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Book 2 Plus

I did this hit location chart for PC scale High Guard combat:
Here are the damage tables reduced to the LBB2 2d system, with bits borrowed from HG version 1:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">2d6 Surface Radiation Internal
roll explosion damage explosion
2 fuel weapon crew
3 weapon weapon power plant
4 fuel screen jump
5 weapon crew power plant
6 fuel computer screen
7 weapon weapon computer
8 maneuver computer jump
9 maneuver computer screen
10 misc. screen critical
11 interior crew critical
12 interior crew critical</pre>
DMs for surface explosion & radiation damage:
+ weapon factor
-4 if weapon factor 9 or less.
- armour rating
- meson screen rating for meson guns on the radiation damage table
+1 pulse laser (not on the radiation damage table)
+4 bay weapon/spinal mount
+4 nuclear missile
[/quote]
 
I did this hit location chart for PC scale High Guard combat:
Here are the damage tables reduced to the LBB2 2d system, with bits borrowed from HG version 1:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">2d6 Surface Radiation Internal
roll explosion damage explosion
2 fuel weapon crew
3 weapon weapon power plant
4 fuel screen jump
5 weapon crew power plant
6 fuel computer screen
7 weapon weapon computer
8 maneuver computer jump
9 maneuver computer screen
10 misc. screen critical
11 interior crew critical
12 interior crew critical</pre>
DMs for surface explosion & radiation damage:
+ weapon factor
-4 if weapon factor 9 or less.
- armour rating
- meson screen rating for meson guns on the radiation damage table
+1 pulse laser (not on the radiation damage table)
+4 bay weapon/spinal mount
+4 nuclear missile
[/quote]
 
Which reminds me, meson weapons and disintegrators need to be included as weapons, and nuclear dampers and screens need to be made to work in LBB2.
 
Here's how I would handle weapon systems:

Turrets: 1 ton of fire control

single - BL, PL, MR, SC

double - 2x BL, 2x PL, 2x MR, 2x SC, PG(ex.high TL), FG(ex.high TL)

triple - 3x BL, 3x PL, 3x MR, 3x SC, PG(v.high TL), FG(v.high TL), TR(ex.high TL), PA(ex.high TL)

Heavy Turret: 2t fire control

4x BL, 4xPL, 4xMR, 4x SC, PG, FG, TR (v.high TL), PA (v.high TL), MG (ex. high TL), DR (ex.high TL)

Barbette: 5t, may mount up to a heavy turret but doesn't cost any hardpoints


Bay weapons: require a crew of 4

Missile Array - 16t, may fire 9 missiles or 3 torpedos per turn, 15 reloads.

Laser bay - 10t, costs 2 hardpoints

PA bay - 12t, costs 2 hardpoints

Meson bay - 16t, costs 2 hardpoints

Disintegrator bay - 20t, costs 2 hardpoints

Repulsor bay - 10t, costs 2 hardpoints


Turret weapons:
Plasma gun, 2x damage, close range only, rapid pulse versions +1 DM for point defence

Fusion gun, +1 to hit, 2x damage, close range only, rapid pulse versions +2 DM for point defence.

PA, +1 to hit, 3x damage plus 2x radiation hits

Meson Gun, 3x damage plus 2x radiation hits, ignores armour

Disintegrator, +1 to hit, 3x damage plus 2x radiation hits, each hit reduces armour
 
My other suggestion is to rework the computers so that a TL-11 Model-1 is better than any previous Model-1, but not as good as a TL-11 Model-2.
 
Bridge systems (adapted from GT and GT:ISW)

The bridge includes avionics and flight controls, there are several versions available:

cockpit bridge - 4t, max bridge crew of 2, max computer/sensor allowed TL-8

basic bridge - 10t, max bridge crew of 5, max computer/sensor allowed TL-7

command bridge - 20t, max bridge crew 12, max computer/sensor allowed TL-6
 
Back to hit location charts - it's a bit of work, but I'd like a separate hit location chart for each type of ship based on the equipment carried for PC ships, a generic chart should do for chance encounters (but standard designs could have theirs worked out ahead of time).
 
