I agree (might have been 0.2" rather than 5mm at the time, or 5mm re-labeled as 0.2").
In any case, the available paper size clearly constrained the deck plan design to a lesser fineness than the artwork.
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CT Only: Fixing the Type T Deck Plans?
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In any case, the available paper size clearly constrained the deck plan design to a lesser fineness than the artwork.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
An ellipsis is π/2 ≈ 1.57 times larger than a rhomboid, that i started to calculate with. The basic hull above is almost 650 Dt...
The decks are ~386 Dt and about 260 Dt is wasted in the hull curvature. Good enough proportions, but too big.
Thanks for the clarification!
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Iteration 2:
Use proportions 1:2:8 to be able to squeeze in three decks in a smaller (correct) hull.
11 m high, 22 m wide, and 88 m long gives a total of ~5575 m3 ≈ 398 Dt, leaves very little for the wings, but good enough.
Deck A & C are triangles 15 m × 24 m = 180 m2 ≈ 80 squares ≈ 40 Dt each.
Deck B is a triangle 21 m × 64 m = 672 m2 ≈ 299 squares ≈ 149 Dt.
Total in decks ~230 Dt, so 170 Dt lost in hull curvature. Since the ship carries 160 Dt fuel that is close to perfect! Throw in some sensors and avionics in the hull curvature and it is spot on.
Cut off the last 8 m of the nose, and replace with a rounded nose-cone, to make it look less pointy. It would only lose half a Dton of space, so inconsequential.
Use proportions 1:2:8 to be able to squeeze in three decks in a smaller (correct) hull.
11 m high, 22 m wide, and 88 m long gives a total of ~5575 m3 ≈ 398 Dt, leaves very little for the wings, but good enough.
Deck A & C are triangles 15 m × 24 m = 180 m2 ≈ 80 squares ≈ 40 Dt each.
Deck B is a triangle 21 m × 64 m = 672 m2 ≈ 299 squares ≈ 149 Dt.
Total in decks ~230 Dt, so 170 Dt lost in hull curvature. Since the ship carries 160 Dt fuel that is close to perfect! Throw in some sensors and avionics in the hull curvature and it is spot on.
Cut off the last 8 m of the nose, and replace with a rounded nose-cone, to make it look less pointy. It would only lose half a Dton of space, so inconsequential.
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Well, what's in there anyhow?
(This is gonna be a wretched formatting mess, sorry)
Item: Tonnage: Notes:
Bridge 20 Some can be in tip fins as sensors or antennae or whatnot
Computer 3 Adjacent to flight deck
Crew SRs 24 Flight crew only (6). Segregate from gunners and troops. (Why aren't gunners crew?)
Crew SRs 24 Gunners and Troops, in double-occupancy (4+8) (but why only them in 2x?)
LoBerths 2 Probably shouldn't be adjacent to the bridge. Maybe near cargo hold?
Turrets 4 Standard 1Td Turrets.
Jump F 35 A big object whose shape will strongly affect the aft part of the hull, but flexible.
MD H 15 If these are the drives hanging out the back in the pictures, they're too small.
PP H 25 Maybe part of those drives is power plant? Makes sense in 1st Edition anyway.
Fuel 160 J3 (120) + Pn4 (40) and nearly all of it's in the wings?
Boat 30 This is a big object whose shape will dominate the aft part of the hull once chosen.
GCarrier 8 Not that big, but it's a block and it needs an exterior door and to be adjacent to troops.
Cargo 50
Expanded Remarks:
- I don't know why they gave the gunners half-staterooms when the rest of the flight crew have full-sized ones. (The troops, I kind of understand.)
- I also don't know what the 4th seat on the flight deck of the FASA plans is for. Pilot, Navigator, Chief Engineer. There's no dedicated gunnery officer, and LBB2 doesn't need one anyhow. Still, it could be the laser gunner's slot (for single-battery configurations), with the missile gunner being back near the launchers.
- The big thing that's going to be an arbitrary shape is the ship's boat. Need to settle on a design for it (that thematically matches the parent vessel) because the back of the ship will be built around its docking bay.
- The drawing also has some pretty big drive assemblies sticking out the back. I think they're supposed to be maneuver drives, but LBB2 ones are too small unless you bundle them in with the power plant -- so I'll probably do that.
