CotI Spica Sector Project (CSSP)

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Gruffty:
This is the MT map, which doesn't appear to change in most of the books:

www.leaberry.org.uk/spica_MT_image.jpg

That's exactly the same way it's presented in the CT Alien Module 6 circa 1111 btw (mentioned by me above, copyright 1986).

Do you have the copyright date for the other (presumably earlier) one you posted Gruffty? Or an Imperial reference date? I think the Library Data is supposed to be cirac 1105 or thereabouts. Anyone able to confirm this?

 

[Malenfant]

It makes more sense to me to have a bit of a buffer zone bewteen the Solomani and Hivers. Plus it means we can throw in some interesting history that would require the presence of the zone too.

Since it seems that the borders only go right up against eachother in MT maps, we could just say that at some later point (post 990s) the buffer zone was overrun. Maybe there's a small border war at some point in the next century that causes this.

 

[Malenfant]

Of course the Hivers could just as easily say "Join the Federation and we'll protect you from those nasty racist Solomani thugs!".

Again, this highlights the region as a memetic battlefield. The Solomani would probably be pretty damn good at this sort of persuasion too, so if you have two nations who are both equally good at the art of persuasion going head to head, you can get some interesting scenarios. I can picture this perpetual Cold War going back and forth in the sector...

 

[clementk]

Originally posted by Baron Saarthuran von Gushiddan:
What I would like to see Kept Concept-Wise...

1. The Planet where Hivers and Humans first met.
2. The "Map Room" Ancient Site...

Are these from Alien Modules, the Galactic files, or somewhere else? I like them, esp. the first and there should be at least one Ancient Site to explore. Aside from 0917 Juess and 2340 Prt'aow from CT sources and some of the ones I mentioned earlier I'd add in
Liam 2002 A899002-E Lo Ni Tp 102 Na
(source file)(flavor text)
as a tip of the pith helmet to CotI's own Rotter General Marquis Liam!

Also I suggest that since at some point this thread will become too long and sub-threads will be created folk use a [CSSP] at the start of the thread topic line.

Casey

 

[Malenfant]

I wonder if I can persuade Hunter to set up a separate board for this project...

 

[clementk]

Originally posted by Baron Saarthuran von Gushiddan:
Backgound Consideration 1: Regardless of Borders, I think some explination as to exactly why two huge expansionist governments* have left a sizeable area of the sector unaligned... and by postulating this, I am not suggesting anything Goofy, Like Organians, Cosmic Barriers and the like, but there must be a logical reason for the occurance.

It looks to me like they ran into each other the next sector down rimward (Langere), for some reason decided to create a buffer zone* in Spica or just haven't expanded any further so far, and have settled into a nice cozy propaganda cold war being occupied with other things. The Solomani have the area rimward to expand in along with *cough* internal matters

and depending on the era a war with the Imperium and who knows what the Hivers are up to.

Were the IC (Imperial Client State) and Hc (Hiver Client State) allegiance codes ala Gateway around back in the day? I like the idea of a buffer zone of officially neutral worlds between the Solomani Confederation and the Hive Federation, some small client states forming some spheres of influence coreward of the buffer zone and the Solomani Confederation and Hive Federation borders, and non-aligned worlds that at most form small pocket empires beyond that. Gives a good mix.

* this reminds me. Are we talking about an actual buffer zone with officially neutral worlds in between the two main powers, agreements drawn up, and so forth or is it just an area that neither power has expanded to yet with the possibility of some client states there? I lean towards the former.

Casey
[EDIT]Oops! I kept typing Solomani Federation instead of Confederation. Hivers must be working OT on a weekend today![/EDIT]

 

[clementk]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
I wonder if I can persuade Hunter to set up a separate board for this project...

That could be helpful. This project is something of an offshot of a Moot "landgrab" idea with something of a nod from Hunter there. Hmmm anyone contacted Hunter and Marc Miller about this? Might be a good time to get the blessing of the Ancients. ^_^ looks for Summon Great Old One spell and prepares to roll for the SAN loss

Casey

 

[Malenfant]

I was imagining it was some kind of agreed zone. What do we know about how well Solomani and Hivers get on anyway? I'm imagining that there could be some border disputes that require a "Neutral Zone" to be set up between them...