That shouldn't be bad at all. Let me try one...

Type A

39% Hold
5.0% Hull + J-drive
0.5% Hull + M-drive
2.0% Hull + Plant
15.0% Fuel
0.5% Turret (for each)
0.5% Hull + Computer
10% Hull + Bridge
7.5% Hull + Engineering
20% Hull + Stateroom
 
Taking your percentages, and doing a transform:

2d:
2=Hull
3=MDrive
4=LBerths
5=bridge
6=Staterooms
7=Hull
8=Hold
9=Fuel
10=JDrive
11=PPlant
12=Computer

Yes, it skews the odds, but it also makes combat decidedly unhealthy for a merchant!

Type S, done same way:
Fuel 30%
Bridge 20%
SR 16%
Cargo 14%
JDrive 10%
Air/Raft 4%
PP 3%
Turret 1%
MDrive 1%
Comp 1%

2d:
2=Computer*
3=Turret*
4=Air/Raft
5=Cargo
6=Bridge
7=Hull
8=Fuel
9=Staterooms
10=JDrive
11=PPlant
12=MDrive*

* These three can be swapped, allowing for various configurations.

Process:
2=10th largest %
3=8th largest %
4=6th largest %
5=4th largest %
6=2nd largest %
7= Hull and armor only
8= Largest %
9=3rd largest %
10=5th largest %
11=7th largest %
12=9th largest %

If more than 10 entries: combine two or three equal entries as needed to make a single 1d subtable; use the combined values to fit on main.
 
I like it


Now how to handle the main compartment/engineering compartment split...

Is it worth having a 1d or 2d roll to determine the compartment and then have a table for what's in each one?

The probablility on the 1d or 2d roll would be determined by the relative size of each compartment (using a transform like Aramis has suggested above) which could then have its own hit location table.
 
Since Engineering will usually be ONLY 3 or 4 items, Why? (JD, PP, MD, FPP (borrowed from HG))

an Engineering table would almost always look like:
1D:
1-3=JD
4-5=PP
6=MD

with rare:
1d:
1-3=PP
4-5=JD
6=MD

If you're going to do that simply make it part of the main table... as a single line on the main
 
I don't know... It seems a bit complex to use a 1D6 by 1D6 matrix every time a ship is hit, especially when multiple hits are concerned...
 
Why not just read the d6s in sequence (like a percentiles roll with d10s or the speculative trade chart from LBB2)?

You get just as many entries, but none of the pain of a two-axis table lookup. Not much harder than using a 2d6 table.
 
No, Mike, d66 would not, at least not in practice. Think how cumbersome the crits were in T20 playtests....

Ideally, either 1d: fast
or 2d totalled: few enough entries to memorize, "normal" dicing
 
Though the drive names are not so great, here's my logical revision and extension to the LBB2 drive table. It goes without saying that the LBB drive TL restrictions are not in effect here. Note that prices and volumes for drives V and up are steeper than in Book 2.

Code:
Small starship drives: A-Z

		Jump Drive	Maneuver 	Power plant	
		Vol	Mcr	Vol	Mcr	Vol	Mcr
200	A	10	10	1	4	4	8
400	B	15	20	3	12	7	16
600	C	20	30	5	20	10	24
800	D	25	40	7	28	13	32
1000	E	30	50	9	36	16	40
1200	F	35	60	11	44	19	48
1400	G	40	70	13	52	22	56
1600	H	45	80	15	60	25	64
1800	J	50	90	17	68	28	72
2000	K	55	100	19	76	31	80
2200	L	60	110	21	84	34	88
2400	M	65	120	23	92	37	96
2600	N	70	130	25	100	40	104
2800	P	75	140	27	108	43	112
3000	Q	80	150	29	116	46	120
3200	R	85	160	31	124	49	128
3400	S	90	170	33	132	52	136
3600	T	95	180	35	140	55	144
3800	U	100	190	37	148	58	152
4000	V	105	200	39	156	61	160
5000	W	130	250	49	196	76	200
6000	X	155	300	59	236	91	240
8000	Y	205	400	79	316	121	320
10000	Z	255	500	99	396	151	400    * revision

