8 rules. In fact, it's shown as a robot example in Page 40 of this same book...

 

[flykiller]

Just a question over them: I see none of them is over 5000 dtons; are they for a small ship universe?

ah. that is a problem. I am failing to describe it properly.

the ship is 19,000 dtons. this includes a 4,900 dton module that can be outfitted for various roles such as cargo, fuel, hospital, repair, or troop transport tasks. so there is no individual hospital ship or individual cargo ship etc, instead there is a general purpose ship that may carry various modules to fulfill those tasks and functions as needed.

 

[Condottiere]

Basically, an oversized interstellar cutter.

Presumably these are five to ten modules that would be attached depending on the mission.

You could have another smaller class of ship that would only carry one or two of these modules.

 

[rancke]

Basically, an oversized interstellar cutter.

Presumably these are five to ten modules that would be attached depending on the mission.

You could have another smaller class of ship that would only carry one or two of these modules.

Star Trek Star Fleet Technical Manual has a ship design that uses the concept.[*] If I can find it I'll post the different kinds of modules.

[*] It shouldn't be necessary to say this, but experience has taught me that it is: I am not in any way implying that Flykiller got his idea from the Technical Manual.​

Hans

 

[Vladika]

is anyone finding the ship I am explicating useful or interesting? if not I'll move on to something else.

Finding it very useful, just been swamped at home.

 

[flykiller]

Presumably these are five to ten modules that would be attached depending on the mission.

You could have another smaller class of ship that would only carry one or two of these modules.

if I understand you correctly, no. the alice can carry any one module but only one at a time. its overall size is limited by the tech 10 capacity of the porozlo yards. the module is 1) limited to 4900 dtons by the tech 9 capacity of the junidy yards, 2) must be 4900 dtons to be large enough to play a significant role, and 3) very conveniently fits almost exactly the available cargo capacity of the alice at tech10/j4/m2.

 

[flykiller]

the 4900dton hospital module consists of the following:

three hospital decks. each may operate independently or in concert with the other two, each deck activating and hospital personnel coming out of lowberths as desired or necessary. all personnel are allotted military facilities including two dtons of stateroom, .5 dtons of equipment locker, and .5 dtons of lowberth, including all other associated support facilities such as offices, entertainment, training, life support, damage control stations, and cargo for the imperial fleet standard of ten months cruising endurance. each hospital deck includes the following:

4 20dton gig rescue/recovery amulances with associated bays and support, each having
2 grav cranes, 2 paramedics, and 2 damage control technicians, and 1 robot assistant
10 doctors
20 nurses
40 aides
30 general support staff
20 robots (total) and associated standby bays
80 dtons of intake/triage space
2 20dton surgical theaters, 8 20dton surgery recovery bays
4 20dton treatment theaters
40 2dton inpatient staterooms
100 lowberths
80 dtons equipment/supplies
4 lifeboats sufficient for all personnel
2 ship's boat gigs with associated bays and support
2 airrafts with associated bays and support

medical personnel have a payscale and duty status similar to those held by the repair facility. in addition to dealing with medical emergencies beyond the capacity of normal ship's doctors these hospitals also operate as medical missionaries in isolated populations of systems where the fleet is located at any time. while marine battalions have their own medical facilities hospital ships frequently will supplement this capability where necessary.

 

[Timerover51]

After thinking about it, in some respects, interstellar warfare in Traveller, given the limitations of the Jump Drive, resembles naval operations during the Victorian Period prior to the development of Radio, and based on coal-fired ships of somewhat limited range. When the Spanish Admiral Cervera sailed across the Atlantic with his squadron, he first priority was getting coal for his squadron, and once refueled at Martinique, which port in Cuba could he reach that had coal for his ships. Once at sea, he had no way of communicating with anyone without sending a ship to a shore telegraph station. Looking at Trillion Credit Squadron, refueling times are given along with fuel availability at the various categories of starports.

While coaling at sea was done to a limited extent during World War 1, and before, it took time and the bugs were still being worked out around 1900, so earlier than that, once a fleet committed to an overseas voyage, they could not be recalled unless you sent a ship after them that could locate them, and they may be in need of serious fuel once they arrive at their destination. There are similarities to Traveller in that.

 

[Piper]

the 4900dton hospital module consists of the following:

Not sure if they're included as general treatment spaces but you might want to consider adding a few hyperbaric chambers for decompression injuries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decompression_sickness#Treatment

Great stuff!

