CTI - Classic Traveller Improved

[Supplement Four]

This is similar to Daltons system (I think) in that you have to roll under something before you roll over something else - with the same pair of dice.

Kinda-sorta, but not really.

You're used to getting your full skill level, 100%, all the time, when you roll with CT.

If you've got Skill-2, then, in CT, you'll roll 2D +2.


CTI looks at it differently.

CTI asks the question, "Did your skill help you on this task? ...and if it did, how much benefit did you get?"

CTI doesn't default to +2 (in the above example) every time.

What CTI says is...

A character with Skill-2 will benefit from his expertise in that area of knowlege 50% of the time. When he does benefit from it, it may only be a +1...or it may be the full +2....or, it may even be a whopper in the form of a +6.

Higher level skill means your expertise will help you more often.

So, it's not really rolling low--you don't want a low total.

It's like the GM saying, "Hey, let's see if your skill helped you when you attempted that task. Roll 1D, and if you roll a 1-2 or a 6, you can use that as a DM on your roll."

Level-0 rarely provides benefit. When it does, it's a lot of benefit. +6

Level-1 provides the benefit gained from Level-0 (the +6), and in addition, sometimes allows a +1...and either of these happen more frequently than it does for Level-0 expertise.

Level-2 provides the benefits of Level-0 and Level-1. But, in addition, it provides more frequency of benefit AND it proivde the opportunity to get a +2.

...etc...

 

[Supplement Four]

This is similar to Daltons system (I think) in that you have to roll under something before you roll over something else - with the same pair of dice.

Kinda-sorta, but not really.

You're used to getting your full skill level, 100%, all the time, when you roll with CT.

If you've got Skill-2, then, in CT, you'll roll 2D +2.


CTI looks at it differently.

CTI asks the question, "Did your skill help you on this task? ...and if it did, how much benefit did you get?"

CTI doesn't default to +2 (in the above example) every time.

What CTI says is...

A character with Skill-2 will benefit from his expertise in that area of knowlege 50% of the time. When he does benefit from it, it may only be a +1...or it may be the full +2....or, it may even be a whopper in the form of a +6.

Higher level skill means your expertise will help you more often.

So, it's not really rolling low--you don't want a low total.

It's like the GM saying, "Hey, let's see if your skill helped you when you attempted that task. Roll 1D, and if you roll a 1-2 or a 6, you can use that as a DM on your roll."

Level-0 rarely provides benefit. When it does, it's a lot of benefit. +6

Level-1 provides the benefit gained from Level-0 (the +6), and in addition, sometimes allows a +1...and either of these happen more frequently than it does for Level-0 expertise.

Level-2 provides the benefits of Level-0 and Level-1. But, in addition, it provides more frequency of benefit AND it proivde the opportunity to get a +2.

...etc...

 

[Ptah]

Originally posted by WJP:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />I agree with the above but the impact of Att-9 (not that low, actually above average) on Skill-6 seems a little high, is it possible to tweak this or would using Att=Att+1 work, or Att+2 for Skill-6 and Att+1 for Skill-5?

Stat-9, Skill-6, would equate to Stat-10, Skill-5.

(from the the first of the three rules that influence the task roll--see the very first post of this thread for explanation)

I'm not sure I follow when you say "it seems a little high". Can you give me an example of what you think is high about it? If I had that, I could more fully answer your question. </font>[/QUOTE]Yep, looking at Fritz88s numbers it seems the Skill-6 Att-9 guy went from a 72% chance of formidble to a 25% chance. I might agree with lowering the 72% but 25% seems a little low for expectations coming from CT.

 

[Ptah]

Originally posted by WJP:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />I agree with the above but the impact of Att-9 (not that low, actually above average) on Skill-6 seems a little high, is it possible to tweak this or would using Att=Att+1 work, or Att+2 for Skill-6 and Att+1 for Skill-5?

Stat-9, Skill-6, would equate to Stat-10, Skill-5.

(from the the first of the three rules that influence the task roll--see the very first post of this thread for explanation)

I'm not sure I follow when you say "it seems a little high". Can you give me an example of what you think is high about it? If I had that, I could more fully answer your question. </font>[/QUOTE]Yep, looking at Fritz88s numbers it seems the Skill-6 Att-9 guy went from a 72% chance of formidble to a 25% chance. I might agree with lowering the 72% but 25% seems a little low for expectations coming from CT.