"Cruiser"-class drives: Cr/A-Cr/Z

		Jump Drive	Maneuver 	Power plant	
		Vol	Mcr	Vol	Mcr	Vol	Mcr
12000	Cr/A	300	600	120	480	180	480
14000	Cr/B	350	700	140	560	210	560
16000	Cr/C	400	800	160	640	240	640
18000	Cr/D	450	900	180	720	270	720
20000	Cr/E	500	1000	200	800	300	800
22000	Cr/F	550	1100	220	880	330	880
26000	Cr/G	650	1300	260	1040	390	1040
30000	Cr/H	750	1500	300	1200	450	1200
34000	Cr/J	850	1700	340	1360	510	1360
40000	Cr/K	1000	2000	400	1600	600	1600
48000	Cr/L	1200	2400	480	1920	720	1920
56000	Cr/M	1400	2800	560	2240	840	2240
64000	Cr/N	1600	3200	640	2560	960	2560
72000	Cr/P	1800	3600	720	2880	1080	2880
80000	Cr/Q	2000	4000	800	3200	1200	3200
90000	Cr/R	2250	4500	900	3600	1350	3600
100000	Cr/S	2500	5000	1000	4000	1500	4000
120000	Cr/T	3000	6000	1200	4800	1800	4800
140000	Cr/U	3500	7000	1400	5600	2100	5600
160000	Cr/V	4000	8000	1600	6400	2400	6400
200000	Cr/W	5000	10000	2000	8000	3000	8000
240000	Cr/X	6000	12000	2400	9600	3600	9600
280000	Cr/Y	7000	14000	2800	11200	4200	11200
320000	Cr/Z	8000	16000	3200	12800	4800	12800

"Battleship"-class drives: Bb/A-Bb/Z

		Jump Drive	Maneuver 	Power plant	
		Vol	Mcr	Vol	Mcr	Vol	Mcr
360000	Bb/A	9000	18000	3600	14400	5400	14400
440000	Bb/B	11000	22000	4400	17600	6600	17600
500000	Bb/C	12500	25000	5000	20000	7500	20000
560000	Bb/D	14000	28000	5600	22400	8400	22400
640000	Bb/E	16000	32000	6400	25600	9600	25600
720000	Bb/F	18000	36000	7200	28800	10800	28800
800000	Bb/G	20000	40000	8000	32000	12000	32000
900000	Bb/H	22500	45000	9000	36000	13500	36000
1000000	Bb/J	25000	50000	10000	40000	15000	40000
1200000	Bb/K	30000	60000	12000	48000	18000	48000
1600000	Bb/L	40000	80000	16000	64000	24000	64000
2000000	Bb/M	50000	100000	20000	80000	30000	80000
2400000	Bb/N	60000	120000	24000	96000	36000	96000
2800000	Bb/P	70000	140000	28000	112000	42000	112000
3200000	Bb/Q	80000	160000	32000	128000	48000	128000
3600000	Bb/R	90000	180000	36000	144000	54000	144000
4000000	Bb/S	100000	200000	40000	160000	60000	160000
4400000	Bb/T	110000	220000	44000	176000	66000	176000
4800000	Bb/U	120000	240000	48000	192000	72000	192000
5200000	Bb/V	130000	260000	52000	208000	78000	208000
5600000	Bb/W	140000	280000	56000	224000	84000	224000
6000000	Bb/X	150000	300000	60000	240000	90000	240000
6400000	Bb/Y	160000	320000	64000	256000	96000	256000
6800000	Bb/Z	170000	340000	68000	272000	102000	272000
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Power Plant

Used in conjunction with the "heavy energy weapons" rule, the above chart can streamline large ship production into something LBB2-like. In short, the "heavy energy weapons" rule goes something like this: bump up the power plant to the next rating for each heavy energy weapon (and screen) installed.

