Rules Only: Generic or Official Traveller Universe

[aramis]

Marshall was also writing about what was, essentially, a conscripted US Army (including penal service), with a very different discipline model slowly starting to phase out, the Army's various "corps" finally being truly integrated into a single service (and with a single unified rank system), a very different tactical deployment model, and a much different understanding of the expendability of troops (and not just by the officers).

Not to mention a vastly different training model, especially for IET (Initial Entry Training - aka Basic and AIT). Sure, there was Basic Training and Infantry Training, but the expectation was that most of the needed skills would be acquired in unit. Modern IET is much more science-based in training techniques, and much more about teaching skills than about instilling strict obedience (but it still is supposed to do that, too), and much more emphasis on physical fitness is present as well.

The average infantryman has considerably better physical fitness now than during the Korean conflict. He's also volunteered, and so generally has better morale. Further, he's been conditioned to carry more, for longer. And, on top of that, his IET is longer.

Plus, the infantry gear is more comfortable than it was. Modern load-bearing gear is actually rather comfortable - comfortable enough that it sells commercially new to sport/recreational hikers and hunters. The footwear and uniforms are also better suited for field use. (Having worn USAF/CAP Fatigues and US Army BDUs both in the late 1980's, the BDUs are FAR more comfortable when doing hard physical activities. In office, I'd rather have the Fatigues. I'm told the ACU and NDU is even more comfortable for field use.)

It's made a difference. Force march distances are still the same, despite more gear, fire for effect is up considerably, and firing at all in any given engagement is now over 90%, and fire during deployment is over 95% for infantry... versus a Korean era 50% and 90%. (You still wind up with a few guys who choke when real bullets start coming their way due to hostile intent.)

 

[Timerover51]

Ok, that makes sense, That wasn't the most sterling time for the US Army, and there was a lot of soul searching after the shock of what happened to it in the flight to the Pusan perimeter. Too many examples of troops throwing away helmets, rifles, anything that'd slow them down. The army that was there in 1952 was a different one to that in 1950. Additionally, that was in an era before everyone had assault rifles, so a 10c magazine in a bolt action rifle was it for most (but not all) soldiers. They carried less there than troops did in Vietnam, where they carried less than what is taken out today.

I know that the British troops committed as part of the Commonwealth Brigade still were carrying bolt-action Lee-Enfields, however, all US troops were carrying either the semi-automatic M1 rifle with 8-round clip or the M1/M2 Carbine with either 15-round or 30-round clips. The M2 was capable of full automatic fire. The carbine was not a well-liked weapon by US troops for various reasons.

As for the status of the US Army units initially committed to combat in Korea, the following is taken from the first volume of the US Army history of the Korean War, all of which volumes may be downloaded from the following website, all volumes being in the public domain.

http://www.history.army.mil/html/bookshelves/collect/usakw.html

Eighth Army, the main combat force of FEC, stood at about 93 percent of its authorized strength on 25 June 1950. Each division had an authorized strength of 12,500 men as compared to its authorized war strength of 18,900 and none of the divisions was even up to its peacetime authorization. Each division was short of its war strength by nearly 7,000 men, 1,500 rifles, and 100 90-mm. antitank guns; 3 rifle battalions, 6 heavy tank companies, 3 105-mm. field artillery batteries, and 3 antiaircraft artillery batteries were missing from each division. In terms of battle potential, the infantry divisions could lay down only 62 percent of their infantry firepower, 69 percent of their antiaircraft artillery firepower, and 14 percent of their tank firepower.

Until 1949 the primary responsibility of military units in the Far East Command was to carry out occupation duties. Engaged in these administrative and housekeeping tasks throughout Japan and the outlying areas, units had little time or inclination for combat training. The situation was aggravated by constant understrength and excessive turnover of personnel. This turnover amounted to 43 percent annually in the FEC.

The readiness of combat units within the FEC was not enhanced by the quality of enlisted personnel assigned from the zone of the interior. Replacements arriving from the United States during 1949, for instance, were said by General MacArthur's headquarters to have had a very high percentage of low intelligence ratings and a much larger than usual number of men of questionable character. . . . . . In April 1949, 43 percent of Army enlisted personnel in the Far East Command rated in Class IV and V on the Army General Classification Test.

At a platoon level fire and movement wouldn't go on for too long - it's hard to carry enough ammo for a few hours of firefight unless the troops are quite experienced and their fire discipline is high. Just six 30c mags of 5.56 in one's webbing, plus water and some food and other essentials, easily comes to 20kg, and that's the webbing done. Then there's the pack, where they'd be carrying extra belt ammo for the gunner, rockets, mines, more food and water, bedding, dry clothes, etc. Refer to Mike's comment above.