 

[Ptah]

Originally posted by WJP:


...
The other reason I wouldn't start a "Your skill level can never be higher than your stat" rule is that it begs the question, "Which stat can't it be higher than?"

...
But, just remember, CTI does a damn good job of "limiting" characters if they have a low stat.

Look at those two examples I posted. The Stat-5 guy has a much smaller separation between task tests. He improved every time. And, he did roll more higher category difficulty numbers. But, the Stat-7 guy had much bigger gains when skill applied to him.

Agreed and well said. I'll look at those examples, it seems I missed them in cross posting earlier.

 

[Ptah]

Originally posted by WJP:


...
The other reason I wouldn't start a "Your skill level can never be higher than your stat" rule is that it begs the question, "Which stat can't it be higher than?"

...
But, just remember, CTI does a damn good job of "limiting" characters if they have a low stat.

Look at those two examples I posted. The Stat-5 guy has a much smaller separation between task tests. He improved every time. And, he did roll more higher category difficulty numbers. But, the Stat-7 guy had much bigger gains when skill applied to him.

Agreed and well said. I'll look at those examples, it seems I missed them in cross posting earlier.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
[QB]I get that if you have an attribute below 7, you will seldom succeed, regardless of skill level. What I mean is that if you have Att-6, it doesn't matter what skill level you have (up through 6) for a Formidable task, and it doesn't matter until you get to skill-3 for a Difficult task. Always/until skill-3, your odds of success are the same. Once your attribute gets above 6, every skill level matters.

So, what you just said was: Those characters with below average natural ability will hardly ever succeed on Formidable tasks. But, those characters with human average or better characteristics, will have a better time of it

Again, that's by design.

We want characters with low stats to be penalized, don't we?

We want characters with average stats to succeed by making higher task rolls and more often achieving success on higher difficulty categories, right?

And, we want those blessed characters with high natural ability to succeed the most, yes?

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
[QB]I get that if you have an attribute below 7, you will seldom succeed, regardless of skill level. What I mean is that if you have Att-6, it doesn't matter what skill level you have (up through 6) for a Formidable task, and it doesn't matter until you get to skill-3 for a Difficult task. Always/until skill-3, your odds of success are the same. Once your attribute gets above 6, every skill level matters.

So, what you just said was: Those characters with below average natural ability will hardly ever succeed on Formidable tasks. But, those characters with human average or better characteristics, will have a better time of it

Again, that's by design.

We want characters with low stats to be penalized, don't we?

We want characters with average stats to succeed by making higher task rolls and more often achieving success on higher difficulty categories, right?

And, we want those blessed characters with high natural ability to succeed the most, yes?

 

[Supplement Four]

Yep, looking at Fritz88s numbers .../QUOTE]

I think Fritz's numbers are off. It doesn't look like he considered the raising of the stat on Skill-6+. ie. Stat-9, Skill-6, is Stat-10, Skill-5.

 

[Supplement Four]

Yep, looking at Fritz88s numbers .../QUOTE]

I think Fritz's numbers are off. It doesn't look like he considered the raising of the stat on Skill-6+. ie. Stat-9, Skill-6, is Stat-10, Skill-5.

 

[Supplement Four]

And, if you are extremely skilled and attempting a very difficult task, you could be severely punished by this system.

Let's test this...

I'll roll real dice as I write, as I did before. This time, I'll roll different numbers for each example, but I'll keep the same stat, start with a high (by CT standards) skill, and go up in skill level from there.

We already know the system works better with a high stat character. For this example, let's go with a low stat character.

Let's see if an "extremely skilled character" is punished by this system.

Here we go...


Example 1:
Piter fires his AutoPistol, and he takes a shot! DEX-5; AutoPistol-5.

