CT Only: Experience

[Supplement Four]

As to INT+EDU incentivizing improving EDU, that only works if EDU is lower than INT. So the INT 2, EDU 3 character is forever limited to 5 skill levels...

Yep. And, 5 skills levels is plenty in CT.

The INT 2, EDU 3 dude isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.

Conversely, I once had a player roll up a Doctor with all three physical skills at 2. No lie.

The dude never died during play, either.

Stranger things have happened. :coffeesip:

 

[Supplement Four]

Some notes on the Instruction Skill

INSTRUCTION, PAGE 13, MERCENARY LBB 4



In the discussion above, I think that there are some misconceptions about the Instruction skill. Let's look at that skill a little closer.

First off, the skill is meant for military applications.

The skill reads...

Players with Instructional expertise are capable of training recruits to carry out basic military functions.

We're talking drill Sargents, here, not college professors. "Training large bodies of men" is discussed.




A NOTE ON BOTS

In order for the Instruction skill to work, the bot must have Instruction and the skill being taught. A recruit can be taught to one level lower than the Instruction skill AND the skill in question.

The example has the instructor with Instruction-4, Recon-5, and Demolitions-2. So, this instruction could teach up to Recon-3 and Demolitions-1.



TAKEN OUT OF PLAY

The Instruction skill also takes time. It's not something that can be done while the campaign continues, like many of the normal Experience programs. It's more akin to the Education Sabbatical.

Each skill level takes six weeks of training. The suggestion is that the Ref curtail the campaign activities of both the instructor and the pupil.

Plus, you've got to have training areas. If you are training with explosives to get the Demotions skill, well, that's probably not something that can be done on a tramp freighter.

Even weapon skills. This will be up to the Ref. Maybe some electronic screen can be used, like an arcade game, for weapon practice. I would think, though, for a real skill level, that you'd have to really fire the gun. Which means, you need a firing range--again, probably not on the player's ship.

There is a note that the training time can be lengthened to six months per level (which makes more sense to me) where the character has more down time.

This is all up to the Ref, of course.



DID THE INSTRUCTION WORK?

There's still a roll to see if the skill is improved at the end of the training time, and it's not a super easy throw. 9+ required for improvement. DMs of +1 or +2 can be had if the character has high INT.

So, the easiest throw is 7+ (if INT 10+)after six weeks instructions where the character's time is limited. If this fails, another six weeks must be devoted to get the skill improvement.



REF'S CAUTION

There is even a note in the skill description that says Refs should exercise great caution in allowing PCs to hire NPCs as instructors.





WHAT CAN BE TAUGHT?

According to the training description, the Instruction skill can be used in two ways: for Basic Training*, or for Skill Training**.

*Again, we see that the Instruction skill is meant for military, drill Sargent type situations and not for general skill learning.

**The Instruction skill cannot be taught, according to the skill's description. I guess it's up to the Ref as to the method that Instructors become Instructors.






BASIC TRAINING

Involves weapon familiarization and small unit tactics. "Weapon familiarization" is the same as the Book 1 Default Weapon skills rule.

Any recruit graduating from Basic Training considers all small arms as Default Skills.

Note that anyone with Instruction skill can teach Basic Training, regardless of the other skills that they have. This indicates, again, that the Instruction skill is for military--not general--use.

Ref's using standard Traveller combat may want to read the section on morale in LBB4, as graduating from Basic Training improves a character's morale rating.





SKILL TRAINING

Instruction-1 is required for Basic Training.

Instruction-2 or higher is required for Skill Training. In addition, instructors must have the skill being taught at Level-2 or higher.

A roll is made at the end of training to improve.

An instructor can teach a skill to one level lower than his Instruction skill AND his expertise in the skill being taught.





THE DIFFERENCE IN THE INSTRUCTION METHOD AND THE EXPERIENCE SYSTEM

In general, the difference seems to be that, with the Experience system, the character is training himself.

With the Education focus, the character seems to be taking courses--possibly recorded courses, to raise his general EDU score.