 

[clementk]

my responses after each point in italics

Originally posted by Gruffty:
Suggested plan no. 1, revision no. umpteenfilthylie:

0) Era is confirmed as 990s;
Agreed. 993 is the start date for Gateway so might as well stick with that here.

1) Subsector names remain as previously published;
These seem to be the same across the board where they exist though I don't know their original origin offhand. Example: http://111george.com/core/astrogat/gni/iI.GNI

2) System hex locations remain as previously published;
Assuming these are the same across the board agreed.

3) Agree and map borders for Solomani and Hiver polities;
For actual Solomani Confederation and Hive Federation worlds this seems to be shaping up. The sample 993 thumbnail graphic is a start though it may have too much of a "buffer zone" esp. rimward.

4) Generate new UWPs;
Agreed...though I still think 2340 Prt'aow should stay as cited if it fits the minor race and 0917 Juess at least take into account the previous UWP and flavor text from CT Book 8. And Planet Liam!

5) Generate new stellar data;
Agreed.

6) Keep system names that are significant;
Agreed. Though what is significant will need to be hashed out.

7) Re-name all other systems.
Agreed.

Casey

[EDIT]Cleaned up rogue italic UBB code and standardized responses.[/EDIT]

 

[Malenfant]

I know Liam may be a bit of fun, but it makes no sense whatsoever. Why is one person allowed to have a habitable planet (presumably with plentiful resources) all to himself? Why would anyone even visit it? How can he prevent someone from moving in, killing him, and staking some land claims? Where do all those robots come from? Why hasn't he died from some accident yet?

If you want a tribute, I don't have any problem making him the charismatic leader of a world with a large population, but one person on their own on a planet is just silly, IMO. I'm not saying this to come across as a sourpuss, I just wouldn't want people to be looking at these worlds in future and saying "what the hell were they thinking when they came up with that?!"

 

[clementk]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
I know Liam may be a bit of fun, but it makes no sense whatsoever.

Woops. That's what I get for being lazy and pasting the full line from the Zhodani Base entry

. The main thing is the name and that *that* Liam is also a student of history as the RL Liam is. Actual planetary data and such are wide open IMO. I only linked to the original sources to cite them (not my writeup so credit was due) and again was being lazy and not quoting the exact relevant portion of text. The fewer what the frell? moments the better IMO. [EDIT]Though the start of Jack Vance's Demon Princes books comes to mind. The bartender and his bar are the only permanent residents on planet. IIRC it wasn't that much of a "resource rich" planet. shrugs[/EDIT]

Charismatic Dictator Liam eh?

Bagpipes play nonstop to keep the populace in line...

Casey

 

[hunter]

Moved this topic to its own forum.

Hunter

 

[Malenfant]

Ace. Thanks Hunter!

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by Casey:
my responses after each point in italics

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gruffty:
Suggested plan no. 1, revision no. umpteenfilthylie:

0) Era is confirmed as 990s;
Agreed. 993 is the start date for Gateway so might as well stick with that here.

1) Subsector names remain as previously published;
These seem to be the same across the board where they exist though I don't know their original origin offhand. Example: http://111george.com/core/astrogat/gni/iI.GNI

2) System hex locations remain as previously published;
Assuming these are the same across the board agreed.

3) Agree and map borders for Solomani and Hiver polities;
For actual Solomani Confederation and Hive Federation worlds this seems to be shaping up. The sample 993 thumbnail graphic is a start though it may have too much of a "buffer zone" esp. rimward.

4) Generate new UWPs;
Agreed...though I still think 2340 Prt'aow should stay as cited if it fits the minor race and 0917 Juess at least take into account the previous UWP and flavor text from CT Book 8. And Planet Liam!

5) Generate new stellar data;
Agreed.

6) Keep system names that are significant;
Agreed. Though what is significant will need to be hashed out.

7) Re-name all other systems.
Agreed.

