Developments from the larger Science Fiction Universe

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by Bromgrev:
I'm intrigued by the idea of time differential in jump space, a bit like relativistic travel - could be interesting ...

This is how it works in C.J. Cherryh's merchanter universe.
The jumping ship is gone from our universe for a few days, but only a brief time passes for the crew - and they're usually drugged into unconsciousness throughout because of the pain and mental trauma.

 

[Pickles]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
- and they're usually drugged into unconsciousness throughout because of the pain and mental trauma.

Except for the odd crazy female pirate crewmember who likes to stay up for the trip ...

 

[Spinward Scout]

Well, using the JumpGovernor and JumpMitigator I mentioned above along with a Quantum Source Reactor that only needs to be refueled once per year or so, you can make the JumpMitigator variable with the Astrogator roll and still could have a few days in JumpSpace to have all the fun. I haven't worked it all up yet how it would work. Basically, it comes out as a cross between the Star Wars Hyperdrive and the Alternity Drivespace overlayed on top of the Traveller JumpSpace/Drive. That doesn't completely throw a wrench into Traveller, but it does change quite a few things.

Effectively making the Traveller universe 'smaller' and easier to move about.

Dameon

 

[jfetters]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
This is how it works in C.J. Cherryh's merchanter universe.
The jumping ship is gone from our universe for a few days, but only a brief time passes for the crew - and they're usually drugged into unconsciousness throughout because of the pain and mental trauma.

AKA "College"

 

[parmasson]

Sir Dameon,

I do agree in a way but cutting all of the "extra" faceless uwp only worlds out might work just as well. I feel sure that will not happen. So you may be on to something.

On the other hand I like how the current system stands in contrast to the instant gratification, information age model that we live with. Makes the systems more isolated and deepens the danger if you can’t call for help or it will take months for the help to arrive if you have to send a courier off.

The gritty feel of the technology is something I like as well. Big clunky engines that need lots of fuel.

I would like more info on how the OTU Imperium works. Who does what to whom for how long and for how much?

 

[BillDowns]

Originally posted by Black Globe Generator:
That week in jump space is where I tend to introduce rumors and patrons, by way of the passengers.

It's also a great "closed universe" for some adventures, such as mysteries or dangerous stowaways, akin to being trapped on an island with a homicidal maniac.

IIRC, isn't that how Alien starts off, except the crew is a frozen watch?

 

[LKW]

Originally posted by Kurega Gikur:
Sir Dameon,
< deletions >
I would like more info on how the OTU Imperium works. Who does what to whom for how long and for how much?

I deal with this subject in a fair amount of detail in GURPS Traveller: Nobles.

 

[Maladominus]

Originally posted by Jim Fetters:
Dameon hit the nail on the head for me - either reduce the time spent in jumpspace, reduce the size of the empire or make ships faster than J-6.

One of the gripes I have always had with Traveller is the fact that characters age a LOT just by virtue of going from place to place when they do little more than twiddle thumbs for a week at a time while in jumpspace.

Solution: Change Jump Space time to be only 3 days. Not one week. That solves a lot of problems too... and it also makes the Imperium just a little more cohesive. It means that information travels from Spinward Marches to Emperor Strephon in about.... 3 months. Not 8 months.

The other option is to (as you already said) increase the Jump ratings, allowing many ships to do Jump-8 or Jump-9 or whatever. Personally, I would rather leave the Jump ratings alone, and simply decrease the amount of required time in jump space.

 

[jfetters]

Originally posted by Black Globe Generator:

Really? That week in jump space is where I tend to introduce rumors and patrons, by way of the passengers.

It's also a great "closed universe" for some adventures, such as mysteries or dangerous stowaways, akin to being trapped on an island with a homicidal maniac.

Oh, absolutely, but you can only do the "enclosed jumpspace adventure" so many times before it gets old. Especially when you are jumping to several systems in the course of a campaign.

 

[jfetters]

Originally posted by Maladominus:
Change Jump Space time to be only 3 days. Not one week. That solves a lot of problems too... and it also makes the Imperium just a little more cohesive. It means that information travels from Spinward Marches to Emperor Strephon in about.... 3 months. Not 8 months.