With the Weapon Expertise program, the character seems to be practicing at the range and reading up on his weapon.

With Skill Improvement, the character is limited to raising skills that he already has--not adding new skills. Thus, it seems like he is teaching himself.

The Physical Fitness program is obviously the character working out several times a week.

Except for the Education Sabbatical, this is all stuff that can be done while the character is adventuring. A lot of it can be done on a the player's ship.



With the Instructor method, the character's "off-time" is obviously limited, and this type of learning is more like the Sabbatical. The character goes off and entrenches himself into a learning program. When he comes out, he makes a roll, and if successful, he gets the increase. If he fails the roll, then he must spend more time learning.

With the Experience system, note how the skill improvement is immediate--not at the end of the program, as is the Instruction method.

 

[Supplement Four]

Book 8

ROBOTS AND INSTRUCTION.



Note that giving a Robot the Instruction skill takes up a lot of the units CPU. You still need room for the skill being taught. Emotion Simulation is required. This is all highly expensive.

A robot with Instruction-4, Engineering-4 (to be able to train to Engineering-3), and the Emotion Simulation package. That CPU would require Space 58!

That CPU, alone, would cost tens of thousands of Credits--the same as some vehicles!

So, the thing is expensive. It's a one-shot pony in that it does only one thing. More than likely, individual PCs cannot afford one.

It's up to the Ref to price sessions with a bot like this, but my guess is that it would be prohibitively expensive--tying up an expensive bot like this for six weeks or more.



101 ROBOTS

DGP's 101 Robots has a Coach Robot that can use its Instruction skill to teach a character Athletics-0.

The robot is TL 14 and costs Cr310,500. It can be used to teach Basic Training, too.

 

[aramis]

And one more thought about skill level caps:

The character generation system already has a limiter for,skills: the tension between gaining more experience and the effects of aging.

Adding in the EDU limit skews that -- to the point where some with a low EDU might as well bail on a service after a term or two. (Yes, he could roll on the development table hoping to get more EDU... But that is now a different game.)

That blows the mini-game... And that isn't something I would like to lose.

Naw... that IS the minigame in it's fullness. The expanded dimensions of Experience-limited CGen are a more complex and rich game.

The meaningful choices in CT Bk1 CG are...

• Which service to attempt?
• Which skill tables to roll upon?
• Whether to continue or not?
• (late CT only) which skills to reduce away?

It adds the 4th meaningful choice dimension. It also adds more level 0 skills into the later play.

It hardly blows the minigame... it's potentially negative impact set is that it

• Increases the number of level 0 (level ½ in '77)
• encourages shorter careers before adventuring for low mentals characters
• encourages more rolls on the PDT than other tables, thus reducing the skills received in CG.

 

[Supplement Four]

The meaningful choices in CT Bk1 CG are...
[*](late CT only) which skills to reduce away?

BG mentioned this. I'm not sure that I've seen it. Is this an assumption due to the skill level cap?

Or, is it plainly spelled out in the book (which I've missed) that any character that finishes CharGen violating the skill cap must reduce skills?

Since the skill cap uses the term "generally", I read it as: If you finish chargen with skills totaling higher than the skill cap, then good for you. You don't reduce them.

I'll gladly change that stance if RAW says something different. I just don't see it. (Maybe it's an MT thing...not a CT thing to reduce skill levels?)

[*]encourages shorter careers before adventuring for low mentals characters

I like the thoughts behind this comment, but I'm not sure I agree that the practicalities agree. The Experience system isn't easy, and many player will want to nab as many skills as they can get--especially if what I say above is true--that PC can break the skill cap while in chargen.

 

[mike wightman]

I shall repost the rule as originally presented:

Maximum Skills: As a general rule of thumb, a character
may have no more skills (or total of levels of skills) than
the sum of his or her intelligence and education. For
example, a character with UPP 77894A would be restricted
to a total of 13 combined skills and levels of skills. This
restriction does not apply to level-0 skills.

