CTI - Classic Traveller Improved

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
Interesting ideas, though. I'm not sure I like the idea of keeping low rolls when you're trying to roll high, but I shall cogitate more before commenting further. Edit: I do see the rationale, though. end edit

You'll have to go with what's best for your gaming group and best fits your tastes, of course. I'm only posting to here to let people know the system is available (and I've had a lot of interest in the system after my postings on the TML).

Let me give you a couple of thoughts about the system to chew over, though.

We're so used to, in CT and other Traveller games, of skill helping you (by increasing your task roll) 100% of the time, all the time, on every roll.

CTI takes a bit of a different approach.

It's like the GM saying, "Roll 1D, and if that result is equal to or less than your skill level, your skill will help you....Oh, you've got only a Level-0? Well, OK, then only a '6' will help you."

Level-0 skills will help you only 1/6 of the time.

Level-1 skills will help you 1/3 of the time.

Level-2 skills will help you half of the time.

Level-3 skills will help you 2/3 of the time.

Level-4 skills will help you 5/6 of the time.

Level-5+ skills will help you all of the time.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
Interesting ideas, though. I'm not sure I like the idea of keeping low rolls when you're trying to roll high, but I shall cogitate more before commenting further. Edit: I do see the rationale, though. end edit

You'll have to go with what's best for your gaming group and best fits your tastes, of course. I'm only posting to here to let people know the system is available (and I've had a lot of interest in the system after my postings on the TML).

Let me give you a couple of thoughts about the system to chew over, though.

We're so used to, in CT and other Traveller games, of skill helping you (by increasing your task roll) 100% of the time, all the time, on every roll.

CTI takes a bit of a different approach.

It's like the GM saying, "Roll 1D, and if that result is equal to or less than your skill level, your skill will help you....Oh, you've got only a Level-0? Well, OK, then only a '6' will help you."

Level-0 skills will help you only 1/6 of the time.

Level-1 skills will help you 1/3 of the time.

Level-2 skills will help you half of the time.

Level-3 skills will help you 2/3 of the time.

Level-4 skills will help you 5/6 of the time.

Level-5+ skills will help you all of the time.

 

[Ptah]

One good thing, didn't know you could reach the TML through CotI. Thanks Bill, this will make for some nostalgic reading if they go back to the mid 90s.

WJP,
I always like to see task systems.
On armor absorbing damage, maybe more "old school" than you think. IIRC Tunnels & Trolls used armor absorbs damage. Personally have been using armor absorbs damage for decades and like how it works.

 

[Ptah]

One good thing, didn't know you could reach the TML through CotI. Thanks Bill, this will make for some nostalgic reading if they go back to the mid 90s.

WJP,
I always like to see task systems.
On armor absorbing damage, maybe more "old school" than you think. IIRC Tunnels & Trolls used armor absorbs damage. Personally have been using armor absorbs damage for decades and like how it works.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
I'm not sure I like the idea of keeping low rolls when you're trying to roll high, but I shall cogitate more before commenting further. Edit: I do see the rationale, though. end edit

BTW, this is a higher-is-better system, and higher skill will help you roll higher tasks.

There are some 50-80 examples in the CTI posts of the TML if you want to look at them. But, I'll give you two quickie examples right here to show you how higher skill and higher stat promotes higher task throw totals using CTI.


Example 1:
Kfouzorr needs to figure out why his shuttle's controls aren't responding the way they should be. Ship's Boat-0. INT-8

--His Ship's Boat skill will only help him if he rolls a "6".

--If he doesn't roll a "6" on his Skill Die, he'll get 2D to roll as his Task Dice (it would be automatic to roll a second die since any result on 1D will be below his INT-8). And, either of those two Task Dice could result
in a "6", adding more dice to the throw.

--If he does roll a "6" on his Skill Die, he's still, in essence, rolling 2D (he'll get the whole die from skill, and he still gets to roll the Task Die), except one of those die is a "6", averaging a higher total for him when the Skill Die is successful (his minimum total at this point is 7, from a "6" on the Skill Die and a "1" on the Task Die). He'll get to roll a
third die if his Task Die results in "1", "2", or "6", because of his attribute level, and, of course, he can keep rolling 6's on the Task Die.

