Future Plans - Licensing?

[Avenger Enterprises]

The problem here is the illegal publication of my work by QLI. Had they paid for it as per contract, and dscussed re-use when they chose to do reprint, then there would be absolutely no problem.

However, since QLI contracted me to write for them and then failed to meet their end of the deal, that means that they never had the right to publish at least some of the things they did. Since publishing those works at all was a copyright violation, if is therefore not reasonable to claim that they could then be released as open content for anyone to use - the firm releasing these works never had the right to do so.

I *did* try to resolve this. Repeatedly. Unfortunately, even the books that went out with my name on the cover seem to get credited to other people these days. It's pretty galling to be told that 'the firm that stole your IP placed it in the public domain so now anyone can make money on the work you didn't get paid for.'

That's what this comes down to, really.

 

[rancke]

However, since QLI contracted me to write for them and then failed to meet their end of the deal, that means that they never had the right to publish at least some of the things they did. Since publishing those works at all was a copyright violation, if is therefore not reasonable to claim that they could then be released as open content for anyone to use - the firm releasing these works never had the right to do so.

That certainly sounds wrong to this non-lawyer. But it doesn't address the issue I asked about. The text you wrote and didn't get paid for was a Traveller text, right? So I would think that anyone who wanted to publish it would have to get permission from you AND from Marc Miller.


Hans

 

[rich4421972]

I do want to say that I have used the OGL 1.0a myself. but do have a hard time understanding this particular application of it. Also, I love SciFi20 and wish there was more to it than just the four books.

The problem here is the illegal publication of my work by QLI. Had they paid for it as per contract, and dscussed re-use when they chose to do reprint, then there would be absolutely no problem.

However, since QLI contracted me to write for them and then failed to meet their end of the deal, that means that they never had the right to publish at least some of the things they did. Since publishing those works at all was a copyright violation, if is therefore not reasonable to claim that they could then be released as open content for anyone to use - the firm releasing these works never had the right to do so.

I *did* try to resolve this. Repeatedly. Unfortunately, even the books that went out with my name on the cover seem to get credited to other people these days.

It's pretty galling to be told that 'the firm that stole your IP placed it in the public domain so now anyone can make money on the work you didn't get paid for.'

A very fair point

That's what this comes down to, really.

I agree that the text is yours because, as I tore into my copy of SciFi20, I admired the new layout but noticed that the text was the same in certain parts. I don't see chapter 16 "Universe/Worlds Development" in the Open content, and, as I said, that seems to have become verbatim the "Planetology guide" along with Appendix I.
Funny how animal encounters was placed in Planetology but not in the Player's Handbook.

In SciFi20, it seems like almost everything is open except the descriptions of design sequences/ character generation and so forth.

• All of Chapter 1: Basic Attributes
• All of Chapter 2: Humans and Aliens
• All of Chapter 3: Homeworlds
• All of Chapter 4: Prior History
• All of Chapter 5: Classes
• All of Chapter 6: Skills
• All of Chapter 7: Feats
• All of Chapter 8: Equipment

It is the express intent of the publisher that all classes, feats, skills, and other rules that are derivative of the d20 SRD and other Open Game Content be released and added to the existing body of Open Game Content for free use under the principals and requirements of the Open Game License. Those sections that are solely derived from the original Traveller canon works, such as the vehicle and starship design, or the world building rules remain closed content and are not considered Open Game Content.
All final world specifications. You may use any final generated world or animal statistics as OGC, but you cannot explain or detail how it was actually created. The Animal Development rules and final stats are also considered OGC.

 

[Avenger Enterprises]

Hans said:

"So I would think that anyone who wanted to publish it would have to get permission from you AND from Marc Miller."

Yes, I think that's right.

 

[Avenger Enterprises]

As an aside, if anyone wants the rights to use the work I did for QLI, I'm open to offers. Including ludicrously small ones.

 

[Avenger Enterprises]

I'm not surprised the text was the same in SF20. Hunter Gordon could do coding and layout and such, but he was no writer. If some parts of T20 are hard to follow, you should have seen how it looked before I reworked it!

Ultimately, I believe that what killed QLI was an inability to find writers. I wrote virtually everything that was published during my time there, with about four other people contributing. Only one of them contributed more than one piece.

QLI forced my departure by refusing to settle my dispute over the fact that they owed me a lot of money for work already done. Once I was gone there was exactly one more Traveller product plus SF20, which was ultimately nothing more than a reformatting of T20 with Traveller-specific words reused.

