Civilian Wheeled Vehicles [IMTU]

I have a Classic Traveller PbP game ["BACKWATER"] that takes place on a TL 11 world in a TL 10-13 Universe. Many worlds in Traveller Worldgen have a POP that will require settlements to be located too far apart to make paved roads economical. Grav tech is too expensive for most people [using STRIKER/Megatraveller]. I needed a better selection of WHEELED vehicles optimized for DIRT ROADS and OFF-ROAD travel. Using DOD data for speeds as a starting point, I created some Civilian Vehicles for my worlds. I REALLY do not want to get into the HOUSE RULES on more realistic fuel consumption that was incorporated into them, or why I rounded the prices up to the nearest convenient figure ... so these are just presented as ART for you to love, hate, use or ignore as the spirit moves you ...

 

[casquilho]

I am curious why some say "1 Seat" when the image clearly has two or "2 Seat" when the image has four. Is this by design and if so, why?

 

[whartung]

These are wonderful. Great use of the new imaging technology we have today.

Minor nit, if you're doing ground travel, you're going to have roads. They may certainly be not of the highest quality, especially after weather, but there will be roads vs overland travel.

Turns out people don't like to travel on lousy roads, or riding over rocks and jumping off of cliffs. If nothing else, roads tell folks where to go. Many of the roads of yore were toll roads both as a business opportunity but also to pay for road maintenance (though not, necessarily, travel security).

Earth movers and road grading equipment, by all sorts of measures, are cheap. Cutting roads through mountains are expensive, to be sure, but even vehicles like those listed here would not be able to overland through mountains (maybe the bikes, but, boy, honestly, that would be hell. Get a horse, or a high low tech walker vehicle.)

You don't have to pave the roads, but someone will lay the route, dig out some river crossings, perhaps set up a ferry, maybe build a bridge or two, and at least move the big rocks (greater than 6" in diameter) out of the way.

 

[gchuck]

These are great!
How bout a 6 pax mini-van?

 

[atpollard]

Very nice, might want to bundle it into a book.

Those are some pretty cheap vehicles on the lower end, depends on what your economic model is. Even the lower end soldiers from Striker/LBB4 will be buying their bikes/individual cars with the first paycheck and come in somewhere in the personal arms spectrum.

I would tend to stick a zero on the end of the sub-1000 ones. The larger expedition trucks look right.

Yeah that bothered me, too. The issue is they are ENGINE SIZED for 40kph OFF-ROAD speed, so the performance is LOW by modern ROAD BIKE ... so STRIKER places most of the cost in the ENGINE.

When I compared the prices of the MOPED (where I started) ... Vespas needed about 3-4 times the price. On the other hand, "Scooters" from China and India could be had for about that price. I found that the different engine choices (TL 6) Improved Internal Combustion, (TL 7) Gas Turbine, (TL 8) MHD Turbine ... made only minimal difference. I went with FUEL CELLS (TL 8 in ROBOTS) because the world had a Hydrogen Infrastructure for the Starships, so it didn't NEED Hydrocarbons. The alternatives made minimal difference (mostly range due to weight) and the prices were comparable for the same performance.

That's where a spreadsheet helps.

For an example, a Cr 200 scooter is a bit over $1000 today. Here is a $900 scooter (TL 7.5) from Amazon ...

 

[atpollard]

I am curious why some say "1 Seat" when the image clearly has two or "2 Seat" when the image has four. Is this by design and if so, why?

Because AI only takes what I say as a "suggestion" and I eventually get tired of fighting with it. For example, the Jeep is supposed to be more like the original WW2 Jeep in size ... 2 seats and a rear cargo area where you can throw a body or two. After 10 attempts, it is time to accept "good enough" and move on.

I also wanted the trucks to be pointier in the front like a HEMTT ... but the AI REFUSED!!!!

 

[atpollard]

These are great!
How bout a 6 pax mini-van?

I thought about "Primary Passenger" vehicles. The issue I had was figuring out how much CARGO was needed.

Strictly STRIKER, a 6 passenger vehicle needs 6 cu.m of passenger space and 600 kg payload for 6 passengers (no extra luggage). That seemed light, but building it on a 3000 kg GVWR Pickup Chassis would give about 1500 kg of payload (which seemed heavy). That was why I focused on ultra-light people movers and TRUCKS.

Any suggestions? How many KG of cargo per passenger?

 

[Spinward Flow]

Any suggestions? How many KG of cargo per passenger?