1. it is a 'general rule of thumb' which means it is not exact or to be taken too literally - to quote Wikipedia "a principle with broad application that is not intended to be strictly accurate or reliable for every situation"
2. what exactly is meant by 'combined skills and levels of skills'
3. there is no mechanism for reducing skills to 0 if you go over the 'rule of thumb'.

So not only is it a punitive, cruel and unnecessary rule it is also open to interpretation and lacks actual rules mechanics for its application.

 

[creativehum]

So not only is it a punitive, cruel and unnecessary rule it is also open to interpretation and lacks actual rules mechanics for its application.

Wightman, you are such a killjoy

 

[Supplement Four]

I shall repost the rule as originally presented:

I take that to mean: If a character rolls more skills than his limit in Chargen, let him have it. If the character gets out of chargen with less skills and levels, then he can use the Experience system to improve skills up to the limit of his skill cap.

I don't recall clearly, but I think in MT, there is a line that mentions reducing skills if over the cap. But, MT, even with Basic CharGen, ends up with characters with more skills. I'm sure Aramis will correct this if I'm wrong--he knows MT well.

1. it is a 'general rule of thumb' which means it is not exact or to be taken too literally - to quote Wikipedia "a principle with broad application that is not intended to be strictly accurate or reliable for every situation"

I think it is meant to be taken more literally than you are taking it.

The "general" comment is to character generation--as I have described above--where a character can come out of Chargen with higher skills than the cap. Otherwise, the cap remains for most characters.

That's my interpretation. I think it is correct, but there is certainly room for argument.

2. what exactly is meant by 'combined skills and levels of skills'

It means that if you have INT-4 and EDU-3, then the character is limited to seven Level-1 skills, or a total of 7 if all skills are counted, where the skills include some that are higher than Level-1.

3. there is no mechanism for reducing skills to 0 if you go over the 'rule of thumb'.

Which is a reason why I don't think the intent is to take away skills earned in CharGen.

So not only is it a punitive, cruel and unnecessary rule it is also open to interpretation and lacks actual rules mechanics for its application.

I like the rule. As has been said, it doesn't always come into play. When it does, it is an effective penalty for those characters who aren't quick or learned.

Plus, it puts a hard limit for lucky Scouts, who get two skills per term.





THE REF

The skill cap is one of those things that is up to the Ref, or dependent on which rule set that you use.

Supplement 4 - Citizens of the Imperium and LBB1 - Characters And Combat both do not mention the rule. But, The Traveller Book and Starter Traveller both use the rule.

I believe it is an intended rule because it shows up in the last CT versions, TTB and Starter Traveller.

But, like the Pulse Laser rule in Starter Traveller, it's really just up to the Ref, dependent on how he wants to run his game.

 

[Supplement Four]

Maximum Skills

The reason I like the Maximum Skills rule is my experience with Classic Traveller. A good CT Ref always has an eye on modifiers. The 2D6 system is easily broken.

It doesn't happen often, but players do get lucky with the dice. I've seen characters with Skill-5 skills (I think I saw a Level-7 once). This tends to happen more often if the Optional Survival Rule is used (what I call the "Soft Survival Rule", where the only real threat of failing Survival is forced Mustering Out instead of Death).

The skill cap is a mechanical way to keep an eye on characters, like Scouts who get lucky and survive several terms, ending up with a ton of skills. The characters are super-powerhouses when compared with your average CT character. The skill cap keeps them to just "powerhouses", dropping the "super" part.

And, the cap makes sense "in game", too. If a character is not smart and not well educated, it is reasonable to accept that the character does not have has many skills as a normally educated character that also has an average IQ.

Most of the time, the skill cap will not come into question, as CT doesn't usually deliver a huge number of skills for a character. For those rare occasions when it does (or when a character has a low INT and EDU combined), the skill cap is there to keep super dupers from happening and those of low IQ and no education from being overly qualified.

 

[kilemall]

I would argue that many of the skills acquired during commission/promotion are gained during Instruction sessions of the service or organization that employs the character, just like the LBB4+ various technical and command schools.