4, 5 = 9 (Routine)

1, 6 4 = 11 (Difficult)

5, 1 = 6 (Easy)

3, 2 4 = 9 (Routine)

3, 2 3 = 8 (Routine)

3, 4 = 7 (Easy)

6, 5 = 11 (Difficult)

4, 5 = 9 (Routine)

6, 5 = 11 (Difficult)

1, 6 2 = 9 (Routine)

Average roll is: 9

0 Very Easy
2 Easy
5 Routine
3 Difficult
0 Formidable
0 Staggering
0 Impossible


Example 2:
Piter has increased his AutoPistol skill. He's now DEX-5, AutoPistol-6

2, 3 6, 2 = 13 (Formidable)

5, 1 2 = 8 (Routine)

4, 4 = 8 (Routine)

1, 1 5 = 7 (Easy)

1, 5 1 = 7 (Easy)

6, 4 = 10 (Difficult)

1, 5 1 = 7 (Easy)

2, 6 5 = 13 (Formidable)

2, 1 3 = 6 (Easy)

3, 6 4 = 13 (Formidable)

Average roll is: 9.2

0 Very Easy
4 Easy
2 Routine
1 Difficult
3 Formidable
0 Staggering
0 Impossible

I got a little unlucky there, rolling six 1's out of 20 dice throws (and then another two 1's on the 9 additional dice throws I was awarded), but still you can see the trend towards the higher totals. By increasing Piter's skill just one level got us up into the higher difficulty
categories.

I'm betting the trend continues. Let's go with one more example, this time moving up two skill levels.


Example 3
Piter is a practicing fool, and he's been able to up his skill another two points in the last 18 months. Now, Piter is DEX-5, AutoPistol-8. Let's see how the rolls turn out. I'll break out my dice and start recording what's
rolled.

1, 6 3 = 10 (Difficult)

5, 2 5 = 12 (Formidable)

3, 6 3 = 12 (Formidable)

4, 4 6, 2 = 16 (Impossible)

3, 5 1 = 9 (Routine)

5, 4 = 9 (Routine)

6, 3 = 9 (Routine)

2, 5 1 = 8 (Routine)

6, 5 = 11 (Difficult)

5, 2 4 = 11 (Difficult)

Average roll is: 10.7

0 Very Easy
0 Easy
4 Routine
3 Difficult
2 Formidable
0 Staggering
1 Impossible


OK, this is a low stat character, and he's got an extremely high stat

Yet...

-1- He wasn't punished when trying to roll high difficulty levels.

-2- He averaged higher task roll totals when skill was increased.

-3- He achieved success on higher difficulty categories as skill was increased.

 

[Supplement Four]

And, if you are extremely skilled and attempting a very difficult task, you could be severely punished by this system.

Let's test this...

I'll roll real dice as I write, as I did before. This time, I'll roll different numbers for each example, but I'll keep the same stat, start with a high (by CT standards) skill, and go up in skill level from there.

We already know the system works better with a high stat character. For this example, let's go with a low stat character.

Let's see if an "extremely skilled character" is punished by this system.

Here we go...


Example 1:
Piter fires his AutoPistol, and he takes a shot! DEX-5; AutoPistol-5.

4, 5 = 9 (Routine)

1, 6 4 = 11 (Difficult)

5, 1 = 6 (Easy)

3, 2 4 = 9 (Routine)

3, 2 3 = 8 (Routine)

3, 4 = 7 (Easy)

6, 5 = 11 (Difficult)

4, 5 = 9 (Routine)

6, 5 = 11 (Difficult)

1, 6 2 = 9 (Routine)

Average roll is: 9

0 Very Easy
2 Easy
5 Routine
3 Difficult
0 Formidable
0 Staggering
0 Impossible


Example 2:
Piter has increased his AutoPistol skill. He's now DEX-5, AutoPistol-6

2, 3 6, 2 = 13 (Formidable)

5, 1 2 = 8 (Routine)

4, 4 = 8 (Routine)

1, 1 5 = 7 (Easy)

1, 5 1 = 7 (Easy)

6, 4 = 10 (Difficult)

1, 5 1 = 7 (Easy)

2, 6 5 = 13 (Formidable)

2, 1 3 = 6 (Easy)

3, 6 4 = 13 (Formidable)

Average roll is: 9.2

0 Very Easy
4 Easy
2 Routine
1 Difficult
3 Formidable
0 Staggering
0 Impossible

I got a little unlucky there, rolling six 1's out of 20 dice throws (and then another two 1's on the 9 additional dice throws I was awarded), but still you can see the trend towards the higher totals. By increasing Piter's skill just one level got us up into the higher difficulty
categories.

I'm betting the trend continues. Let's go with one more example, this time moving up two skill levels.


