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CotI Spica Sector Project (CSSP)

Gruffty's plan sounds good, and it is always handy to have generation alternatives. If I may make one suggestion: Keep it Simple. The last thing this game needs is an Astronomical Equivalent of Fire, Fusion, and Steel...

Please look at this, and tell me what it needs... I myself think the Legend should be smaller, and the Map bigger...

http://www.msnusers.com/SidurHaskiDesignConsortium/Documents/Forms%20and%20Charts/TAS%208%20Subsector%20Projection%20A%2Epdf

should we call our group
"The Astrogator's Lounge"...?
 
Originally posted by Baron Saarthuran von Gushiddan:
Please look at this, and tell me what it needs
First, to access any MSN Groups document file I'd need to be a member of that group (i.e. that's not a publicly accessible file). Second that link for some reason doesn't wrap around in Firebird and makes the whole thread that width (bad Firebird!). Is that file a blank Subsector map?

General reply:
I agree with scrap UWP etc. / keep locations. What about the names? It might be a pain to redo a lot or all of the Subsector and Planet names but it seems they are likely as suspect as the UWPs. If so fall back to whatever AotI or the Missouri Archive files (which might be the same as the AotI info) have for names then create new ones where needed or just scrap them all? If need be there are some decent random name generators out there both for Traveller languages and Real World ones. I wouldn't recommend using them as is but they can be useful for sparking ideas and creating a pool of words.

I also agree that while we need to nail down what info to keep / toss and how to generate new info a top down approach is good. For borders I assume the GTverse map is the one in the GT book. Of course I can't find my CT Supplements reprint at the moment but there's the early CT map in the CT books reprint. That map has a large (which continues into the next sector trailing) and a small "nodule" near the Hiver border that aren't present in the GT map.

Casey (a bit burnt out from finishing my merc unit last weekend so haven’t been in the mood to compare whole sector files/maps yet)

[EDIT]some slight editing for hopefully general clarity
 
Originally posted by Baron Saarthuran von Gushiddan:
That MSN site should be open to the public... it bloodywell better be, since im always sweeping it for Spamotrons...

What the heck is a Firebird? I always thought it was a Camaro-Like Vehicle...
Any MSN Groups files in the documents section (as in /SidurHaskiDesignConsortium/Documents/ in this case) are restricted to members only in my experience. For this file I get a passport login screen in one browser and a "You are authorized to view this page" in another. The cover graphic loads fine and is good for a rough. I'd prefer it have something representative of the sector on it but it's far too early for that.

As for Firebird I meant Firefox which is Mozilla's next-generation testbed browser and what I normally use for browsing these days. My goof. It used to be called firebird until they changed the animal logo. Firebird is another name for phoenix hence the usage. Firefox is also another name for the Red Panda, related to the Giant Panda. Nin Wah from Commander Kitty is an anthromorphic Red Panda. They'd make a fun Uplifted Solomani project IMO. But I'm veering way off topic now...

Casey
[EDIT]General clarity. Note to self: don't eat spicy food late :D
 
Some entry comparison between the three files I've seen using the two canonical worlds cited earlier in the thread. [EDIT]I didn't realize at first that the /sectors files are arranged differently than the /old_sectors files but seem to have the same info, at least in these two worlds. Post rewritten.[/EDIT]

The Prt' homeworld is Prt'aow C9667W9-A in the T20 writeup* and from earlier in this thread its location is hex 2340. I assume the W is a transcription error.

http://traveller.mu.org/archive/General/old_sectors/spica.txt
2340 C966302-A Lo Ni 711 Hv M7 V
http://traveller.mu.org/archive/General/sectors/spica.sec
2340 C966302-A Lo Ni 711 Hv M7 V
http://111george.com/core/astrogat/gni/iI.GNI
Prt'aow 2340 C9667L9-A Ag Tn Nh 711 Hv M7 V


Now for 0917 Juess. A once balkanized planet where robots are worshipped.

http://traveller.mu.org/archive/General/old_sectors/spica.txt
Heyss 0917 E100964-6 Hi In Na Va 900 So M3 V
http://traveller.mu.org/archive/General/sectors/spica.sec
Heyss 0917 E100964-6 Hi In Na Va 900 So M3 V
http://111george.com/core/astrogat/gni/iI.GNI
Juess 0917 E7409EC-9 Hi In Po De 900 So M3 V

I think the main thing though is what source(s) if any to use for locations and possibly names.