 

[Brandon C]

It means that if you have INT-4 and EDU-3, then the character is limited to seven Level-1 skills, or a total of 7 if all skills are counted, where the skills include some that are higher than Level-1.

No.

Combined skills and skill levels limit for that character is 7. So if he has 3 skills, he can have no more than 4 skill levels (3 skills + 4 levels = 7 combined skills and skill levels).

 

[Brandon C]

Most of the time, the skill cap will not come into question, as CT doesn't usually deliver a huge number of skills for a character. For those rare occasions when it does (or when a character has a low INT and EDU combined), the skill cap is there to keep super dupers from happening and those of low IQ and no education from being overly qualified.

So characters who get lucky and roll high INT and EDU at the start get a free pass while those who are unlucky on those rolls must be penalized?

 

[Blue Ghost]

Fudge is a free game system that can be greatly customized for specific campaigns.

You get a small number of experience points each session and can spend them on gaining or improving abilities.

GT is another option, and doesn't require you customize anything, just pick the 3e or 4e version.

GURPS 3E uses character points, and there's a whole criteria on page 184 of how to award such points. It's much different from what I recall about basic D&D and AD&D some twenty or thirty years ago.

Based on the themes that the CT adventures and double adventures offer, there is more of a completing the objective emphasis in those old adventures, and not much in the way of vanquishing alien monsters / animals.

 

[Supplement Four]

No.

Combined skills and skill levels limit for that character is 7. So if he has 3 skills, he can have no more than 4 skill levels (3 skills + 4 levels = 7 combined skills and skill levels).

I don't read it that way at all. I read it as I said: a character with a skill cap of 7 can have seven Level-1 skills, or he can have Skill-3 and four Level-1 skills, or he can have Skill-2, Skill-2, and three skills at Level-1, or some combination of 7.

So characters who get lucky and roll high INT and EDU at the start get a free pass while those who are unlucky on those rolls must be penalized?

Yep. Just like a character who gets lucky and rolls physical stats of BBB has more "hit points" than a character who didn't get lucky and rolled physical stats of 333. The lucky character can take damage that would kill the other character and still not be considered seriously wounded.

 

[Supplement Four]

I don't see the skill cap mentioned in LBBs 4-6. I see in in LBB 7, under "Skill Limitations", but I don't see it in the other books.

 

[Supplement Four]

No.

Combined skills and skill levels limit for that character is 7. So if he has 3 skills, he can have no more than 4 skill levels (3 skills + 4 levels = 7 combined skills and skill levels).

The rule was adopted by MegaTraveller, and it is clear in the MT PG that the way I see it is the way it is mean to be used. What you're saying is way too restrictive.

I'll note that the MT PG also specifically states that a character cannot exceed his limit coming out of character generation. But, I'll also say that MT characters typically earn more skills than CT characters, due to homeworld and background skills plus the extra skill roll that MT characters get in Basic Chargen to keep them on par with Adavanced Chargen characters.

There is a box for the INT + EDU limit on the MT character sheet.

 

[Brandon C]

I don't read it that way at all.

I don't see any other way to read it.

Yep. Just like a character who gets lucky and rolls physical stats of BBB has more "hit points" than a character who didn't get lucky and rolled physical stats of 333. The lucky character can take damage that would kill the other character and still not be considered seriously wounded.

This is largely why I gave up on random character generation 20 years ago.

 

[kilemall]

I don't see the skill cap mentioned in LBBs 4-6. I see in in LBB 7, under "Skill Limitations", but I don't see it in the other books.

Fun fact, it's also in LBB8, limiting robot skills.

 

[kilemall]

So characters who get lucky and roll high INT and EDU at the start get a free pass while those who are unlucky on those rolls must be penalized?

Yes.


Traveller chargen is definitely 'tough luck' some people get it easy some don't.

 

[BlackBat242]

I don't see the skill cap mentioned in LBBs 4-6. I see in in LBB 7, under "Skill Limitations", but I don't see it in the other books.

As discussed before, it first appears in The Traveller Book (1982), which is a compilation & updating of LBB 1-5, all of which were published before TTB.