mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Nice work - I'll be borrowing this 
Book 2 Plus
- Thread starter robject
- Start date
Battery Fire
Back to the battery fire problem. The solution, I think most of us agree, is one of (a) separating to-hit from damage, or (b) using statistical averaging at some point.
Separating to-hit from damage is easier for brains to deal with, while using statistics is better when very large weapon arrays are being used. So a total solution would have elements of each.
One roll, sum the damage
At the simplest level, when you fire more than one weapon of each type as one battery, you roll one time, and sum up the damage.
Example. firing a triple, a double, and a single turret beam laser results in one to-hit roll (8+ for beam lasers) using the single best DM available (in this case, there are no DMs), and inflicts 6 hits (if it hits).
Example. firing ten single laser turrets results in one to-hit roll (8+), and would inflict 10 hits.
Weapons and Mounts
It seems that the weapon type determines the base to-hit and damage, and the weapon's mount has optional damage and to-hit modifiers.
With only a minor loss of granularity, I can then divide turrets into two types: a standard turret with damage +0 and to-hit +0, and a pulse turret with damage +1 and to-hit -1.
Example. Five double pulse-turret lasers has a to-hit of 7+, and does 15 hits (10 lasers, +1 per pulse turret).
This system provides an easy way to plug in non-Book2 weapons. For example, a particle accelerator might have a to-hit of 7+ and a damage of 1 hit + 1 radiation hit.
Example. A single PA turret has a to-hit of 7+, and does 1 regular hit and 1 radiation hit. A single PA pulse turret has a to-hit of 8+, and does 2 regular hits. Five double PA pulse turrets has a to-hit of 8+, and does 15 regular hits and 10 radiation hits.
This system provides an easy way to plug in barbettes and bays. For example, a barbette might have to-hit +2. Installing a Pulse Barbette would increase damage and decrease to-hit.
This system yields two variations on one weapon. For example, one PA in a Barbette has a to-hit of 5+ and a damage of 1, but a PA in a Pulse Barbette has a to-hit of 6+ and a damage of 2.
Example. Eight dual PA pulse barbettes have a to-hit of 6+ and a damage of 24 hits, 16 radiation hits.
Armor
No matter what the mechanic is, armor levels have to be tuned to work with to-hit numbers, then to map High Guard armor levels to these levels, permitting easy transfer between the two.
Implications
The results of this system is that few civilian ships will be able to damage a Patrol Cruiser, because we'd slather some armor on the Patrol Cruiser. This is a Good Thing. But, it also means that two Patrol Cruisers that go head-to-head can still hurt each other, since superior mounts can cancel out the benefits of armor. In other words, we'd probably try to squeeze in a barbette or two.
So the military-oriented Book 2 ships would get a much-needed, minor facelift: they'd get armor, and probably some upgraded weapons too.
This also means that High Guard ships no longer have a design advantage over Book 2 ships, and the playing field is essentially leveled. These combat rules use the same weapons as those found in HG, and even though the rules are simpler, HG ships won't necessarily be at a disadvantage.
Back to the battery fire problem. The solution, I think most of us agree, is one of (a) separating to-hit from damage, or (b) using statistical averaging at some point.
Separating to-hit from damage is easier for brains to deal with, while using statistics is better when very large weapon arrays are being used. So a total solution would have elements of each.
One roll, sum the damage
At the simplest level, when you fire more than one weapon of each type as one battery, you roll one time, and sum up the damage.
Example. firing a triple, a double, and a single turret beam laser results in one to-hit roll (8+ for beam lasers) using the single best DM available (in this case, there are no DMs), and inflicts 6 hits (if it hits).
Example. firing ten single laser turrets results in one to-hit roll (8+), and would inflict 10 hits.
Weapons and Mounts
It seems that the weapon type determines the base to-hit and damage, and the weapon's mount has optional damage and to-hit modifiers.
With only a minor loss of granularity, I can then divide turrets into two types: a standard turret with damage +0 and to-hit +0, and a pulse turret with damage +1 and to-hit -1.
Example. Five double pulse-turret lasers has a to-hit of 7+, and does 15 hits (10 lasers, +1 per pulse turret).
This system provides an easy way to plug in non-Book2 weapons. For example, a particle accelerator might have a to-hit of 7+ and a damage of 1 hit + 1 radiation hit.
Example. A single PA turret has a to-hit of 7+, and does 1 regular hit and 1 radiation hit. A single PA pulse turret has a to-hit of 8+, and does 2 regular hits. Five double PA pulse turrets has a to-hit of 8+, and does 15 regular hits and 10 radiation hits.
This system provides an easy way to plug in barbettes and bays. For example, a barbette might have to-hit +2. Installing a Pulse Barbette would increase damage and decrease to-hit.
This system yields two variations on one weapon. For example, one PA in a Barbette has a to-hit of 5+ and a damage of 1, but a PA in a Pulse Barbette has a to-hit of 6+ and a damage of 2.