I suppose the Challenge article UWP for Prt'aow could trump anything else (assuming it has one) and assume it was written after the data that is in the /old_sectors and /sectors files was generated. Juess has no UWP in Book 8 (p. 15) but is noted as being a desert world.

Casey heading back to sleep

* a neat race with some potential. Like the hiver connection and the T20 stats seem good. I'd be tempted to swap out Escape Artist and replace it with Jump (based on the Acrobatics feat) but it works as is. I'd keep this minor race in.
 
Originally posted by Casey:
For borders I assume the GTverse map is the one in the GT book. Of course I can't find my CT Supplements reprint at the moment but there's the early CT map in the CT books reprint.
Note also if you go for 990s then there is a map on p46 of Gateway to Destiny, which might be considered the "appropriate" border.

I do prefer the GURPSiverse 1120 border (Alien Module 3 p18), with the Hive/Sollie areas meeting along the bottom half of what's a gap in 993. It has a Hive/Sollie border and a squeezed Hive/Sollie buffer zone, whereas the other versions I've seen have 0 or 1 of those 2. It's got more options, and it's a more intense situation.
 
Gruffty - I like your Plan 1.

Personally I'd rather scrap all the names as I think that between us we could come up with enough decent, pronounceable names rather than all the unpronounceable gibberish that seems to be used for system names in sector maps.


I think it's waaaay to early about worrying about book covers and page sizes (Baron, I can't access the msn stuff). Let's see if we can get this off the ground before we even think about anything like that
 
Originally posted by Baron Saarthuran von Gushiddan:
Gruffty's plan sounds good, and it is always handy to have generation alternatives. If I may make one suggestion: Keep it Simple. The last thing this game needs is an Astronomical Equivalent of Fire, Fusion, and Steel...

Please look at this, and tell me what it needs... I myself think the Legend should be smaller, and the Map bigger...

http://www.msnusers.com/SidurHaskiDesignConsortium/Documents/Forms%20and%20Charts/TAS%208%20Subsector%20Projection%20A%2Epdf

should we call our group
"The Astrogator's Lounge"...?
Well, I have a Passport account, and while I could get there, I got a "file does not exist error" when I attempted to open the pdf.
 
selected points:
Originally posted by Gruffty:

revised suggested plan no. 1:

2) Keep hex locations (as they *appear* to be consistent across all available versions)
5) implement 990s border from Gateway to Destiny (? copyright issue?), (I'm assuming that's the era we're *definitely* generating for, from the results of the poll?)
Agree with this one in general.

For names see below.

Looks like someone should do a comparison of hex locations and planet names. Hmmm maybe write a simple parser.

As for borders I finally found my CT Supplements reprint and it's fairly close to the one in Gateway. I don't have GT Alien book 3 but the map in the GT main book doesn't look too different from the CT map though it's hard for me to tell. Is there some stated reason in the GT Alien 3 book for a "change" in borders? Really since we're not sticking to previous sources and they don't seem to agree much anyway I don't think any particular map's "Era" should matter. Stick with the most potential. A little square on a big map can't show as much detail as a full-blown sector map anyway.

As for Era perhaps a section at the back summarizing changes for other Eras regardless of what timeframe chosen as the default.


With regards to the system names, I think we have several options:

1) simply scrap all system names and come up with new ones;
<snip>
3)"fall back to whatever AotI or the Missouri Archive files (which might be the same as the AotI info) have for names then create new ones where needed" (Casey's suggestion)
Well really the only two I would suggest be kept as a nod to the past would be 0917 Juess and 2340 Prt'aow. While I do kinda like the names of planets Keepout (I can see a big Marvin the Martian blinking neon sign in space now - KEEP OUT blink this means YOU*) and Hyborea (I wonder if there's a Planet Mu, Lemuria, R'yleh, or Zothique somewhere ;) ) planets File, [Ted] Nugent, Cache, and Item are somewhat meh. Evidently Spica means “Siberia for Accountants” in Prt’
file_23.gif
toast.gif
. Planet Montanna has some potential I guess. ^_^ Founded by a bunch of Vilani Tourists who'd been to Terra or just an administrative frell up?