For a complete copy of the Marshall study, go to the following website.

http://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p4013coll11/id/1350/rec/8

 

[Blue Ghost]

So your game sessions tend to be like "Outland", or otherwise a space environment, but without combat among vehicles, just the fire team kind of stuff. Is that right?

 

[Timerover51]

So your game sessions tend to be like "Outland", or otherwise a space environment, but without combat among vehicles, just the fire team kind of stuff. Is that right?

So far, that is correct. I have a wide range of miniature rules for vehicle combat as well, to include GDW TacForce. It would depend entirely on the situation, but I do not see large-scale vehicle combat in a role-playing game. If a group wanted to have a futuristic mechanized war, that is no longer role-playing in my view, but miniature war gaming, a totally different level. Also, if you are going to run larger-scale combat, then either you have to find another group willing to be the opponents, or the GM has to handle that. That is not the GM role, to be actively opposing the players.

I should also note, that I am still working on the basics of my Traveller Universe, which is still evolving.

 

[Jason M Durkish]

I like to have my own universe .
Which I am making right now .
And this site has given me a lot of ideas .

 

[kilemall]

Started out doing the OTU like everyone else, but very quickly we started making up our own stuff.

Now, just so sick of the whole thing, 1000s of years of weight pressing down, so I've chucked it all and gone early Terran.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[Meeko100]

I like the OTU, but I dial the common tech way down TL11/12/13 is what is common everyday even in the high-tech marvels of some core worlds. The KISS principle comes to mind.

But the possible tech is very high to, but I reserve that for use by very special elements. And even then, they still are a rare technical marvel with specialized technicians keeping them running and specialized training needed to operate them. Possibly surgery to interface the high-tech gizmos may be needed, etc.


I also rip out the Nobility system largely. Keep the Emperor, everything down is some democratically elected official. Same structure really.

 

[mike wightman]

Traveller has never really shown what life at TL15 is like.

The Spinward Marches based adventures are usually set on low TL worlds to avoid actually having to detail the high TL wonders.

They even took the cop out that Darrian isn't really TL16 rather than detail TL16 technology.

 

[aramis]

Traveller has never really shown what life at TL15 is like.

The Spinward Marches based adventures are usually set on low TL worlds to avoid actually having to detail the high TL wonders.

They even took the cop out that Darrian isn't really TL16 rather than detail TL16 technology.

Traveller's Digest did a good bit of work on showing the High Tech life...

 

[Keklas Rekobah]

Seems to me that the High Tech Life would be borderline Star Trek stuff - you know ... pocket doors that go “Whoosh”, holodecks, and engine rooms that look like disco dance floors.

 

[Enoki]

I haven't really said anything about this directly, but since there's a thread asking...

I really prefer a Traveller universe that is mostly canon / generic as much as the technical and game setting goes. But, I also think that pushing a by-the-rules, canon, universe is bland and unimaginative.
My view is that players, interested parties, and people involved in Traveller should all be taken as contributing to said universe on an equal plane with one caveat:

That their contributions follow previous precedent and the technical, scientific, and engineering spirit of the rules. This means a "anything goes" view won't work. There has to be a reasonable scientific basis for things. The jump system for ships is enforced for the most part (unless you want to go to much higher TL and get into PFM).

Quite frankly, if that doesn't happen, then this setting is going to die with the "inner circle" of those that produce canon rules and settings. The maximum latitude needs to be the norm, not a constricted one.

Well, that's my $.02 on this. More is better. Giving players, referees, and others latitude to add to the game in meaningful ways... and with the advent of the Internet that means through mechanisms like the map sites, Travellerwiki, and fan sites like Freelance Traveller, every effort should be made to make these inclusive within the official game.

That way those who play and contribute can get the maximum satisfaction out of their participation. My $.02 anyway.

 

[aramis]

Seems to me that the High Tech Life would be borderline Star Trek stuff - you know ... pocket doors that go “Whoosh”, holodecks, and engine rooms that look like disco dance floors.

Holodecks are TL12... but get tractor-force-feedback about TL13. (MT RM & SSOM)

One of the TD's notes that Capital is mostly parks, with flying cities (and a few on the ground) as of somewhere between 1107 and 1115.

We don't get told of the flying cities in the TL13 as of 334 in Agent of the Imperium, so we can expect the cities probably post-date that era; I'd posit they probably post-Civil War... because they'd likely have been shot down during the Barracks Emperors period if they predated it.

Most of the people we see are either military or bureaucrats.
We don't see a "Laborer" in CT, MT, nor TNE... but absence of evidence isn't evidence of Absence, so we cannot rule out laborers.

Book 8 tells us TL's 13+ have lots of robots... and they're capable of pseudo-emotive response.

Agent and T5 give us Makers. Makers combine additive (3d printing) and subtractive (automated machining) manufacturing; one would assume that they could also have moulding/casting in the larger industrial units, with casting "sand" for a lost wax process, using 3D-printed "wax."