Casey
</font>[/QUOTE]Between (3) and (4), I'd like to add a step - let's figure out at least a broad overview of the history of the sector before we do the UWPs.

If we're going to try the top down approach, I think it would be better to get this stuff sorted out, so when we do the UWPs we can appropriately place the worlds that are the sector's powerhouses or important places and can define where all the polities are relative to eachother.

Chances are that each subsector is going to have only a handful of worlds that are really important in terms of the history and politics of each sector, so we can deliberately create those and randomly generate (with checks) all the others later.

If people are OK with this, might I suggest a separate "Sector History" thread for this part of the creative process?

EDIT: Ah, heck with it. We're gonna need to think about this at some point anyway, so I started the Sector History thread myself

. Brainstorm away, folks!

 

[hunter]

No problem. I'm interested in seeing how this turns out.

I can set up an upload area if needed.

Hunter

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

"Liam" in my view is slightly corny, and makes little sense... it might be cool (but probably lame) if he was some form of Espionage Agent from the Imperium or something.. maybe just to take a sort of "sampling" of those who would make the trip to see him, what sort they are, etc...

Or:

"Liam" is a Hiver Construct built for the same mission as above.

Other Notions:

Maybe we could PLace subsector Capital first.

"The Solhiverian Neutral Zone" is interesting, but I think the psychology of Hivers and Sols might make that difficult... The hivers as presented could non-militarily make the populations of many worlds "dependent" upon them just by using trade... this would hold a lot of sway politically...

Also, though I cant speak for them in anything beyond general terms, but How would the Sols, a majority of whom seem into the "Solomani Hypothesis" possibly be thrilled about having Non-Human Masters or Benfactors, no matter how Benign...

 

[Malenfant]

Maybe we could PLace subsector Capital first.

This certainly wouldn't be at Spica itself. It's actually a multiple star consisting of at least two B V stars, maybe some more (according to this[/url). A VERY uninhabitable system, no chance of any planets there (it's far too young for them to have formed). The system is also strong source of X-Rays, which may render nearby systems uninhabitable.

"The Solhiverian Neutral Zone" is interesting, but I think the psychology of Hivers and Sols might make that difficult... The hivers as presented could non-militarily make the populations of many worlds "dependent" upon them just by using trade... this would hold a lot of sway politically...

The Solomani could do that too though couldn't they? The buffer zone could be a place that is demilitarised, but still allows civvie ships from both nations to trade in. The Sollies could tout "made by Solomani" to sway the humans on the worlds there, while the Hivers could tout "our stuff is actually better" to persuade them otherwise. Patriotism vs practicality

Also, though I cant speak for them in anything beyond general terms, but How would the Sols, a majority of whom seem into the "Solomani Hypothesis" possibly be thrilled about having Non-Human Masters or Benfactors, no matter how Benign...

Maybe you should ask the K'Kree who the Hivers turned into meateaters... if the Hivers can do that, they can do anything .

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

What would the Hivers want from the Sols, (beyond Cultural Products/Media?) that they couldn't do for themselves, and better?

The other thing to consider is, the people in the non-Hiver Worlds may not even know where thier products truly come from... such is the Way of Glea...

 

[RainOfSteel]

Polling:

Since there will likely be lots of purpose-oriented voting involved with this project, should polling be enabled in this forum (and it would be used only for things related to this project, of course)?

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by Baron Saarthuran von Gushiddan:
What would the Hivers want from the Sols, (beyond Cultural Products/Media?) that they couldn't do for themselves, and better?

Are Hivers better at EVERY aspect of technology? There's surely some things that they're not so great at.

And never underestimate the power of cultural products. or general consumer goods. Heck, they might like something as mundane as solomani textiles or foods

.

I mean, if the Hivers are better at everything then why haven't their products spread across all of Charted Space? Maybe they don't sell their really juicy stuff at the borders, but they do sell lower TL products that they make.

The other thing to consider is, the people in the non-Hiver Worlds may not even know where thier products truly come from... such is the Way of Glea... [/qb]

I don't think the Hivers need to be so secretive and er, subterfuge-ish in everything they do.