CT Striker tends to assume that cargo "is occupied" at a density of 1kg/liter for movement performance reasons (that way you don't have to recalculate depending on whether you're loaded or not).

The Tesla Model Y has 854 liters of cargo space in the rear boot when the seats are upright, and 2,041 liters when the rear seats are folded down.

So ... 200 liters of cargo per vehicle occupant would seem like a reasonable starting point.

 

[atpollard]

Minor nit, if you're doing ground travel, you're going to have roads. They may certainly be not of the highest quality, especially after weather, but there will be roads vs overland travel.

??? Did I say otherwise?

The vehicles are CAPABLE of driving in SAND and MUD (off-road), but DESIGNED for Dirt Roads (50% of Top Speed; not 75% of Top Speed like a paved road).

 

[kilemall]

I thought about "Primary Passenger" vehicles. The issue I had was figuring out how much CARGO was needed.

Strictly STRIKER, a 6 passenger vehicle needs 6 cu.m of passenger space and 600 kg payload for 6 passengers (no extra luggage). That seemed light, but building it on a 3000 kg GVWR Pickup Chassis would give about 1500 kg of payload (which seemed heavy). That was why I focused on ultra-light people movers and TRUCKS.

Any suggestions? How many KG of cargo per passenger?

I’d figure on another 100kg, loaded encumbrance x4 and in line with the luggage of a middle passage traveller.

Specs need dtons for shipping.

 

[atpollard]

CT Striker tends to assume that cargo "is occupied" at a density of 1kg/liter for movement performance reasons (that way you don't have to recalculate depending on whether you're loaded or not).

That is a figure I use a lot. WATER (as good a reference as any) and the payload capacity of an F-150 pickup Bed (1500 L = 1500 kg ballpark).

I guess 200L (200 kg) per occupant is as good a number as any ... but that means each passenger has DOUBLE his weight in additional cargo allowance.

 

[casquilho]

Because AI only takes what I say as a "suggestion" and I eventually get tired of fighting with it. For example, the Jeep is supposed to be more like the original WW2 Jeep in size ... 2 seats and a rear cargo area where you can throw a body or two. After 10 attempts, it is time to accept "good enough" and move on.

I also wanted the trucks to be pointier in the front like a HEMTT ... but the AI REFUSED!!!!

Ah, got it. They do look good for sure. And I do agree with the post earlier, these would make a great PDF/booklet/zine.

 

[atpollard]

And I do agree with the post earlier, these would make a great PDF/booklet/zine.

I was waiting to add TL 9 ACVs and TL 10 Grav vehicles (all Civilian).

I have a few ACVs, but the prices don't look correct so I need to check for an error.

 

[Rupert]

You said you didn't want a discussion on the rules, etc., so I won't mention any of that.

However, I think your last truck has a type on the fuel, with ten times too much volume given for it. Either that or it floats along under a massive balloon of liquid hydrogen...

 

[atpollard]

You said you didn't want a discussion on the rules, etc., so I won't mention any of that.

However, I think your last truck has a type on the fuel, with ten times too much volume given for it. Either that or it floats along under a massive balloon of liquid hydrogen...

Good catch on the typo ... Fuel should be 13,800 L (there is an extra "1" in the text).

 

[atpollard]

I reworked some images for the "2-seat car" ...



and added a 4-seat car ...


and a 6-seat SUV/Minivan ...


So how are THESE images?

 

[Condottiere]

I'm thinking amphibious beach buggy.

 

[atpollard]

You said you didn't want a discussion on the rules, etc., so I won't mention any of that.

I don't mind "discussions", I just get tired of the same old arguments. I KNOW it is not STRIKER RAW or MT RAW or BOOK 8 RAW ...

The issue is that NONE of the rules actually work to recreate TL 7 real vehicles, so one has to choose where "reality" breaks and TRAVELLER begins in "their TU". I picked my poison and don't really want to argue that someone else would have chosen a different break point. These results are "fair". Compare the "3000 kg GVWR Class 2" to a 2024 Ford F-150 Crew Cab and see how close the stats come to reality ($5.40 = Cr 1)

 

[atpollard]

I'm thinking amphibious beach buggy.

Youbecha ...

 

[whartung]

Oh that thing is sweet!

Kinda of a Lego Corvette and Jeep kitbash

 

[casquilho]

Youbecha ...
View attachment 5509

Oh I like this one. Interesting image for sure.