 

[DaveChase]

So, has Marc offered to settle up with you after the bonaza of kickstarter dollars that FFE got for T5?

It would only seem right and fair if he did.



Dave Chase

 

[atpollard]

It could be fun to create a setting + adventure for SciFi20, and that could also help to spread the word on SciFi20!

Since the original question concerns creating new stuff for SciFi20, and at least some of the SciFi20 OGL and T20 OGL content may be tainted, I suggest the safest route to be to rely on the D20 OGL SRD text and the Mongoose Traveller Rules OGL SRD (whatever the heck the called it) to generate any equivalent OGL data for use in a proposed "setting" or "adventure".

As mentioned, rules mechanics cannot be copyrighted so use the game mechanics from any source you want, just describe them in your own words if they are not in a safe OGL release. And contact Avenger if there is some specific wording that you want to use, it might be theirs to sell for a little as a pint at the local pub
... (or so I have heard from the rumor mill).

I seriously doubt that there is much in T20 or SciFi20 that isn't covered with different wording in the D20 or Mongoose OGL, so exercise a little care with verbatim copying and creating new products for SciFi20 seems like an achievable goal.

 

[atpollard]

So, has Marc offered to settle up with you after the bonaza of kickstarter dollars that FFE got for T5?

It would only seem right and fair if he did.

It would be generous if he did, but how does FFE owe money to Martin if QLI didn't pay a writer? Shouldn't they pay any unpaid writers from TNE or T4 first?

Coming to some agreement with Avenger (Martin) would seem a prerequisite for FFE to release a T20 CD, both of which would make me happy, but I don't really see it as a FFE debt to be repaid.

I don't really care to stir that particular pot since far too much blood and ink has been spilled on that already, but I do not see the issue being resolved short of the expiration of copyrights a century from now ... That being the case, much of T20 and SciFi20 are and will remain a copyright minefield best avoided completely or negotiated using safe OGL SRD resources to create equivalent compatible products and completely avoiding any derivatives from tainted sources.

From professional experience, one lawsuit can ruin your entire year ... even if you win, you have already lost.

 

[DaveChase]

It would be generous if he did, but how does FFE owe money to Martin if QLI didn't pay a writer? Shouldn't they pay any unpaid writers from TNE or T4 first?

Coming to some agreement with Avenger (Martin) would seem a prerequisite for FFE to release a T20 CD, both of which would make me happy, but I don't really see it as a FFE debt to be repaid.

...

Never said that FFE owes for QLI debt. What I was suggesting was that if Marc offered to pay some of the cost that MJD didn't get, then maybe we could get that T20 CD.

Plus, if one wanted to clear up any long term, down the road possible bad memory of Hunter, IMO, that would definately be a good way to help erase some of that bad feeling.

Dave Chase

 

[rich4421972]

Never said that FFE owes for QLI debt. What I was suggesting was that if Marc offered to pay some of the cost that MJD didn't get, then maybe we could get that T20 CD.

Plus, if one wanted to clear up any long term, down the road possible bad memory of Hunter, IMO, that would definately be a good way to help erase some of that bad feeling.

Dave Chase

I don't see it as being FFE's debt, either. I think this line of thinking goes along with the "Marc made too much money on the kickstarter, ergo, it should belong to us now (in large unmarked bills)."

T20 was/is a new interpretation of the 3.0 SRD as applied to a modern SF setting, thus it was a stand alone but for the logo. I think Marc was consulted because it used the name "Traveller" and the italic blue gradient "Optima" font. This was, I think, before the days of the Mongoose Traveller Logo License

Money (or the donation of it) doesn't seem to be a solution, here. There seems to be a lot of hurt on both sides based on the use/misuse of an artist's work. The pain isn't going away and I am afraid that a great product (SF20) is being held in limbo until the issue is fixed. I think there is a lot of betrayal here.

 

[rich4421972]

This series looks really spiffy!

What are the future plans for supplements for the SciFi20 system?

Is there going to be a compatibility license for publishers?

What about web freebies?

It could be fun to create a setting + adventure for SciFi20, and that could also help to spread the word on SciFi20!