I would add that *if* it's decided to keep a name from previous sources that the generated UWP at least take into consideration any features from prior UWP(s) that are really distinctive if that's viable. Assuming that this was done for naming the planet in the first place which isn’t a given at all with OTU UWP data. sigh

As for the fall back bit…well I was scheduled to play some WWII miniatures last night but that got delayed. So I was in grognard-in training mode. :mad: :cool:

Casey

* also the world motto! ;)
 
It may be WAAAY to early to think about bookcovers, Lords, but that tells me nothing of the effort. It took about ten minutes to lay out, and I was only curious to see how it would look...
Frankly, I don't understand this reaction.

And by the way, it is NEVER too early to plan ahead...
 
I found a working link to the cover (it's the PDF link that doesn't work outside MSN)... My honest opinion? It's functional, is all I can say. The font for Spica is horribly 1970s though.

I've found that planning ahead too far just ends up bogging people down. After all, we really don't need to worry about covers and such when we don't even have anything to put inside it at the moment. Let's concentrate on the meat first, before we put on the glaze!
 
Baron, first time caller, long time admirer of your work with the Design Consortium.
I LIKE it. Gives one the impression that one is working on a "real" project. Nice effort...and I like the font, too.
 
Baron, you're taking this far too personally! I have nothing against you doing a cover, it's a nice idea. All I'm saying is that we shouldn't get too far ahead of ourselves here.
 
The (crappy) photo, by the way IS the Star Spica, and the photo is only as a placeholder... I think the actual cover should have something involving both Hivers and Solomani... but that's later...
 
I agree with Malefant on Gruffty's Plan 1. although in my opinion if we are keeping the systems where they are, we should be keeping the names where possible. I think an effort to at least try to stay Canon with those things would be good, as for crazy UWP data etc... scrap it...

So for me, plan 1, but keeping system/world names where possible.

my 2 cred cents

-W. aka Udaphaeg Vhargh
 
Originally posted by Gruffty:
Okay, revised suggested plan no. 1:

<snip>

5) implement 990s border from Gateway to Destiny (? copyright issue?), (I'm assuming that's the era we're *definitely* generating for, from the results of the poll?)

<snip>

I would like to point out that the map on p46 of GTD is not circa 990, it is circa 1110. Look down to the Solomani Rim Sector on the map and you'll see the border is at its post-Rim War disposition, with Terra already inside Imperial space.

It was apparently used in GTD to provide a visual reference as to where the four sectors of GTD were located in relation to everything else.

However, the good thing is that Solomani and Hiver space does not intrude into Spica space in any way in year 1110.

I, personally, would like to continue on with these borders, as shown, exactly; i.e. no Solomani or Hiver space in Spica. Now, there can be all sorts of worlds that are sympathetic to either side, but they aren't actually worlds of either nation.

The map shows only 4 polities in Spica large enough to be seen. All four of them are on the edges of the map, extending, to one degree or another, off the map. The majority of Spica's space is either non-aligned (officially, anyway), or have extremely small polities extending to only two or three worlds. Personally, I think this is the ideal situation to work with.

The alternative would be to posit a situation where the Solomani Sphere extended an additional 40-50 parsecs to trailing and coreward in that one region . . . which all previous writing argues against, right along with an extension in Hiver space into Spica until it abutted the extension of the Solomani Sphere w/Big Extra Handle. Then, we must also posit that the entirety of these extensions collapsed completely to the obvious 1110 state. I don't really like these various suppositions much, and would rather stick to Spica as wild-open territory with lots of polities at 1-3 worlds and the few larger polities at the edges.
 
I, personally, would like to continue on with these borders, as shown, exactly; i.e. no Solomani or Hiver space in Spica. Now, there can be all sorts of worlds that are sympathetic to either side, but they aren't actually worlds of either nation.
I like this... I tend to imagine Hivers as masters of memetics, I can imagine that this sector could be an ideological battleground between worlds sympathetic to the Solomani and those sympathetic to the Hivers.
 
In relation to Chris O's point about the era setting for the sector, the poll on the era aspect of this project has been pretty static for the last few days, with the 990s era getting 50% of the votes.

However, as we are the group that will be shaping and developing the project, I wonder if we feel bound by the results of the poll at all?

In all of my "suggested plans" so far I have based the era on the poll results. The reason for my "suggested plans" has been to provide a sounding board (quite successfully, I think) for the views of others, so we can all agree a way forward then get cracking with the actual work.

The interstellar state borders are decided by which ever era we decide to set the sector into, if we go by canon. This, to my mind, makes the era and borders a combined issue to be resolved. I feel once we have all agreed on *that* aspect for the sector then we can begin to plough forward with the other aspects of the sector.
 
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