His Level-0 skill doesn't help him that often (only every 1 out of 6 tasks), but when it does help him, it really, really helps him (if you've ever played D&D, this is not unlike a 1/2HD goblin needing a 20 to hit a 20th level fighter--but when the goblin hits, he'll do double damage).

I'm going to roll this task to get an eyeball example and show the the trend between two sets of task throws--one using a higher level skill. The Vargr's stat will remain the same.

6, 3 = 9 (Succeeded on Routine Task)

5, 3 5 = 8 (Succeeded on Routine Task)

3, 5 5 = 10 (Succeeded on Difficult Task)

1, 3 4 = 8 (Succeeded on Routine Task

4, 4 3 = 7 (Succeeded on Easy Task)

1, 1 5 = 6 (Succeeded on Easy Task)

3, 1 1 = 2 (Failed a Very Easy Task)

6, 3 = 9 (Succeeded on Routine Task)

5, 5 3 = 8 (Succeeded on Routine Task)

5, 5 1 = 6 (Succeeded on Easy Task)


Kfouzorr averaged 7.3 on these ten task rolls, and with a Routine Task being 8+, that's about what I'd expect from a character using a Level-0 skill and a stat that is one point above average. Note that the two times his skill
helped him, his task roll resulted in his second highest total.

OK, let's look at Kfouzorr's highest skill now, using the same attribute.

Example 2:
Kfouzorr has landed on Aramis, and he's in search of a black market part to
use in fixing his shuttle's control panel. Streetwise-3. INT-8

6, 1 4 = 11 (Succeeded on a Difficult Task)

3, 4 2 = 9 (Succeeded on a Routine Task)

4, 3 5 = 8 (Succeeded on a Routine Task)

4, 5 6, 2 = 13 (Succeeded on a Formidable Task)

6, 6 4 = 16 (Succeeded on an Impossible Task)

1, 4 5 = 10 (Succeeded on a Difficult Task)

1, 3 1 = 4 (Succeeded on a Very Easy Task)

1, 5 4 = 10 (Succeeded on a Difficult Task)

5, 2 4 = 6 (Succeeded on an Easy Task)

4, 6 1, 4 = 11 (Succeeded on a Difficult Task)


Kfourzoor averaged 9.8 on these then skill throws, which is about what I'd
expect from a character using a Level-3 skill and a stat just one point
above average. He's almost throwing success on Difficult tasks (10+) every
time.


See, the trend, with higher skill (and same stat) is towards higher skill throw totals and achieving success on higher difficulty levels.

In the first group (Skill-0; Stat-8), the Vargr rolled 4 Easy tasks, 5 Routine tasks, and 1 Difficult task.

That's a pretty decent for a character with basic skill proficiency and just-barely-above-average natural abilty. You'd think the guy could do Easy and Routine tasks pretty regularly.

In the second grouping (Skill-3; Stat-8), the Vargr not only averaged a higher total, but he did much better in succeeding on higher difficulty levels. He rolled success on 1 Very Easy task; 1 Easy task; 2 Routine tasks; 4 Difficult tasks; 1 Formidable task; and even 1 Impossible task.

Now, we're looking at the character's better side. He's got a professional level skill (Skill-3) and a better than average stat. Which is promoting him to roll a higher average task roll and shift his successes from the "Easys" and "Routines" to the "Difficults" and higher.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
I'm not sure I like the idea of keeping low rolls when you're trying to roll high, but I shall cogitate more before commenting further. Edit: I do see the rationale, though. end edit

BTW, this is a higher-is-better system, and higher skill will help you roll higher tasks.

There are some 50-80 examples in the CTI posts of the TML if you want to look at them. But, I'll give you two quickie examples right here to show you how higher skill and higher stat promotes higher task throw totals using CTI.


Example 1:
Kfouzorr needs to figure out why his shuttle's controls aren't responding the way they should be. Ship's Boat-0. INT-8

--His Ship's Boat skill will only help him if he rolls a "6".

--If he doesn't roll a "6" on his Skill Die, he'll get 2D to roll as his Task Dice (it would be automatic to roll a second die since any result on 1D will be below his INT-8). And, either of those two Task Dice could result
in a "6", adding more dice to the throw.