(This is gonna be a wretched formatting mess, sorry)
Item: Tonnage: Notes:
Bridge 20 Some can be in tip fins as sensors or antennae or whatnot
Computer 3 Adjacent to flight deck
Crew SRs 24 Flight crew only (6). Segregate from gunners and troops. (Why aren't gunners crew?)
Crew SRs 24 Gunners and Troops, in double-occupancy (4+8) (but why only them in 2x?)
LoBerths 2 Probably shouldn't be adjacent to the bridge. Maybe near cargo hold?
Turrets 4 Standard 1Td Turrets.
Jump F 35 A big object whose shape will strongly affect the aft part of the hull, but flexible.
MD H 15 If these are the drives hanging out the back in the pictures, they're too small.
PP H 25 Maybe part of those drives is power plant? Makes sense in 1st Edition anyway.
Fuel 160 J3 (120) + Pn4 (40) and nearly all of it's in the wings?
Boat 30 This is a big object whose shape will dominate the aft part of the hull once chosen.
GCarrier 8 Not that big, but it's a block and it needs an exterior door and to be adjacent to troops.
Cargo 50
Expanded Remarks:
- I don't know why they gave the gunners half-staterooms when the rest of the flight crew have full-sized ones. (The troops, I kind of understand.)
- I also don't know what the 4th seat on the flight deck of the FASA plans is for. Pilot, Navigator, Chief Engineer. There's no dedicated gunnery officer, and LBB2 doesn't need one anyhow. Still, it could be the laser gunner's slot (for single-battery configurations), with the missile gunner being back near the launchers.
- The big thing that's going to be an arbitrary shape is the ship's boat. Need to settle on a design for it (that thematically matches the parent vessel) because the back of the ship will be built around its docking bay.
- The drawing also has some pretty big drive assemblies sticking out the back. I think they're supposed to be maneuver drives, but LBB2 ones are too small unless you bundle them in with the power plant -- so I'll probably do that.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Look at the salaries: Gunners are the scum of starships crews. Pack them in tight.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Quite, it's almost 10% of the ships volume. It will take up a lot of space in, say, the middle of Decks A & B.
The hangar should have easy access to the GCarrier and the cargo hold, to be able to load/unload.
I would push the drives to the sides to leave space in the middle of the aft for hatches.
Traders & Gunboats makes a standard Ship's Boat 4.5 m in diameters, so ~26 m long, that is one and a half decks high and 3 squares wide and 18 squares long...
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I like that design (and it's a good approximation).
Still, in a universe where the canon Type T is "normal" and "well-designed", the ship's boat ought to have aerodynamically suspect but artistically-pleasing wings and fins too. Maybe they fold or something.
There's 1.8Td of fuel that could be moved out into wings, and perhaps a couple of tons of "bridge" could go there as well.
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AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
That Ship's Boat is a big chunk of real estate, e.g.:
It neatly bisects the entire Deck A into two tiny decks.
It neatly bisects the entire Deck A into two tiny decks.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
I tend to use the same cross-section for all standard Imperial small craft, and only vary the length. That way they would all fit the same docking rings and tube hangars. E.g. you could fit a Launch and a Ship's Boat in a Cutter hangar.
With an elliptical cross-section (instead of a circle) you get a better fit for decks, so more usable space. Small craft are not burdened with all that much fuel to hide in the nooks...
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Space aboard ships is expensive. The most important thing is that they store compactly.
Lifting body + lots of thrust = flight:
And I started off thinking in terms of the X-20!Space aboard ships is expensive. The most important thing is that they store compactly.
Lifting body + lots of thrust = flight:
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Perhaps we can offset the Boat a little to the side to give space for the GCarrier beside it, so it can easily be loaded into the boat or exit the ship to the rear.
If Deck C is cargo (40 Dt vs 50 Dt, eh, good enough), a cargo elevator down to Deck C would be convenient. The elevator can also extend down to the ground when landed.
If Deck C is cargo (40 Dt vs 50 Dt, eh, good enough), a cargo elevator down to Deck C would be convenient. The elevator can also extend down to the ground when landed.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Make a cross-section at the end of the hangar:
Yes, we can easily push the hangar to the side a bit, however ugly the asymmetry may be.