This is brilliant. I like to think of SciFi20 like this, too. The books are beautiful, the content has been updated to fall more in line with current scientific knowledge and there is a new layout that I do like. Remember that there are two steps to working with the d20 system:

1). reading and understanding the OGL 1.0a. This includes learning the difference between "open content" and "product identity" and how to list them

2)reading and understanding the Game System License. Applying for usage of the Game System License from WotC (There's a 14 day waiting period after/if you are approved)

 

[aramis]

T20 was/is a new interpretation of the 3.0 SRD as applied to a modern SF setting, thus it was a stand alone but for the logo. I think Marc was consulted because it used the name "Traveller" and the italic blue gradient "Optima" font. This was, I think, before the days of the Mongoose Traveller Logo License

Actually, large chunks of T20 (including ship design) are almost directly from Traveller.

 

[DaveChase]

I don't see it as being FFE's debt, either. I think this line of thinking goes along with the "Marc made too much money on the kickstarter, ergo, it should belong to us now (in large unmarked bills)."
...

Don't go putting words in my mouth or what I wrote.
You know damn well I say what I mean and I didn't say or even hint at that comment thought.

I don't begrude Marc at all for his Kickstarter record. I am damn glad to see one of my favorite games get that kind of support.
If I hadn't been broke at the time, I would have put into the Traveller Kickstarter too.

That comment sounds more like someone who doesn't like the thought of money that they donated going toward someone that they have issues with in the past.

And getting paid some of what MJD is owed might go a long way in getting all the T20 material in a CD. NOTE: I Do Not Represent or Claim any Knowledge of this as being true. I believe it to be true but I have no proof of it.

Money (or the donation of it) doesn't seem to be a solution, here. There seems to be a lot of hurt on both sides based on the use/misuse of an artist's work. The pain isn't going away and I am afraid that a great product (SF20) is being held in limbo until the issue is fixed. I think there is a lot of betrayal here.

Yes, there was.

Now, honestly, I think it is time for this thread to be locked.

Dave Chase

 

[rich4421972]

Don't go putting words in my mouth or what I wrote.
You know damn well I say what I mean and I didn't say or even hint at that comment thought.

I don't begrude Marc at all for his Kickstarter record. I am damn glad to see one of my favorite games get that kind of support.
If I hadn't been broke at the time, I would have put into the Traveller Kickstarter too.

That comment sounds more like someone who doesn't like the thought of money that they donated going toward someone that they have issues with in the past.

And getting paid some of what MJD is owed might go a long way in getting all the T20 material in a CD. NOTE: I Do Not Represent or Claim any Knowledge of this as being true. I believe it to be true but I have no proof of it.



Yes, there was.

Now, honestly, I think it is time for this thread to be locked.

Dave Chase

I don't think I know you.

 

[DaveChase]

I don't think I know you.

Hey, I sent you a PM by mistake and another apologizing for it.

Sorry about the first. I don't have a clue how your name got on that first one.

Dave Chase

 

[rich4421972]

Hey, I sent you a PM by mistake and another apologizing for it.

Sorry about the first. I don't have a clue how your name got on that first one.

Dave Chase

Absolutely no problem. You are correct at any rate.

 

[Avenger Enterprises]

I've never attempted to block a T20 CD, and never really considered that I had any chance or right to do so. I heard that there was to be one, but I was too busy with other and more relevant things than to worry about it.

Just mentioning this in case anyone thinks I'm an/the obstacle to a T20 CD. If there is one at all, I know nothing about it. Nobody has discussed any aspect of this with me and I'm honestly not sure what I'd say if they did. Never really considered it before.

I don't know why the T20 CD was announced then went quiet, but that has happened with other Traveller projects before so it could be almost anything. I'm not going to speculate.

 

[Avenger Enterprises]

Quote:
Money (or the donation of it) doesn't seem to be a solution, here. There seems to be a lot of hurt on both sides based on the use/misuse of an artist's work. The pain isn't going away and I am afraid that a great product (SF20) is being held in limbo until the issue is fixed. I think there is a lot of betrayal here.

Just so we're clear... if anything regarding SF20 or T20 is being held in limbo, then I'm not aware of it. Nobody has discussed this with me and I don't imagine anyone would. There may be reasons why this is all stalled, but it's nothing whatsoever to do with me.

I have no information about SF20, other than that it illegally reused my work. I don't know if anyone else even cares about that - I don't recall discussing SF20 with anyone in fact, not until now.

 

[Avenger Enterprises]

And contact Avenger if there is some specific wording that you want to use, it might be theirs to sell for a little as a pint at the local pub

What *does* a pint of 18 year old McAllan cost?