Thus a ship with M-drive Cr/J would normally require power plant Cr/J. If it also has a 100-ton laser bay installed, it would require power plant Cr/K.

If it also had a 50-ton laser bay and a meson spine, if would require power plant Cr/M.

Implications:
</font>
  • turrets are probably ineffective against heavy armor</font>
  • 100-ton bays are more efficient than 50-ton bays</font>
  • spinal guns are more efficient than bays</font>
  • missile bays are such a bargain!</font>
  • large ships are not bound by the USP</font>
That last point could be significant. Since LBB2 ships don't use the USP, we don't necessarily have to limit a ship's weapons loadout to the USP's restrictions. A ship may have meson bays, laser bays, missile bays, and PA bays with a meson spine.

Planetoid Hulls

I think planetoid hull rules should use High Guard as a guideline. You get instant "light" armor and 85% usable volume. Upgrade to "medium" armor for an extra 10% volume, or "heavy" armor for 20% volume.

Drop Capsules

Using Adv1 as a guideline, I'd rule that drop-capsule launchers take up one hardpoint, and can launch one capsule per turn. A launcher holds 1 drop capsule; each additional capsule requires 0.5t.
 
Here's some of the drive potentials of the above, hyper-extended Book 2 drive list. Unless I am mistaken, they should be identical to LBB2 for smaller hulls (i.e. ships using drives A-V), and performance should be identical for ships using drives A-Y.
Code:
		100	200	300	400	600	800	1000	2000	3000	4000	5000
A	200	2	1									
B	400	4	2	1	1							
C	600	6	3	2	1	1						
D	800		4	2	2	1	1					
E	1000		5	3	2	1	1	1				
F	1200		6	4	3	2	1	1				
G	1400			4	3	2	1	1				
H	1600			5	4	2	2	1				
J	1800			6	4	3	2	1				
K	2000			6	5	3	2	2	1			
L	2200				5	3	2	2	1			
M	2400				6	4	3	2	1			
N	2600				6	4	3	2	1			
P	2800					4	3	2	1			
Q	3000					5	3	3	1	1		
R	3200					5	4	3	1	1		
S	3400					5	4	3	1	1		
T	3600					6	4	3	1	1		
U	3800					6	4	3	1	1		
V	4000					6	5	4	2	1	1	
W	5000						6	5	2	1	1	1
X	6000							6	3	2	1	1
Y	8000								4	2	2	1
Z	10000								5	3	2	2
Cr/A	12000								6	4	3	2
Cr/B	14000									4	3	2
Cr/C	16000									5	4	3
Cr/D	18000									6	4	3
Cr/E	20000									6	5	4
Cr/F	22000										5	4
Cr/G	26000										6	5
Cr/H	30000											6
Cr/J	34000											6


		10000	20000	30000	40000	50000	60000	70000	80000	90000
Z	10000	1								
Cr/A	12000	1								
Cr/B	14000	1								
Cr/C	16000	1								
Cr/D	18000	1								
Cr/E	20000	2	1							
Cr/F	22000	2	1							
Cr/G	26000	2	1							
Cr/H	30000	3	1	1						
Cr/J	34000	3	1	1						
Cr/K	40000	4	2	1	1					
Cr/L	48000	4	2	1	1					
Cr/M	56000	5	2	1	1	1				
Cr/N	64000	6	3	2	1	1	1			
Cr/P	72000		3	2	1	1	1	1		
Cr/Q	80000		4	2	2	1	1	1	1	
Cr/R	90000		4	3	2	1	1	1	1	1
Cr/S	100000		5	3	2	2	1	1	1	1
Cr/T	120000		6	4	3	2	2	1	1	1
Cr/U	140000			4	3	2	2	2	1	1
Cr/V	160000			5	4	3	2	2	2	1
Cr/W	200000			6	5	4	3	2	2	2
Cr/X	240000				6	4	4	3	3	2
Cr/Y	280000					5	4	4	3	3
Cr/Z	320000					6	5	4	4	3
Bb/A	360000						6	5	4	4
Bb/B	440000							6	5	4
Bb/C	500000								6	5
Bb/D	560000									6