Example 3
Piter is a practicing fool, and he's been able to up his skill another two points in the last 18 months. Now, Piter is DEX-5, AutoPistol-8. Let's see how the rolls turn out. I'll break out my dice and start recording what's
rolled.

1, 6 3 = 10 (Difficult)

5, 2 5 = 12 (Formidable)

3, 6 3 = 12 (Formidable)

4, 4 6, 2 = 16 (Impossible)

3, 5 1 = 9 (Routine)

5, 4 = 9 (Routine)

6, 3 = 9 (Routine)

2, 5 1 = 8 (Routine)

6, 5 = 11 (Difficult)

5, 2 4 = 11 (Difficult)

Average roll is: 10.7

0 Very Easy
0 Easy
4 Routine
3 Difficult
2 Formidable
0 Staggering
1 Impossible


OK, this is a low stat character, and he's got an extremely high stat

Yet...

-1- He wasn't punished when trying to roll high difficulty levels.

-2- He averaged higher task roll totals when skill was increased.

-3- He achieved success on higher difficulty categories as skill was increased.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
It seems the only time this system benefits you (vice plain vanilla CT) is when you have an obscenely high attribute.

The benefit of the system is that it differientiates between characters of different attributes but same skill.

i.e. Pilot-2, EDU-9 vs. Pilot-2, EDU-4

That's what it brings to the game.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
It seems the only time this system benefits you (vice plain vanilla CT) is when you have an obscenely high attribute.

The benefit of the system is that it differientiates between characters of different attributes but same skill.

i.e. Pilot-2, EDU-9 vs. Pilot-2, EDU-4

That's what it brings to the game.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by WJP:


TASK THROW

Throw 2D.

I'm surprise nobody's asked about spectacular success and spectacular failure using CTI.

Maybe it's more of a MT thing.

But, if you want to use this with CTI, here's how I do it.

SS - anytime the Task Throw total is twice the difficulty number.

And...

SF - anytime the Task Throw total is 0 or less


Use SS and SF this way, it will happen A LOT less often than it does in most games (especially in MT where all you have to do is roll 2+ over your target to get SS).

I like that, though. I think SS and SF should occur rarely during a game--not every other task roll or so.

GM's, keep in mind, if you use this aspect of CTI, that since SS and SF happen infrequently (you can only get SF when negative modifiers are applied to the roll), you should implement more extreme effects.

Many times, in combat, a -2DM will be applied for whatever reason (DEX adjustment, Range adjustment, whatever).

A -2DM will rarely result in a SF occuring--but when it does, maybe the character shot himself in the foot.

Keep in mind how rare SS and SF will happen during a CTI game.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by WJP:


TASK THROW

Throw 2D.

I'm surprise nobody's asked about spectacular success and spectacular failure using CTI.

Maybe it's more of a MT thing.

But, if you want to use this with CTI, here's how I do it.

SS - anytime the Task Throw total is twice the difficulty number.

And...

SF - anytime the Task Throw total is 0 or less


Use SS and SF this way, it will happen A LOT less often than it does in most games (especially in MT where all you have to do is roll 2+ over your target to get SS).

I like that, though. I think SS and SF should occur rarely during a game--not every other task roll or so.

GM's, keep in mind, if you use this aspect of CTI, that since SS and SF happen infrequently (you can only get SF when negative modifiers are applied to the roll), you should implement more extreme effects.

Many times, in combat, a -2DM will be applied for whatever reason (DEX adjustment, Range adjustment, whatever).

A -2DM will rarely result in a SF occuring--but when it does, maybe the character shot himself in the foot.

Keep in mind how rare SS and SF will happen during a CTI game.

 

[Berg]

I keep checking FreelanceTraveller and still no pdf...

 

[Berg]

I keep checking FreelanceTraveller and still no pdf...

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Partly because he's waiting on me to do some number-crunching........

Edit: And what number-crunching it is! WJP, your open-ended rolling makes this tough! 7,776 different possibilities (to make the percentages come out properly for those TD=6, re-roll=6, etc. situations.)

end edit

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Partly because he's waiting on me to do some number-crunching........

Edit: And what number-crunching it is! WJP, your open-ended rolling makes this tough! 7,776 different possibilities (to make the percentages come out properly for those TD=6, re-roll=6, etc. situations.)

end edit