The other option is to (as you already said) increase the Jump ratings, allowing many ships to do Jump-8 or Jump-9 or whatever. Personally, I would rather leave the Jump ratings alone, and simply decrease the amount of required time in jump space.

Yes, I think I agree with that approach as well. The jump distances are a little too sacred to me to change - I would rather see time in the hole reduced if anything were to change.

Or here is another idea - the time in jumpspace varies based on the jump distance. Like 1 day/parsec or something like that.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Originally posted by Jim Fetters:
Or here is another idea - the time in jumpspace varies based on the jump distance. Like 1 day/parsec or something like that.

Then there wouldn't be any point to J-2 or higher.

 

[jfetters]

Yeah, 1:1 is a bad ratio (that is what happens when one types faster than thought - bear with me for my lack of coffee...).

Maybe a 3 day minimum, then it starts to slowly increase - but that would have to be more of a house rule, as sliding scales get to be a headache.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Oh yeah, it would justify the per jump pricing scheme, though!

 

[Pickles]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jim Fetters:
Or here is another idea - the time in jumpspace varies based on the jump distance. Like 1 day/parsec or something like that.

Then there wouldn't be any point to J-2 or higher.

</font>[/QUOTE]You'd still have to spend your in-system time between jumps, so bigger jumps would work out faster.

 

[Black Globe Generator]

Originally posted by BillDowns:
IIRC, isn't that how Alien starts off, except the crew is a frozen watch?

Pretty much.

What makes this fun in Traveller is how hazardous it is to go outside while in jump space. It creates a really claustrophobic adventure environment.

And on-topic, I'm agin teleportation or monkeying with jump travel in ways that depart from the existing meterial. The OTU is fine as written for me.

 

[Keklas Rekobah]

Things that IMHO would ruin the flavour of Traveller would include:

- Nanotech. Argued to death.
- FTL radio. Who needs a bunch of player characters who are always waiting around for a group of NPC's to rescue them? I'd rather that they use their own resourcefulness to get themselves out of trouble than simply radio for help and hole up for a week or so doing nothing.
- Light Sabres. Remember that scene in Indiana Jones where they guy is waving a sword at him? *BANG* and the sword wielder drops dead. Even with "The Force", a character could not deflect a full clip of SMG ammo or the blast from a grenade.
- Matter Replicators. This would destroy the entire basis for the Empire to exist -- the support of interstellar commerce! Why import a rare and expensive item when you could have it materialize in the cupboard?
- The Force. Psionics is bad enough without involving the supernatural.
- Transporters. I'd rather have my players come up with their own plan for getting into and out of places.

Jump time...

Okay, this one is more mechanical than setting-oriented, but suppose that along with a random die roll that determines normal time in J-space, the ref rolls 2D-2 to determine how many days pass for the crew. For instance, an outsider would "see" that the ship was in J-space for exactly 7 days. The ref determines that as far as the crew is concerned, they've spent 0 days in transit -- the trip seems instantaneous for the crew, but they were actually gone for a week! Other trips for the same crew could take as long as 10 days subjective time, but take the minimum real time IAW with canon rules.

Maybe the crew would experience a week of travel time, but arrive at their destination before they left! Of course, their J-drive would have a complete and immediate meltdown, resulting in a pile of slag that is impossible to reconstruct.

 

[Spinward Scout]

I do agree in a way but cutting all of the "extra" faceless uwp only worlds out might work just as well. I feel sure that will not happen. So you may be on to something.

That was one of the reasons why I tried to do a Top Worlds of Known Space before. If you increase the speed and distance travelled, certain worlds will become more important or prevalent. Just in the Merchants alone would Deneb be a bigger 'hit' than Regina if you had those 'longer legs' of being able to jump 36 parsecs at a time. And just think how easily you could jump to Zhodane and bombard the hell... er... um... promote diplomatic relations with the Zhodani Consulate. Just think of it, crossing an entire Sector in one jump.