		100000	200000	300000	400000	500000	600000	700000	800000	900000	1000000
Cr/S	100000	1									
Cr/T	120000	1									
Cr/U	140000	1									
Cr/V	160000	1									
Cr/W	200000	2	1								
Cr/X	240000	2	1								
Cr/Y	280000	2	1								
Cr/Z	320000	3	1	1							
Bb/A	360000	3	1	1							
Bb/B	440000	4	2	1	1						
Bb/C	500000	5	2	1	1	1					
Bb/D	560000	5	2	1	1	1					
Bb/E	640000	6	3	2	1	1	1				
Bb/F	720000		3	2	1	1	1	1			
Bb/G	800000		4	2	2	1	1	1	1		
Bb/H	900000		4	3	2	1	1	1	1	1	
Bb/J	1000000		5	3	2	2	1	1	1	1	1
Bb/K	1200000		6	4	3	2	2	1	1	1	1
Bb/L	1600000			5	4	3	2	2	2	1	1
Bb/M	2000000			6	5	4	3	2	2	2	2
Bb/N	2400000				6	4	4	3	3	2	2
Bb/P	2800000					5	4	4	3	3	2
Bb/Q	3200000					6	5	4	4	3	3
Bb/R	3600000						6	5	4	4	3
Bb/S	4000000						6	5	5	4	4
Bb/T	4400000							6	5	4	4
Bb/U	4800000							6	6	5	4
Bb/V	5200000								6	5	5
Bb/W 5600000									6	5
Bb/X	6000000									6	6
Bb/Y	6400000										6
Bb/Z	6800000										6
 
Last edited by a moderator:
After re-reading the posts on combat in this topic a few times, I've decided to work on a compromise that uses bits from both Sigg and Employee's suggestions.

Logarithmic Weapon Scale

Instead of using Sigg's attack strength table, I was thinking of using design as a way to simplify combat. Since we want bay weapons, then I think Employee is right in wanting a logarithmic attack scale.

In other words, having a few classes of weapons (gun, turret battery, small bay, large bay, spine) allows us to design ships with purpose in mind. Plus we might not need statistical combat tables.

That's what Battery Factors are in High Guard, more or less.

Roll for Damage

At the same time, I also think that Sigg is right in departing from CT and rolling for damage. In fact, if starship combat were more like personal combat then we've only got one combat model, instead of two. What's more, with one combat model we could impose combat scale, allowing infantry, vehicles, and starships to be involved in the same combat actions.

That's a win-win-win.

Just wild guesstimating, here. Needs a lot of work:
</font>
  • Single weapon: factor-1</font>
  • Triple turret: factor-2</font>
  • 50t bay: factor-3</font>
  • 100t bay: factor-4</font>
  • Spine: factor-5</font>
Perhaps the battery factor is the number of dice of damage to roll.


In T4, you rolled for damage, but armor absorbed part of that damage. That would work well for starship combat: certain types of armor absorbs certain types of damage.

Hull armor absorbs some kinetic & energy damage.
Reflec armor absorbs some laser damage.
Dampers absorb some radiation damage.
Screens absorb some meson energy.
Black Globes absorb some % of all damage, and fail when their absorbed energy exceeds some number.

Damage which does leak through can be applied randomly to the exposed ship systems in a manner similar to personal combat.
 
No offense to everyone’s efforts here, but the more people try to “fix” the Book 2 Starship design rules, the more I appreciate the beautiful simplicity of Book 5: Maneuver Drive = 2% of the ship for 1G; 5% for 2G; 8% for 3G; 11% for 4G; 14% for 5G and 17% for 6G.

The only thing that would have been better (in my opinion) would have been to simplify the formula even further to Maneuver Drive = 2% of ship per G of acceleration (or 3% per G). From a deckplan design perspective, that could have created 1 size of engine for each size of ship, and the number of engines = maximum acceleration in G.

Arthur
 
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