 

[flykiller]

Not sure if they're included as general treatment spaces but you might want to consider adding a few hyperbaric chambers for decompression injuries.

it's better to take a more general approach than attempt to specify specific equipment for specific treatments. but I envision significant compartmentalization in all my ships - they operate at hazard in a vaccuum after all - so any given isolable space could be used as a hyperbaric chamber. for example, inpatient staterooms could be isolable (for many medical reasons) and thus be hyperbaric chambers as necessary.

 

[aramis]

Vladika:

In re bordellos:

Spoiler:

Several historical examples of brothels aboard ships exist - none that were commissioned by the military that I recall, but it's worth noting that floating bordellos are a fixture from the 18th C onward.

Some were not operating as a bordello afloat, EG:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Juliana
A ship of convicted criminals, mostly prostitutes, sent to Australia.

Others were tax evasions, EG:
http://www.offbeatoregon.com/H1007d_floating-bordello-in-portland.html

Others still made their money by other methods, but supported prostitutes. Samuel Clemens wrote of prostitutes as features on many riverboats. (Both slave and free. Ron Powers' bio of Mark Twain (Google Books link))

Firefly's soiled dove aboard is basically taken straight from the 1850's history. The term Hooker is a Civil War term - dubbed originally "General Hooker's Girls" it later generalized to all military camp follower prostitutes, and further on to all prostitutes.

As far as the Japanese Comfort Women, Yuki Tanaka notes that the IJN had shoreside brothels in the late 30's. (Google Books Link).
So, given the history, and that it's been a theme in several Sci-Fi novels, brothel ships, possibly privately owned, are likely to be part of the auxiliary "fleet" if any entertainment ships are. The Naval history is rife with accusations of "Isolation Homosexuality" - and Naval crews are notorious for prostitute seeking on liberty.

The example that comes to mind clearest is in Space: Above and Beyond, episode R&R. There are examples in two novels I've read from other series, but I can't recall titles at the moment for those.

 

[pendragonman]

Aramis:

re spoiler: Thanks. It was where I was going without hammering the nail too directly.

 

[Piper]

So, Aramis ... are your naval joy-bots gummint property or are they run by independant contractors?

I shudder at the thought of low bidders on that contract; Darryl Hannah in 'Blade Runner' comes to mind.

Also, FWIW, there were some peculiar solutions to the celibacy issue brought out in Joe Haldeman's "The Forever War".

Edit: also, David Drake touched upon field brothels in a few of his stories. Key element in one.

 

[Vladika]

And in not one single source you have sited is there any mention of a Commissioned Naval Ship involved. That was my point, my statement and, if that's all you have FACT.

Why are you so seemingly disposed to trash the military? I did read an old post of yours that might just shed some light on that, but I'll ask you. Why?

Vladika:

In re bordellos:

Spoiler:

Several historical examples of brothels aboard ships exist - none that were commissioned by the military that I recall, but it's worth noting that floating bordellos are a fixture from the 18th C onward.

Some were not operating as a bordello afloat, EG:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Juliana
A ship of convicted criminals, mostly prostitutes, sent to Australia.

Spoiler:

A ship of 401 tons, she was chartered to transport female convicts.[2] Her master was Thomas Edgar who had sailed with James Cook on his last voyage. The surgeon was Richard Alley who was apparently competent by the standards of the day, but made little attempt to maintain discipline.

Civilian Ship. NOT military, and that was exactly my point.

Others were tax evasions, EG:
http://www.offbeatoregon.com/H1007d_floating-bordello-in-portland.html

Riverboat-brothel operator Nancy Boggs took customers from both sides of the river, paid no liquor taxes to City Hall; in 1870s Oregon, it was the money, not the morals, that rankled.

Civilian Ship. NOT military, and that was exactly my point.

Others still made their money by other methods, but supported prostitutes. Samuel Clemens wrote of prostitutes as features on many riverboats. (Both slave and free. Ron Powers' bio of Mark Twain (Google Books link))

Civilian Ship. NOT military, and that was exactly my point.

Firefly's soiled dove aboard is basically taken straight from the 1850's history. The term Hooker is a Civil War term - dubbed originally "General Hooker's Girls" it later generalized to all military camp follower prostitutes, and further on to all prostitutes.

Firefly FICTION.

There is a popular legend that "hooker" as a slang term for a prostitute is derived from his last name[20] because of parties and a lack of military discipline at his headquarters near the Murder Bay district of Washington, DC. Some versions of the legend claim that the band of prostitutes that followed his division were derisively referred to as "General Hooker's Army" or "Hooker's Brigade."[21] However, the term "hooker" was used in print as early as 1845, years before Hooker was a public figure

Again, not under military command.

As far as the Japanese Comfort Women, Yuki Tanaka notes that the IJN had shoreside brothels in the late 30's. (Google Books Link).

