Futuristic takes on old weapons

[DaveChase]

Neither Gunpower, Nitrocellulose (guncotton), nor cordite are technically explosives. They're fast burning high gas expansion self-oxidizing combustables, but don't normally create a detonation wave, which is the definitive "yes, this is an explosion" characteristic.

Some terminology systems call them "low explosives" - others only use "explosive" for detonation wave generating effects.

Did you actually read my post completely?

Got to love it when others continue to beat a point that has been concurred while missing the point that the other individual has made.

BP is an explosive. Modern (smokeless) powder is not.

(sigh)

Dave Chase

 

[atpollard]

I think that this is primarily a semantic problem concerning the term 'explosive'.
More technical terms like 'Detonation' and 'Deflagration' might help.

Detonation involves a supersonic shock front propagating through a medium and is characteristic of High Explosives like Nitroglycerin and TNT.

Deflagration involves subsonic combustion propagating through thermal conductivity and is characteristic of Low Explosives like Black Powder AND Smokeless Powders.

So black powder and smokeless powder both deflagrate (burn) rather than detonate (shock wave explosion), while they may be treated differently under the legal definition of 'explosive'.

 

[Timerover51]

The following discussion of the characteristics of high and low explosives comes from the TM9-1904, Ammunition Inspection Guide, 2 March 1944, published by the US War Department. It is a copyright-free, public domain document. I have a hard copy of it as well. It is not the most recent, but I do have it on my computer in PDF format, so as it is the easiest that I have to post. I can post more recent documents if needed, but I would need to either scan them in and OCR them or hand type the necessary information. The page numbers are 67 and 68.

HIGH EXPLOSIVES AND LOW EXPLOSIVES.

Military explosives are divided into a class of low explosives or high explosives. These two groups differ generally in three major characteristics; namely, method of initiation, rapidity of reaction, and results of reaction . A brief chart will best serve to visualize these differences.


Method of initiation: Low Explosive, Flame or spark, High Explosives, Blow or shock
Rapidity of reaction: Low Explosive, Slower, deflagration, High Explosives, Faster, detonation
Results of reaction: Low Explosive, Displacement, power, High Explosives, Shattering, brisance

It must be remembered that the comparison above is general in nature. Exceptions to any one of the generalities may be found. For example, lead azide and mercury fulminate, both commonly classed as high explosives, may be, and many times in their military uses, are initiated by flame or spark. Black powder, on the other hand, is a low explosive but may be caused to detonate if ignited while confined. Normally however, high explosives and low explosives will each exhibit characteristics in line with the above chart. Variations in normal conditions, however, can be used to cause practically any desired change in the characteristics of any one substance. Upon being ignited, low explosives will burn rapidly, but yet slower than the reaction of a high explosive. Rapid burning of this nature, rapid combustion, the same as the burning of paper or wood although much faster, is termed deflagration .

Deflagration is a comparatively slow transformation consisting of a rapid combustion.

Low explosives as a result of their deflagration exhibit a characteristic known as power.

Power may be defined as the ability of an explosive to displace its surrounding medium.

As an example, smokeless powder in the chamber of a gun, when ignited, does not burst the gun, but displaces its surrounding medium, the only movable portion of which is the projectile . A charge of TNT in the chamber of a gun however would burst the gun. TNT is a high explosive, smokeless powder a low. This gives an insight into the probable uses of low and high explosives. Low explosives are most commonly used as propellants, while high explosives are most commonly used as bursting charges in various components of ammunition.

High explosives are normally initiated by blow or shock, either produced by mechanical means or by the explosion of a preceding high explosive in the explosive train. The high-explosive filler of a projectile, for example, is initiated by the detonation of a booster which precedes it. The booster is functioned by the shock of a detonator in the fuze which precedes it . The detonator in the fuze is initiated, perhaps, by a blow from a firing pin. Upon being so initiated, the high explosive undergoes a very rapid reaction termed detonation.

Detonation is a very rapid transformation, not instantaneous, but starting at a given point and traveling in all directions away from that point with a high but measurable velocity.

Black Powder is a low explosive, normally used as a propellant. I was making the distinction between a high explosive, such as TNT, Composition B, C-4, dynamite, nitroglycerin, and RDX, and a low explosive, such as black powder and smokeless powder. Those I regard more as propellants, rather than explosives. When I think explosive, I think high explosive. I apologize for the confusion.

 

[DaveChase]

...


Black Powder is a low explosive, normally used as a propellant. I was making the distinction between a high explosive, such as TNT, Composition B, C-4, dynamite, nitroglycerin, and RDX, and a low explosive, such as black powder and smokeless powder. Those I regard more as propellants, rather than explosives. When I think explosive, I think high explosive. I apologize for the confusion.

Ah, that makes sense, now. Sorry for beating the horse to a pulp about BP being an explosive then.

Dave Chase

 

[atpollard]

Black powder, on the other hand, is a low explosive but may be caused to detonate if ignited while confined.

Cool, I learned something new today.
Thanks

 

[Timerover51]

Cool, I learned something new today.
Thanks

Smokeless powder will also detonate under certain conditions of high temperature and pressure, as will occur in a magazine explosion, such as those that destroyed the British battlecruisers at Jutland, the HMS Hood during its engagement with the Bismarck, the USS Arizona, and a fair number of accidental explosions caused by deteriorating cordite.

 

[Carlobrand]

And, of course, neither the unfortunate man standing next to the powder keg nor his widow are going to care what word is used to describe the chemical process that dismembered him.:devil:

 

[Nightwind1]

An antimatter arrow :file_28:

One of my characters back in High School (1978) was killed by a thermonuclear crossbow bolt.

 

[McPerth]

I guess one of the best use of those weapons simulating old ones (swords made with bonded superdense, gauss blunderbusses, etc.) will be for Imperial agents that must go incognito to a low TL interdicted world.

The use of all this stuff (as similar armor/clothing) will give them advantage if they come into problems, without revealing they are outworlders to the people they cross with.

 

[Timerover51]

I guess one of the best use of those weapons simulating old ones (swords made with bonded superdense, gauss blunderbusses, etc.) will be for Imperial agents that must go incognito to a low TL interdicted world.

The use of all this stuff (as similar armor/clothing) will give them advantage if they come into problems, without revealing they are outworlders to the people they cross with.

They would also be handy for giving judicious assistance to a group or groups on a world without it being too overtly seen as outworld intervention.

For that matter, simply introducing the Minie Ball to a world where the smoothbore, black powder, muzzle-loading musket was the standard world would have major effects. Similar steps would be improving the production and quality of a world's black powder, how to artificially produce saltpeter, or the Rodman method for casting very large caliber smoothbore cannon.