--If he does roll a "6" on his Skill Die, he's still, in essence, rolling 2D (he'll get the whole die from skill, and he still gets to roll the Task Die), except one of those die is a "6", averaging a higher total for him when the Skill Die is successful (his minimum total at this point is 7, from a "6" on the Skill Die and a "1" on the Task Die). He'll get to roll a
third die if his Task Die results in "1", "2", or "6", because of his attribute level, and, of course, he can keep rolling 6's on the Task Die.

His Level-0 skill doesn't help him that often (only every 1 out of 6 tasks), but when it does help him, it really, really helps him (if you've ever played D&D, this is not unlike a 1/2HD goblin needing a 20 to hit a 20th level fighter--but when the goblin hits, he'll do double damage).

I'm going to roll this task to get an eyeball example and show the the trend between two sets of task throws--one using a higher level skill. The Vargr's stat will remain the same.

6, 3 = 9 (Succeeded on Routine Task)

5, 3 5 = 8 (Succeeded on Routine Task)

3, 5 5 = 10 (Succeeded on Difficult Task)

1, 3 4 = 8 (Succeeded on Routine Task

4, 4 3 = 7 (Succeeded on Easy Task)

1, 1 5 = 6 (Succeeded on Easy Task)

3, 1 1 = 2 (Failed a Very Easy Task)

6, 3 = 9 (Succeeded on Routine Task)

5, 5 3 = 8 (Succeeded on Routine Task)

5, 5 1 = 6 (Succeeded on Easy Task)


Kfouzorr averaged 7.3 on these ten task rolls, and with a Routine Task being 8+, that's about what I'd expect from a character using a Level-0 skill and a stat that is one point above average. Note that the two times his skill
helped him, his task roll resulted in his second highest total.

OK, let's look at Kfouzorr's highest skill now, using the same attribute.

Example 2:
Kfouzorr has landed on Aramis, and he's in search of a black market part to
use in fixing his shuttle's control panel. Streetwise-3. INT-8

6, 1 4 = 11 (Succeeded on a Difficult Task)

3, 4 2 = 9 (Succeeded on a Routine Task)

4, 3 5 = 8 (Succeeded on a Routine Task)

4, 5 6, 2 = 13 (Succeeded on a Formidable Task)

6, 6 4 = 16 (Succeeded on an Impossible Task)

1, 4 5 = 10 (Succeeded on a Difficult Task)

1, 3 1 = 4 (Succeeded on a Very Easy Task)

1, 5 4 = 10 (Succeeded on a Difficult Task)

5, 2 4 = 6 (Succeeded on an Easy Task)

4, 6 1, 4 = 11 (Succeeded on a Difficult Task)


Kfourzoor averaged 9.8 on these then skill throws, which is about what I'd
expect from a character using a Level-3 skill and a stat just one point
above average. He's almost throwing success on Difficult tasks (10+) every
time.


See, the trend, with higher skill (and same stat) is towards higher skill throw totals and achieving success on higher difficulty levels.

In the first group (Skill-0; Stat-8), the Vargr rolled 4 Easy tasks, 5 Routine tasks, and 1 Difficult task.

That's a pretty decent for a character with basic skill proficiency and just-barely-above-average natural abilty. You'd think the guy could do Easy and Routine tasks pretty regularly.

In the second grouping (Skill-3; Stat-8), the Vargr not only averaged a higher total, but he did much better in succeeding on higher difficulty levels. He rolled success on 1 Very Easy task; 1 Easy task; 2 Routine tasks; 4 Difficult tasks; 1 Formidable task; and even 1 Impossible task.

Now, we're looking at the character's better side. He's got a professional level skill (Skill-3) and a better than average stat. Which is promoting him to roll a higher average task roll and shift his successes from the "Easys" and "Routines" to the "Difficults" and higher.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
Interesting ideas, though.

One last thought in response to your post (for now, anyway ;-> ).

One of the areas in which Classic Trav is weak is its typicaly inability to allow a character's stats to influence a roll.

Let's say, in a Classic Trav game, a character is walking by on open-air market on a real low-tech world where military weapons are being sold (think somewhere in the Middle East or Africa).