I've always liked the idea of the Third Imperium and all the background. But I've always found the element of Traveller's JumpSpace very restricting and boring. Maybe I should make a Traveller Space Opera Template to throw on top of Traveller. Modular, of course, so people could pick and choose what bits and pieces they'd like added. Maybe this could be a new project for us all. There seems to be an abundance of people on this post that this we should change SOMETHING.

 

[BillDowns]

Since time-in-jump seems to be an issue, has anyone consdered just using Asimov's jump system, i.e. zero time-in-jump? All the remaining time would be getting to a safe distance to jump or getting back. It never hurt any of his stories, especially the Foundation series.

 

[Whipsnade]

Gents,

My 0.02Cr...

- 3D maps are out. RPGs are still primarily paper and pencil games and you can't do 3D in print. We can talk about laptops all we want, but they are rarely used as maps at the gaming table and still don't present a 3D image.

2300AD came close with 3D, but the nature of stutterwarp helped. Stutterwarp's limitations created the Arms whose nature in turn could easily be represented in a 2D format. No one used the Near Star Map as a game map. It was nifty, but it wasn't playable.

Until we have cheap holo projectors, easily used 3D maps are a pipedream.

- Starship Computers. Explain the size issues as having to do with sensors and signal processors. Ditto with bridges with the inclusion of life support. Havign basic life support account for a certain fraction of bridge tonnage scales reasonably well.

- Alien Aliens. We've discussed this before. Traveller's aliens are not as alien as the can be due to the need for them to be used as player-characters. I agree with Dave Nilsen's remarks in TNE's Aliens of the Rim about the GM's response to a player's request to play a Hiver; Are you nuts?. Separate 'aliens' from PC and NPC status and make them events instead. In that fashion they can be truly alien (somewhat as the GM must still 'understand' them enopugh to use them as events.)

- Jump duration. I've no trouble with subjective time aboard a vessel in jump space being less than 168 hours as long as the outside universe sees 168 hours pass. Piper used it, the curmudgeon in Little Fuzzy makes a remark about his calendar age and real age being different due to time dilation effects from hyperspace.

- Cybernetics and nanotechnology. I'm still in the Show Me camp with regards to both. No one, including Drexler, has explained how nanites will get around the power and 'fat fingers' issues. I've also yet to see real cybergear and 'true' AI has been 5 or 10 years off since my early adulthood during the CARTER adminsitration. Are they interesting concepts? Sure. Do they make for fun gaming? Sure. Are they a lead pipe cinch to be employed in the future? Show me.

Until you show me, I'll relegate both to the unnoticed background as I do with robots. IMTU, robots are the 57th Century equivalent of toasters and telephone poles; they're all aorund but people aren't really aware of them and don't call them robots.

- By hook or crook, give the Imperium a frontier.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Ptah]

Starmaps I would love to have 3D starmaps, but practically, and very reluctantly, I have to agree they are too hard to do at present for a table top pen & paper game. Someday when my cell phone can project an image on the table (no need for a holo), it will truly be something I can bring to the table. (that's probably only 5-10 years off )

Computers Never had much problems with the size, certainly might lower it for civilian applications and small craft. I've always imagined that the computational power to adjust the drives, maintian the powerplant containment field and calculate jump coordinates is enormous, yes computers are a factor of 1 million more powerful but the tasjs the are asked to do are even more powerful/difficult.

Aliens One of the saddest parts of Traveller for me, only Star Trek and Star Wars suffer more from the man in a rubber suit complex. Traveller says it is a matter of being playable, the TV and movies a matter of budget. The ideas are still too simplistic for my sci-fi taste. Certainly make near humano-form aliens for playability but do they need to be based on cats and dogs, with our preconceived view of their psycology as well? Hivers rock (and no they are not the Jockta in disguise, the Jockta stood upright ). Broader sci-fi is full of more braodly imagined alien aliens. James White, Silverberg, Niven (even with the Kzin), David Brin, etc. all bring good ideas IMO. Maybe pick up "Barlowe's Guide to Extraterrestrials" and start from there.