From your own source: "established primarily as a VD prevention method" read further.

Also, at that time, I believe I SHOULD be safe here (Your rule. Not post WW2), the Japanese behaved as pure scum.

So, given the history, and that it's been a theme in several Sci-Fi novels, brothel ships, possibly privately owned, are likely to be part of the auxiliary "fleet" if any entertainment ships are. The Naval history is rife with accusations of "Isolation Homosexuality" - and Naval crews are notorious for prostitute seeking on liberty.

This tread was about MILITARY auxiliaries, as you well know. Not about assorted private trash that follows along.

Besides, this is subjective and conjectural based on FANTASY literature.

The example that comes to mind clearest is in Space: Above and Beyond, episode R&R. There are examples in two novels I've read from other series, but I can't recall titles at the moment for those.

Again, FANTASY.

 

[aramis]

So, Aramis ... are your naval joy-bots gummint property or are they run by independant contractors?

I shudder at the thought of low bidders on that contract; Darryl Hannah in 'Blade Runner' comes to mind.

Also, FWIW, there were some peculiar solutions to the celibacy issue brought out in Joe Haldeman's "The Forever War".

Edit: also, David Drake touched upon field brothels in a few of his stories. Key element in one.

IMTU, they're usually private property of campfollower boats making bang for the buck on being with the fleet. The fleet has the same deal for a variety of entertainment options. Military guys being what they are, I expect a lot of seedy options, with a few erudite ones.

 

[Timerover51]

With respect to the convict ship to Australia. The first settlement fleet had the following personnel on it. The excerpt is taken from the account of Marine Captain Watkin Tench, available for download from Project Gutenberg, just search under Australia.

In the transports were embarked four captains, twelve subalterns, twenty-four serjeants and corporals, eight drummers, and one hundred and sixty private marines, making the whole of the military force, including the Major Commandant and Staff on board the Sirius, to consist of two hundred and twelve persons, of whom two hundred and ten were volunteers. The number of convicts was five hundred and sixty-five men, one hundred and ninety-two women, and eighteen children; the major part of the prisoners were mechanics and husbandmen, selected on purpose by order of Government.

My emphasis added, as the first fleet was disproportionately male, with later ships of female convicts intended not to serve as prostitutes, but to supply wives for the convicts already there. All ships normally promptly returned to England following disembarkation of the convicts. I also think, from looking over the 3 sources that I have on the first fleet, that Captain Tench included the wives and female children of the Marines and other officers with the female convicts.

Captain Tench served on the transport Charlotte, which carried the following numbers.

The Charlotte, of 346 tons, had on board 89 male and 20 female convicts; 1 captain, 2 lieutenants, 2 sergeants, 3 corporals, 1 drummer, and 35 privates, with the principal surgeon of the colony.

The military were Marines, carried in addition to the normal ships crew, who also remained behind for a period of time at the colony.

Also carried on the fleet were the following addition civilians, not convicts.

There were on board, beside these, 28 women, 8 male and 6 female children, belonging to the soldiers of the detachment, together with 6 male and 7 female children belonging to the convicts.

The second two quotes come from the following source, also available for download on Project Gutenberg: An Account of the English Colony in New
South Wales, Vol. 1, by David Collins

One more item of information from Captain Tench.

To add to the good disposition which was beginning to manifest itself, on the morning of the 20th, in consequence of some favorable representations made by the officers commanding detachments, they were hailed and told from the Sirius, that in those cases where they judged it proper, they were at liberty to release the convicts from the fetters in which they had been hitherto confined. In complying with these directions, I had great pleasure in being able to extend this humane order to the whole of those under my charge, without a single exception. It is hardly necessary for me to say, that the precaution of ironing the convicts at any time reached to the men only.

Aramis, start posting your sources for your statements so that the others on the forum can check the accuracy of them as well.

 

[Vladika]

IMTU, they're usually private property of campfollower boats making bang for the buck on being with the fleet. The fleet has the same deal for a variety of entertainment options. Military guys being what they are, I expect a lot of seedy options, with a few erudite ones.

SOME for sure. That's a pretty broad brush you are using to paint all of us with.

 

[Timerover51]

IMTU, they're usually private property of campfollower boats making bang for the buck on being with the fleet. The fleet has the same deal for a variety of entertainment options. Military guys being what they are, I expect a lot of seedy options, with a few erudite ones.

As a veteran of the US military, I am more than a bit insulted by the comment, as I suspect that most if not all of the veterans here.

I have also filed formal complaints about your comments with Spinward Scout, McPerth, Cryton, and Mark Miller. I strongly encourage all other veterans to do the same. Enough is enough.