The GM knows the quality varies. The player asks about this, and the GM decides to give the character a roll to evaluate a weapon as he picks it up off the market table, looking at it.

In typical CT, how would you, as a GM handle this? You could come up with 2D roll, I guess, using a character's weapon skill as a modifier...

GM: "Roll 7+ on 2D, but you can use your Combat Rifleman skill to modify the roll."

The problem with that is that, in typical CT fashion, it doesn't take into account the character's education (or maybe intelligence, but I'd go with education).

Wouldn't a EDU-10, Combat Rifleman-1 character have a better chance at determining the quality of these market rifles than an EDU-4, Combat Rifleman-1 character?

Using CTI on this task roll, the character's EDU will play a BIG part in the success of the task.

I guess another thing you could do as a GM, CT-wise, is to allow your player to roll EDU or less on 2D, using Combat Rifleman skill as a -DM to the roll.

This would bring in the value of the character's EDU to the roll, but you'd have little flexibility in the roll. Character's with EDU-11 or higher (because of the Combat Rifleman-1 skill) would be able to look at each an every weapon and know, 100% of the time, their quality just by glancing at them.

If you used a CTI task on this task roll, there would be room for failure. Characters with higher EDU or higher Combat Rifleman skills would be able to better judge the quality of the weapons they are looking at (as reflected in their higher task rolls). And, as a GM, you ar afforded more flexiblity in judging the encounter by (for example) saying something like this--

GM: "The weapons before you are of various makes and manufacturers. Most are used. A very few look new. Since you want to try to judge quality and pick the best weapon (maybe even be able to tell what the Req. and Adv. DEX modifiers are for a specific weapon), the table with the handguns represents an Easy task. The table with the rifles is a Routine task. And, the table with the more sophisticated laser weapons is a Difficult task. You'll use your EDU and any appropriate skill as a task to judge quality."

And there you have it. Using CTI, a character knows, upon approaching the handguns table, that he can judge the quality of any of the autopistols by rolling an Easy AutoPistol task, governed by his EDU. Since he doesn't have a rifle skill, he'll know that he'll be using a Level-0 skill, governed by EDU, if he strolls over to the rifle table--and that task is a bit harder anyway, requiring a Routine throw.

See, CTI provides the CT GM with some flexibility and makes use of a character's natural ability (the character's stats) more-so than you typically find in a standard CT game.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
Interesting ideas, though.

One last thought in response to your post (for now, anyway ;-> ).

One of the areas in which Classic Trav is weak is its typicaly inability to allow a character's stats to influence a roll.

Let's say, in a Classic Trav game, a character is walking by on open-air market on a real low-tech world where military weapons are being sold (think somewhere in the Middle East or Africa).

The GM knows the quality varies. The player asks about this, and the GM decides to give the character a roll to evaluate a weapon as he picks it up off the market table, looking at it.

In typical CT, how would you, as a GM handle this? You could come up with 2D roll, I guess, using a character's weapon skill as a modifier...

GM: "Roll 7+ on 2D, but you can use your Combat Rifleman skill to modify the roll."

The problem with that is that, in typical CT fashion, it doesn't take into account the character's education (or maybe intelligence, but I'd go with education).

Wouldn't a EDU-10, Combat Rifleman-1 character have a better chance at determining the quality of these market rifles than an EDU-4, Combat Rifleman-1 character?

Using CTI on this task roll, the character's EDU will play a BIG part in the success of the task.

I guess another thing you could do as a GM, CT-wise, is to allow your player to roll EDU or less on 2D, using Combat Rifleman skill as a -DM to the roll.

This would bring in the value of the character's EDU to the roll, but you'd have little flexibility in the roll. Character's with EDU-11 or higher (because of the Combat Rifleman-1 skill) would be able to look at each an every weapon and know, 100% of the time, their quality just by glancing at them.

If you used a CTI task on this task roll, there would be room for failure. Characters with higher EDU or higher Combat Rifleman skills would be able to better judge the quality of the weapons they are looking at (as reflected in their higher task rolls). And, as a GM, you ar afforded more flexiblity in judging the encounter by (for example) saying something like this--

GM: "The weapons before you are of various makes and manufacturers. Most are used. A very few look new. Since you want to try to judge quality and pick the best weapon (maybe even be able to tell what the Req. and Adv. DEX modifiers are for a specific weapon), the table with the handguns represents an Easy task. The table with the rifles is a Routine task. And, the table with the more sophisticated laser weapons is a Difficult task. You'll use your EDU and any appropriate skill as a task to judge quality."