Note that the Makers concept doesn't originate with Marc... we see it in Warhammer 40K: Rogue Trader. Which, coincidentally, was announced right as Marc cancelled their Traveller License. (40K RT felt very much like a Variant of the OTU at the time - my view of it then wasn't quite that dark, but it resonated with both A1 and A4 - both of which were written by GW. At the least, it's cross-fertilization.)

Joe and Gary's (aka DGP) presented concepts of High Tech still have people making the decisions, but with much more automation.

Essentially, I see Traveller's High-Tech as having basically put people out of the manufacturing side of all of it. Humans design, use, buy and sell, but machines make and machines provide force multiplication.

There is apparently a resistance to armed robots in the 3I; the Zhodani use warbots and are described as perfidious...

The 3I appears to have a serious "out of sight" approach to robots in general, tho', as they're rare on the encounter tables.

 

[whulorigan]

We don't get told of the flying cities in the TL13 as of 334 in Agent of the Imperium, so we can expect the cities probably post-date that era; I'd posit they probably post-Civil War... because they'd likely have been shot down during the Barracks Emperors period if they predated it.

Recall though that the Palace of Martin II was a flying structure, and was shot down during the Barracks Emperor's/Civil War period. That is why Arbellatra eventually built the "current" (as of 1105) palace. So there is at least some gravitic construction, although probably on a much more modest and limited scale than TL15.

 

[mike wightman]

Traveller's Digest did a good bit of work on showing the High Tech life...

I have every issue of Digest and MTJ = I am not seeing details about life and cultural differences at TL13+, let alone TL15.
My main criticism of the DGP adventure series is as they travel towards the Imperial core they fail to actually detail the differences we already know about from earlier canon - jump 6 x-boats, drop tank equipped merchantmen, the desperate living conditions of poor people on high tech high pop worlds etc.

Where is the wonder...

I can find inspiration on movies, comics, books, other sci-fi role playing games for what life at TL13+ may be like. The cultural differences between our TL7.8 world view and a TL9 pre-jump culture that can move freely around its system and exploit all of its resources thanks to the m-drive, gravitics and the fusion power plant would be very different. A TL9 culture that fails to develop jump is still capable of launching STL ships to colonise nearby systems, and advance to a KII.

Jump drive means that colonising distant systems becomes easier, and with total control of energy requirements and gravitics building space based, planetoid or planet based settlements is not exactly a great achievement.

Higher jump numbers bring faster travel to further away worlds which makes pocket empires possible, advances in fusion technology, maker technology, damper technology revolutionise manufacturing capability yet further.

While I can see the (original) Spinward Marches being a bit Firefly like the Imperial core worlds would be vastly more advanced and high tech, with cultural differences that should be evident.

 

[mike wightman]

Holodecks are TL12... but get tractor-force-feedback about TL13. (MT RM & SSOM)

<snip>

The 3I appears to have a serious "out of sight" approach to robots in general, tho', as they're rare on the encounter tables.

See, this is the sort of thing that should be even more developed for core sector worlds

 

[Keklas Rekobah]

So then would the "High Tech Life" involve something like the incipient decadence and subsequent revolution of the Darrian culture? TL-16 conveniences might make life so bland that "Palace Intrigue" might become the primary source of entertainment -- remember the courts of Louis XVI ... they had all the best that gold could buy, yet they eventually lost their heads over it.

 

[Condottiere]

Expand or die.

Darrians seem all over the place; I suppose you could make them Melniboneans.

 

[The Pakkrat]

The Coreward Frontier

I chose OTU, but as anyone can see, I've chosen a region of Charted Space where humans fear to tread and thus can feel part of the OTU and yet have the space and freedom to develop what I like and see if it sticks long enough to become accepted, third-party source canon.

Coreward from Charted Space seems recently as Agent of the Imperium where the story seems to be moving. From psychic Flashdance, to Beauniture, dogs on the edge, allergic reactions to fur (Gashikans sounds like a sneeze to me), and blind power Psions; the Coreward frontier has it all.

Excuse me, I've a TL-18 world to survey.

 

[Blue Ghost]

*snippage*

Note that the Makers concept doesn't originate with Marc... we see it in Warhammer 40K: Rogue Trader. Which, coincidentally, was announced right as Marc cancelled their Traveller License. (40K RT felt very much like a Variant of the OTU at the time - my view of it then wasn't quite that dark, but it resonated with both A1 and A4 - both of which were written by GW. At the least, it's cross-fertilization.)

I've never heard of Rogue Trader. Was that a 90s product? I had put Traveller down then for professional and other real life reasons.

 

[aramis]

I've never heard of Rogue Trader. Was that a 90s product? I had put Traveller down then for professional and other real life reasons.

It was the first edition of WH40K. Which was Games Workshop's first major product announced right as Marc withdrew their Traveller license.