Rules Only: Generic or Official Traveller Universe

[Blue Ghost]

I always thought that the laser pistol in CT (mission on Mithril?) was a fairly inadequate item as described. Why would you carry a beam weapon that should be able to fit in your pocket or shoulder holster, but required it to be wired to a huge backpack power supply? One of my rulings was there were were 10-shot power mags available for the thing. Either fit like a regular pistol mag, or wired from a shirt or coat pocket.

 

[Jame]

I always thought that the laser pistol in CT (mission on Mithril?) was a fairly inadequate item as described. Why would you carry a beam weapon that should be able to fit in your pocket or shoulder holster, but required it to be wired to a huge backpack power supply? One of my rulings was there were were 10-shot power mags available for the thing. Either fit like a regular pistol mag, or wired from a shirt or coat pocket.

I think this will be adopted as my explanation for them, though I will increase the amount of shots by TL.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I think this will be adopted as my explanation for them, though I will increase the amount of shots by TL.

Glad to oblige.

I just had a hard time picturing someone walking around with a huge backpack to power a "bod pistol" sized weapon. I mean, I could see a prototype at a lower tech level being rigged up, and maybe some researchers trying it out, or asking an army grunt to use the thing for a few months. But to deploy it as a working model?

Can you imagine walking around some Sword Worlds' starport, being stopped by a couple of security types with holstered weapons with power cables leading to backpack power packs? Can you imagine going on safari, or a rescue op, or some mission where you actually wanted to use that configuration?

It's just the way I think.

 

[Timerover51]

Glad to oblige.

I just had a hard time picturing someone walking around with a huge backpack to power a "bod pistol" sized weapon. I mean, I could see a prototype at a lower tech level being rigged up, and maybe some researchers trying it out, or asking an army grunt to use the thing for a few months. But to deploy it as a working model?

Can you imagine walking around some Sword Worlds' starport, being stopped by a couple of security types with holstered weapons with power cables leading to backpack power packs? Can you imagine going on safari, or a rescue op, or some mission where you actually wanted to use that configuration?

It's just the way I think.

I definitely agree with you. Plus, if you are carrying that power pack on your back, where are you carrying the rest of your stuff if you are in a combat situation?

Edit Note: That is one reason why I have no laser weapons in my Traveller Universe. Actually, no man-portable energy weapons at all. If I could figure out a way of getting Andre Norton's "sleep rods" to work, I would happily use those.

 

[Blue Ghost]

That's interesting. How did you decide on no energy weapons?

 

[rancke]

I definitely agree with you. Plus, if you are carrying that power pack on your back, where are you carrying the rest of your stuff if you are in a combat situation?

I've always thought that those laser batteries were belt mounted. Upon checking the MT equipment sheets I see that they do indeed show backpack mounted batteries. But why is that necessary? The weight of those batteries are from two to four kilograms. If that's backpack sized, those batteries can be used as flotation devices -- not at all the density I imagine any kind of battery would have.

I'm going to stick to belt mounted batteries IMTU.


Hans

 

[Timerover51]

That's interesting. How did you decide on no energy weapons?

Not a fan of the energy storage requirements, and then atmospheric attenuation. I go with S.L.A. Marshall's restriction of a maximum of 40 pounds for a soldier to function effectively in combat. For the plasma guns, I worked up the recoil once and decided that they made excellent rockets to launch their firers violently backward, and the fusion guns, there is the problem of radiation from the gun. So, no man-portable stuff. Not much long-range space weaponry either, for different reasons.

Actually, not really a fan of space combat in general, either.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Did you do mostly classic non-raygun science fiction kind of stuff?

 

[Ulsyus]

Not a fan of the energy storage requirements, and then atmospheric attenuation. I go with S.L.A. Marshall's restriction of a maximum of 40 pounds for a soldier to function effectively in combat.

How do you describe function effectively in combat?

Actually, not really a fan of space combat in general, either.

While I know that we don't have to run anything in space to place a sci fi game, do you find this limiting when playing Traveller, or do your players just journey as passengers from system to system?

 

[Blue Ghost]

Well, it's always been a private concern of mine that the tech wasn't fully explained for energy weapons, but, it is science fiction after all. You either accept the handwave, or you do without.

I am curious though, no starship combat and no energy weapons. I'm curious what your gaming sessions were like.

 

[Timerover51]

Well, it's always been a private concern of mine that the tech wasn't fully explained for energy weapons, but, it is science fiction after all. You either accept the handwave, or you do without.

It depends if I am writing a story or running a game. I tend to run more of a simulation than a game, where I like to have hard explanations for what happens. Projectile weapons I know a lot about and have large amounts of hard data on. So, go with the equivalent of Piper's Space Viking for hand weaponry. If I were writing something on the order of Andre Norton sci-fi, I would likely go with some energy weapons. That fits the milieu.

I am curious though, no starship combat and no energy weapons. I'm curious what your gaming sessions were like.

The guys liked a combination of Belt Strike with the strike system in JTAS 3 for asteroid mining. That works pretty well, and they came so close to that big strike that they kept trying. Never rolled any attempted claim-jumping, and nobody died, although that was close a couple of times.

Then they went trading along the Spinward Main, and I was trying to get them to either Research Station Gamma or Twilight's Peak, and in that they would have some energy weapons, maybe. I went with the rule for their Free Trader that the route was sufficiently well patrolled to keep piracy to a minimum, and mainly going after high value cargoes. So never had any space shoot-outs, where I would have gone with the rules, but then, I was using the GDW adventures. They never caught on to either adventure, but did have a lot of fun making and then loosing money. They did do some hunting as well, but never really got into any shoot outs on the ground. They were not that type of guys.