And there you have it. Using CTI, a character knows, upon approaching the handguns table, that he can judge the quality of any of the autopistols by rolling an Easy AutoPistol task, governed by his EDU. Since he doesn't have a rifle skill, he'll know that he'll be using a Level-0 skill, governed by EDU, if he strolls over to the rifle table--and that task is a bit harder anyway, requiring a Routine throw.

See, CTI provides the CT GM with some flexibility and makes use of a character's natural ability (the character's stats) more-so than you typically find in a standard CT game.

 

[Supplement Four]

The DGP/MT task system is bound to come up in this thread. It's a beautiful system. I used it for years. It fits well with CT, when you need a task system, and is easy to implement. But, I always had one problem with it--and this problem is what lead me to develop CTI.

That problem with the MT task system is this: There's not enough definition between characters with different stats (natural ability).

Under MT (or DGP, whatever you want to call it), a DEX-5 AutoPistol-1 character shoots just as well as a DEX-9 AutoPistol-1 character.

Both characters, under MT, would roll 2D +2 as an attack roll.

DEX-5 is definitely "below average" natural ability. DEX-9 is a pretty dextrous character. There should be some separation between the two.

Thus, CTI creates that separation. If you look at the first post in this thread, you will see that the CTI task throw is influenced by three things: (1) the influence of skill in the form of the Skill Die; (2) the influence of pure luck and circumstance in the form of being lucky on the task die and re-rolling 6's; and (3) the influence of a character's natural ability in the form of the level of the stat being used to govern the task.

A higher stat means that you'll re-roll the task die more often, resulting in higher task rolls, on average.

So, under CTI, you've got a pretty good divide between EDU-5 and EDU-9.

 

[Supplement Four]

The DGP/MT task system is bound to come up in this thread. It's a beautiful system. I used it for years. It fits well with CT, when you need a task system, and is easy to implement. But, I always had one problem with it--and this problem is what lead me to develop CTI.

That problem with the MT task system is this: There's not enough definition between characters with different stats (natural ability).

Under MT (or DGP, whatever you want to call it), a DEX-5 AutoPistol-1 character shoots just as well as a DEX-9 AutoPistol-1 character.

Both characters, under MT, would roll 2D +2 as an attack roll.

DEX-5 is definitely "below average" natural ability. DEX-9 is a pretty dextrous character. There should be some separation between the two.

Thus, CTI creates that separation. If you look at the first post in this thread, you will see that the CTI task throw is influenced by three things: (1) the influence of skill in the form of the Skill Die; (2) the influence of pure luck and circumstance in the form of being lucky on the task die and re-rolling 6's; and (3) the influence of a character's natural ability in the form of the level of the stat being used to govern the task.

A higher stat means that you'll re-roll the task die more often, resulting in higher task rolls, on average.

So, under CTI, you've got a pretty good divide between EDU-5 and EDU-9.

 

[daltoncalford]

Hey WJP,
Did you ever try out or read the 'Traveller Home Edition' mechanics?

best regards

Dalton

 

[daltoncalford]

Hey WJP,
Did you ever try out or read the 'Traveller Home Edition' mechanics?

best regards

Dalton

 

[Fritz_Brown]

As far as the stat modifiers, I am looking at using a "bonus" system consisting of trunc((Stat+1)/2)-4. This gives a range of -3 to +3 for the range 1 - F, with 0s at 7 and 8.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

As far as the stat modifiers, I am looking at using a "bonus" system consisting of trunc((Stat+1)/2)-4. This gives a range of -3 to +3 for the range 1 - F, with 0s at 7 and 8.

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by WJP:
WJP is Communique.

WJP/Communique,

Good. That means someone isn't ripping off your work.

As for everyone else, check out the TML thread. You'll see the objections you've raised here were already raised there and WJP successfully dealt with them.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by WJP:
WJP is Communique.