Yes, we can easily push the hangar to the side a bit, however ugly the asymmetry may be.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Offset the Boat by 1.5 m and add a GCarrier hangar beside it, with access to the exterior:
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
So uh ... I posted deck plans for my Patrol Corvette, that evolves the Type-T into an LBB5.80 context ... 
I'm rather pleased with how well those plans worked out, all things considered.
I'm rather pleased with how well those plans worked out, all things considered.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
With deck plans I get:
Hull and deck layout:
I can't say I'm very happy with the result, long narrow ships are a PITA. The boat almost divides the ship into two unconnected parts.
This version of the Type T is known for its lack of storage space. Often the cargo hold cranny ahead of the Lift is used for general storage, but that is not very conveniently located.
The main through-fare is the EVA room where the main vertical lift (and parallel emergency hatch shaft) meets the vehicle hangars, and access to the cargo hold. The troop barracks on Deck A connects through the EVA room. The Lift and Cargo Elevator extend down to the ground when landed. The Lift works as an airlock.
The GCarrier can exit the ship aft, or go forward to the Cargo Elevator to enter the cargo hold of the Ship's Boat to be transported. Cargo can be loaded via the Boat, GCarrier, or directly into the hold. The Boat bay can be used as a cargo airlock.
The front two cabins are adjacent to the bridge, protected by an extra bulkhead, in case mutiny is a possibility. The bridge area has separate emergency hatches top and bottom.
There are eight cabins for naval crew, and a single barracks for troops. Generally the gunners have to share cabins. The cabins are quite small, to free space for common areas. There are two crew lounges, separated by a short corridor and closed doors, so everyone doesn't need to rub elbows 24 hours a day. Troops have their own common area and galley.
Engineering is divided into port and starboard compartments. Machinery extends into the wing roots.
Hull and deck layout:
I can't say I'm very happy with the result, long narrow ships are a PITA. The boat almost divides the ship into two unconnected parts.
This version of the Type T is known for its lack of storage space. Often the cargo hold cranny ahead of the Lift is used for general storage, but that is not very conveniently located.
The main through-fare is the EVA room where the main vertical lift (and parallel emergency hatch shaft) meets the vehicle hangars, and access to the cargo hold. The troop barracks on Deck A connects through the EVA room. The Lift and Cargo Elevator extend down to the ground when landed. The Lift works as an airlock.
The GCarrier can exit the ship aft, or go forward to the Cargo Elevator to enter the cargo hold of the Ship's Boat to be transported. Cargo can be loaded via the Boat, GCarrier, or directly into the hold. The Boat bay can be used as a cargo airlock.
The front two cabins are adjacent to the bridge, protected by an extra bulkhead, in case mutiny is a possibility. The bridge area has separate emergency hatches top and bottom.
There are eight cabins for naval crew, and a single barracks for troops. Generally the gunners have to share cabins. The cabins are quite small, to free space for common areas. There are two crew lounges, separated by a short corridor and closed doors, so everyone doesn't need to rub elbows 24 hours a day. Troops have their own common area and galley.
Engineering is divided into port and starboard compartments. Machinery extends into the wing roots.
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I'm not a big fan of having an internal dock for the ships boat. The standard 4.5 m design can tuck nicely in an external sling under the main ship.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
I agree, but if we are making deck plans for the existing illustration of the Type T, our hands are tied: internal hangar it is.
Slinging the boat under the ship has disadvantages when landed, especially in water. Slinging the boat(s) on top allows them to launch even while landed.
I made this a few years ago:
Dual boats in "power bulges" on the top of the ship. Still internal, but doesn't steal too much space from the decks. Works fairly well.
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
Yikes! What a mess!
You managed to make something longer than I did (64.5m vs my 60m) which is thinner at the nose (1.5m vs my 4.5m) and wider at the stern (21m vs my 19.5m) and still wind up with a ship architecture that needs a lot more improvement before it ought to become usable/habitable.
It is interesting though that we both wound up in relatively close accord on dimensions the way we both did.
THAT. THEY. ARE.
I'm going to try a second draft of my own deck plans I did yesterday, testing to see if lengthening and narrowing the fuselage to make a better "lawn dart" shape will help any. However, in order to do that, I'm going to need to extend my graph paper out left/right to give myself more than just 40 squares to work with for deck space.
