If I recall correctly the calculations in TCS and Striker were decanonized or otherwise depreciated. Was there ever anything introduced to take their place?
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Concerning GNP/GDP
- Thread starter Spartan159
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kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Eh, big fun from my perspective in figuring out 'what if it is all true' and the effect of both in play, since one is item/trading effective market costs plus per capita income and the other is effectively official exchange rates.
There are story lines there about tax oppression and mercantilism and building/tearing down a future, so it's not just gaming geekery.
A major storyline IMTU is predicated on those charts.
What happens when a planet's TL is rated down, along with all the economic measures and clout?
Ker-CHUNK, 10% of planetary GWP drops overnight, taxes are short for the fleet, items at the former TL become expensive to maintain or scarce.
Possibly a fiscal run of resources pulling off the planet?
Inability to sell desirable exports and negative momentum drive the planet into further economic/TL reductions?
Huge populace unable to afford passage tickets to better opportunity worlds revolt and change governments for improvement or ensure general welfare or oppress to hold onto what they have?
Big adventure generation, I tells ya.
There are story lines there about tax oppression and mercantilism and building/tearing down a future, so it's not just gaming geekery.
A major storyline IMTU is predicated on those charts.
What happens when a planet's TL is rated down, along with all the economic measures and clout?
Ker-CHUNK, 10% of planetary GWP drops overnight, taxes are short for the fleet, items at the former TL become expensive to maintain or scarce.
Possibly a fiscal run of resources pulling off the planet?
Inability to sell desirable exports and negative momentum drive the planet into further economic/TL reductions?
Huge populace unable to afford passage tickets to better opportunity worlds revolt and change governments for improvement or ensure general welfare or oppress to hold onto what they have?
Big adventure generation, I tells ya.
Found it, thanks.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
If you want to get some idea of what GDP/GNP would be for worlds of up to roughly Tech Level 9, I would recommend taking a look at the CIA World Fact Book, both the current edition and some of the older ones. The Combined Arms Research Library Digital Library has ones in .PDF format going back to 1982.
Given the wide range of Technology Levels currently present on Earth, the book would also give you some ideas for lower Tech Levels as well.
Given the wide range of Technology Levels currently present on Earth, the book would also give you some ideas for lower Tech Levels as well.
Thanks, Timerover. I'll have to look at that.
I don't believe that's accurate. The Campaign Rules in the Mongoose version of Trillion Credit Squadron are quite similar to GDW's. There were also similar rules to Striker and TCS in both TNE and GT. See my comments on force composition on the T4 board.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
To just reiterate, I think the point is to say the Striker/TCS charts work within the game constructs of a campaign, not as a mechanism for general application to how finances and trade work in the OTU.
I don't know. The GWP rules in Far Trader are quite similar to rules in Striker. The Traveller Wiki includes GWP numbers in the sector data.
Somebody must think they're important to the OTU.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
There is a difference. An average stellar (TL~12) would get a base GWP/capita of kCr 16 in Striker and kCr 6 in Far Trader.
Striker envisions an Imperium that is somewhat wealthier than the current industrialised world, Far Trader describes an Imperium that is decidedly poorer, perhaps like the 70's. Only at TL15 does the Far Trader numbers approach current numbers.
Striker envisions an Imperium that is somewhat wealthier than the current industrialised world, Far Trader describes an Imperium that is decidedly poorer, perhaps like the 70's. Only at TL15 does the Far Trader numbers approach current numbers.
The Far Trader trade code mods are the same as in Striker I might add. Only thing that looked different was base income/Tech level
Note also that GT$ are NOT the same value as CT/MT/TNE/T4 Credits.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Thanks, I had certainly missed that. Far Trader only talks about Imperial Credits.
That would make Far Trader irrelevant for other editions.
Is there an official exchange rate?
A quick comparison of prices are all over the map, some prices cheaper and some more expensive. Medium starships seems to be about half the cost compared to LBB2.
official? no. Unofficial?
CT is 1976 or 1977 US dollars.
GURPS 1E was explicitly 1981 US dollars.
Key datapoints:
| Item | CT | GT | GTFT Basic |
| High Passage | 10,000 | 3500 | 3500 |
| Mid Passage | 8,000 | 1750 | 1750 |
| Low Passage | 1,000 | 175 | 175 |
| Freight | 1,000 | 650 | 600-650 |
| Mail (5T) | 25,000 | 10,000 | GTFT |
Note that the relationships between various prices is different between GURPS and CT, as well...
CT MP:HP::1:1.25 LP:MP::1:8
GT MP:HP::1:2 LP:MP::1:10
I believe the fanon rate is one GURPS dollar equals 2.5 Traveller credits.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
That would make CT Striker, Far Trader, and MgT TCS quite similar.
It would also make the numbers on the wiki badly scaled for anything but GT?
Which still doesn't solve the issues of the fundamental differences in the values of passages/travel and freight.
Price rates
CT F:LP:MP:HP :: 1:1:8:10
GT F:LP:MP:HP :: 1:0.27:2.7:5.4
Tonnage F:LP:MP:HP :: 1:0.5:4:4
Price Ratios per ton
CT F:LP:MP:HP :: 1:2:2:2.25
GT F:LP:MP:HP :: 1:0.54:0.68:1.36
In GT, you LOSE EARNING POTENTIAL (and thus money) by converting to passengers
I don't know. The GWP rules in Far Trader are quite similar to rules in Striker. The Traveller Wiki includes GWP numbers in the sector data.
Somebody must think they're important to the OTU.
Well, since the Striker rules were de-canonized, and the GWP rules from Far Trader are part of the process of generating the trade routes, the wiki uses the First In values for the GWPs presented.
If you have specific suggestions about how to alter the values presented to make them more useful to you, please let me know.
I'm wondering if it isn't past time we came up with a new set of rules, be it T5 or MgT based. A question I have is *why* were the Striker rules decanonized, esp since the GURPS rules just seem to echo them albeit updated to 1981 dollars.
Was there some basic flaw of some kind? Too simplistic, what?
Was there some basic flaw of some kind? Too simplistic, what?
There are 2 more huge differences between Striker and GT that are being missed in this discussion.
In Striker, per capita GWP grows linearly with tech level, in GT it grows at roughly 60% per tech level. GT is far more realistic based on historical Earth experience at least.
In addition the exchange rates in GT and Striker are totally different. The Striker exchange rates really don't make economic sense, while those in GT are at least plausible.
GT does require translations to use in CT. Not only are the currencies different, the tech levels aren't the same either. But GT is a much better starting point than Striker.