After working with that, I have since been working up my own Traveller universe, where the rules covering man-portable energy weapons hold, while the space combat rules I am working up make it short and deadly, with energy weapons used mainly in self-defense against missile fire. Again, more like Piper than anything else. I figure this is a role-playing game, if someone wants to fight large-scale space battles, I will break out my copy of Imperium and have at it.

Now, if I had a group that really, really wanted energy weapons, I would have to do some thinking.

 

[Timerover51]

How do you describe function effectively in combat?

I tend to go with Marshall's requirement of being able to engage in 3 to 4 hours of sustained combat before exhaustion sets in after marching roughly a mile to a mile and a half over somewhat rough terrain. Up to 3 miles if over fairly level terrain. That does assume you are not in a vehicle. That sets a limit of between 25 and 40 pounds of equipment for the average soldier. If all you are doing is riding in vehicles, then physical exertion is not a factor, nor is weight of equipment carried.

While I know that we don't have to run anything in space to place a sci fi game, do you find this limiting when playing Traveller, or do your players just journey as passengers from system to system?

They operated with a Seeker in an asteroid belt, trying for that big strike. Then switched to a operating a Free Trader along the Spinward Main. So, no, they were not just passengers, and as I was trying to get them into either Research Station Gamma or Twilight's Peak, I would have used the Traveller space combat rules. Not sure if I would have tried to use Mayday.

 

[Ulsyus]

I tend to go with Marshall's requirement of being able to engage in 3 to 4 hours of sustained combat before exhaustion sets in after marching roughly a mile to a mile and a half over somewhat rough terrain. Up to 3 miles if over fairly level terrain. That does assume you are not in a vehicle. That sets a limit of between 25 and 40 pounds of equipment for the average soldier. If all you are doing is riding in vehicles, then physical exertion is not a factor, nor is weight of equipment carried.

I don't know anything about the guy you're quoting: what era was he from and when was he in that business?

Do you have anything from troops in action in, say, Afghanistan? From a range of nationalities? What does sustained combat consist of: do you mean fire -and-movement style breaththrough close quarters battle in the field at platoon and section/squad level, or just general engagements at batallion/battlegroup level?

 

[mike wightman]

Royal Marines and Paras carried a hell of a lot more across the Falklands and fought a battle at the end of it.

 

[Timerover51]

I don't know anything about the guy you're quoting: what era was he from and when was he in that business?

Do you have anything from troops in action in, say, Afghanistan? From a range of nationalities? What does sustained combat consist of: do you mean fire -and-movement style breaththrough close quarters battle in the field at platoon and section/squad level, or just general engagements at batallion/battlegroup level?

I will post some material from Marshall's work, with the permission of the moderators, as it was a US Army study that he did during the Korean War. For more about Marshall, search Wikipedia under Brigadier General S. L. A. Marshall. The article is not that bad, although it does have its problems. And yes, I am talking fire and movement style combat at the individual, squad, and platoon level.

 

[rancke]

Royal Marines and Paras carried a hell of a lot more across the Falklands and fought a battle at the end of it.

Roman legionaries carried between 30 and 45 kg.


Hans

 

[aramis]

I will post some material from Marshall's work, with the permission of the moderators, as it was a US Army study that he did during the Korean War. For more about Marshall, search Wikipedia under Brigadier General S. L. A. Marshall. The article is not that bad, although it does have its problems. And yes, I am talking fire and movement style combat at the individual, squad, and platoon level.

Studies done on the US Gov't dime are public domain, as I understand the current copyright regulations. So, yes.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I've seen footage of NATO troops hefting massive packs. Especially the engineers with anti-armor kit. Massive Dragon "hand held" anti-tank missiles. And that's in addition to the regular weapon, ammo and rest of the kit.

 

[Ulsyus]

Royal Marines and Paras carried a hell of a lot more across the Falklands and fought a battle at the end of it.

Absolutely, though when it came to the fight they'd drop their march-order packs and just fight with webbing

I will post some material from Marshall's work, with the permission of the moderators, as it was a US Army study that he did during the Korean War. For more about Marshall, search Wikipedia under Brigadier General S. L. A. Marshall. The article is not that bad, although it does have its problems. And yes, I am talking fire and movement style combat at the individual, squad, and platoon level.

Ok, that makes sense, That wasn't the most sterling time for the US Army, and there was a lot of soul searching after the shock of what happened to it in the flight to the Pusan perimeter. Too many examples of troops throwing away helmets, rifles, anything that'd slow them down. The army that was there in 1952 was a different one to that in 1950. Additionally, that was in an era before everyone had assault rifles, so a 10c magazine in a bolt action rifle was it for most (but not all) soldiers. They carried less there than troops did in Vietnam, where they carried less than what is taken out today.

At a platoon level fire and movement wouldn't go on for too long - it's hard to carry enough ammo for a few hours of firefight unless the troops are quite experienced and their fire discipline is high. Just six 30c mags of 5.56 in one's webbing, plus water and some food and other essentials, easily comes to 20kg, and that's the webbing done. Then there's the pack, where they'd be carrying extra belt ammo for the gunner, rockets, mines, more food and water, bedding, dry clothes, etc. Refer to Mike's comment above.

I've seen footage of NATO troops hefting massive packs. Especially the engineers with anti-armor kit. Massive Dragon "hand held" anti-tank missiles. And that's in addition to the regular weapon, ammo and rest of the kit.

This is part of that march-order kit that Mike was referring to. Most of the time it's put onto a truck, or on the outside of a PMV or APC or MICV or other type of acronym. Still have to train to haul it by foot though, for those times when the AT threat is toooo high, or a lengthy quite move is of more value than a fast noisy one. Afghanistan's a great example of that.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I'm a little confused though. There isn't a whole lot of enemy armor in Afghanistan, or are you referring to a possibility that some Imperial soldier might face?