Example. Eight dual PA pulse barbettes have a to-hit of 6+ and a damage of 24 hits, 16 radiation hits.
Armor
No matter what the mechanic is, armor levels have to be tuned to work with to-hit numbers, then to map High Guard armor levels to these levels, permitting easy transfer between the two.
Implications
The results of this system is that few civilian ships will be able to damage a Patrol Cruiser, because we'd slather some armor on the Patrol Cruiser. This is a Good Thing. But, it also means that two Patrol Cruisers that go head-to-head can still hurt each other, since superior mounts can cancel out the benefits of armor. In other words, we'd probably try to squeeze in a barbette or two.
So the military-oriented Book 2 ships would get a much-needed, minor facelift: they'd get armor, and probably some upgraded weapons too.
This also means that High Guard ships no longer have a design advantage over Book 2 ships, and the playing field is essentially leveled. These combat rules use the same weapons as those found in HG, and even though the rules are simpler, HG ships won't necessarily be at a disadvantage.
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Thread Resurrect
The Book 2 Way
...is not necessarily crippled, but rather simpler than HG et al.
Armor, the Book 2 Way
Armor is added in layers of a constant volume, with a layer's volume depending on the hull volume via a slight curve.
So a 100t hull's base layer is 4-tons, the 200t hull is 6-tons, the 300t hull is 8-tons, the 400t hull is 10-tons, then from there it's 1 ton more to the base layer per 100 tons.
The Volume of a layer of armor = [base layer volume x layer number], with the first layer "free".
The Book 2 Way puts this into a table, of course, and hides the formula.
The Armor Value, or AV, of each armor layer is equal to the hulls' TL.
So, a TL11 Scout with 1 layer of armor has AV 11.
A TL11 Scout with 2 layers of armor has AV 22.
Volume required is
(first layer free) + (base layer x layer number)
= 0 + (4 x 2 )
= 8 tons
Weapons, the Book 2 Way
Weapon mount maps to damage, in dice. Single turret = 1D. Triple turret = 3D. Barbette = 5D. 50t Bay = 10D. 100t Bay = 20D. Missiles multiply this damage x 2. Nukes x 5.
AV is subtracted from damage. A positive number results in an internal hit; zero or a negative number results in an external hit.
Battery Fire. Group multiple weapons of the same type into one attack: choose the weapon which rolls the task. If the attack succeeds, sum the damage from all weapons in the battery.
The Book 2 Way
...is not necessarily crippled, but rather simpler than HG et al.
Armor, the Book 2 Way
Armor is added in layers of a constant volume, with a layer's volume depending on the hull volume via a slight curve.
So a 100t hull's base layer is 4-tons, the 200t hull is 6-tons, the 300t hull is 8-tons, the 400t hull is 10-tons, then from there it's 1 ton more to the base layer per 100 tons.
The Volume of a layer of armor = [base layer volume x layer number], with the first layer "free".
The Book 2 Way puts this into a table, of course, and hides the formula.
The Armor Value, or AV, of each armor layer is equal to the hulls' TL.
So, a TL11 Scout with 1 layer of armor has AV 11.
A TL11 Scout with 2 layers of armor has AV 22.
Volume required is
(first layer free) + (base layer x layer number)
= 0 + (4 x 2 )
= 8 tons
Weapons, the Book 2 Way
Weapon mount maps to damage, in dice. Single turret = 1D. Triple turret = 3D. Barbette = 5D. 50t Bay = 10D. 100t Bay = 20D. Missiles multiply this damage x 2. Nukes x 5.
AV is subtracted from damage. A positive number results in an internal hit; zero or a negative number results in an external hit.
Battery Fire. Group multiple weapons of the same type into one attack: choose the weapon which rolls the task. If the attack succeeds, sum the damage from all weapons in the battery.
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Gray Pennell
SOC-12
ROFLOL Rodger I read all of this thread to get that message from you. I want to shoot myself
Did any of it ever get summarized anywhere as suggested?
ROFLOL Rodger I read all of this thread to get that message from you. I want to shoot myself
Summary
This thread was about two subjects of Book 2:
(1) The drive potential table / smoothing out drive formula, Book 2 style.
(2) Making combat work when you have a lot of weapons. The simpler, the better.
(a) There is a logarithmic element to weapons (the to-hit roll).
(b) There is a statistical element to hit location.
(c) Damage tends to be linear.
The simplest way to account for all three is to let emplacements have the logarithmic to-hit mod and a linear damage rating, the weapon type specify the range of attack and the damage type, armor soak up damage linearly, and the location table be statistically-distributed (and the more general, the better).
(3) There are other considerations as well, dealt with in the more recent thread -- mostly shopping list issues, i.e. the components used in the canon small starships which don't show up in the rules, but ought to at least be listed.
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