WJP/Communique,

Good. That means someone isn't ripping off your work.

As for everyone else, check out the TML thread. You'll see the objections you've raised here were already raised there and WJP successfully dealt with them.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Dalton:
Hey WJP,
Did you ever try out or read the 'Traveller Home Edition' mechanics?

best regards

Dalton

Nope, never heard of it, Dalton. I'm always interested in seeing how other people handle Traveller mechanics, though. Where can I get a copy?

Thanks for posting. I'll learn something new.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Dalton:
Hey WJP,
Did you ever try out or read the 'Traveller Home Edition' mechanics?

best regards

Dalton

Nope, never heard of it, Dalton. I'm always interested in seeing how other people handle Traveller mechanics, though. Where can I get a copy?

Thanks for posting. I'll learn something new.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
As far as the stat modifiers, I am looking at using a "bonus" system consisting of trunc((Stat+1)/2)-4. This gives a range of -3 to +3 for the range 1 - F, with 0s at 7 and 8.

That reminds me a little bit of FUDGE. Personally, I looked at systems like that when I was designing CTI, but it wasn't my cup of tea.

I wanted to keep CTI plug-n-play with CT. I wanted 8+, for example, to remain the number used for combat (that's why 8+ is a Routine task).

I didn't want to monkey around with CT too much. CTI is really just a method of rolling dice and using your stats/skills to interpret your rolls.

I designed CTI specifically to avoid multiplying and dividing things to get numbers needed for a task roll--I wanted to keep CT DMs just as they are originally and officially written.

And, I wanted CTI to be able to be used in "modules" if you will. A wanted a GM to use as much of it or as little of it as possible, and if a GM decided to use it, I didn't want him to have to re-write half the game.

So, as it stands, a GM using CTI could just use the system as a task system only for non-combat tasks.

Or, a GM could expand CTI into combat, but just use the CTI task to replace the 2D + mods roll in CT. That GM would use a Routine (8+) CTI task to hit, still using all the armor and other modifiers normally associated with CT.

Or, even further, a GM could switch around the armor modifier as I outlined earlier in this topic, using armor to reduce damage instead of using it to make targets harder to hit.

Or, as another type of CTI "module", a GM could use CTI with the optional Striker armor values, making armor even more protective than just switching the armor DMs around to modify damage.

Bottom line is, I wanted CTI to feel like it was written to be used with CT--like it was a part of the original rules.

And, at least for me, my group, and several others who have e-mailed me, CTI does the job I set out to make it do.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
As far as the stat modifiers, I am looking at using a "bonus" system consisting of trunc((Stat+1)/2)-4. This gives a range of -3 to +3 for the range 1 - F, with 0s at 7 and 8.

That reminds me a little bit of FUDGE. Personally, I looked at systems like that when I was designing CTI, but it wasn't my cup of tea.

I wanted to keep CTI plug-n-play with CT. I wanted 8+, for example, to remain the number used for combat (that's why 8+ is a Routine task).

I didn't want to monkey around with CT too much. CTI is really just a method of rolling dice and using your stats/skills to interpret your rolls.

I designed CTI specifically to avoid multiplying and dividing things to get numbers needed for a task roll--I wanted to keep CT DMs just as they are originally and officially written.

And, I wanted CTI to be able to be used in "modules" if you will. A wanted a GM to use as much of it or as little of it as possible, and if a GM decided to use it, I didn't want him to have to re-write half the game.

So, as it stands, a GM using CTI could just use the system as a task system only for non-combat tasks.

Or, a GM could expand CTI into combat, but just use the CTI task to replace the 2D + mods roll in CT. That GM would use a Routine (8+) CTI task to hit, still using all the armor and other modifiers normally associated with CT.

Or, even further, a GM could switch around the armor modifier as I outlined earlier in this topic, using armor to reduce damage instead of using it to make targets harder to hit.

Or, as another type of CTI "module", a GM could use CTI with the optional Striker armor values, making armor even more protective than just switching the armor DMs around to modify damage.

Bottom line is, I wanted CTI to feel like it was written to be used with CT--like it was a part of the original rules.

And, at least for me, my group, and several others who have e-mailed me, CTI does the job I set out to make it do.