High Guard 1.5 (<1979 edition)

[robject]

I am going to take this paragraph of HG1 on p18 to heart:

DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION
The ship design and construction system given in Book 2 must be considered to be a standard system for providing small craft using off the shelf components. It is not superseded by the system given in this book; instead, this book presents a system for construction of very large vessels, and includes provisions for use of the system with small craft.

Given the reality of both systems, I think the priority for High Guard is clear:

• HG is for BCS design and operations.

Secondary effects allow creation of small ships and integration of small ships in BCS combat, but Book 2 is considered the standard and primary resource ("not superseded").

I note that HG2 rewords that paragraph slightly but doesn't change any emphasis.

I also note that HG2 became the system for most starship designs anyway, yet Book 2 was used throughout the Classic Traveller period.

 

[robject]

Here's the official position of HG on Lasers and Energy Weapons.

Lasers are the primary armament of small ships, assuming a defensive anti-missile role in larger ships.

Like lasers, energy weapons are primarily used on small ships, assuming the anti-missile role on larger ships.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Here's the official position of HG on Lasers and Energy Weapons.

The advantage of energy based weapons (as opposed to kinetic, like missiles) is the "deep magazine" capacity. So long as the power plant is supplying power, the weapon can keep shooting. You don't need to worry about reloading the weapon from a magazine.

And then HG simplified the "magazine problem" out of existence except for planetary bombardment (and even that fell out of favor soon enough, since almost no one does it).

Bookkeeping duties are so much easier when you throw the book in the trash and leave the room ...

 

[whulorigan]

The advantage of energy based weapons (as opposed to kinetic, like missiles) is the "deep magazine" capacity. So long as the power plant is supplying power, the weapon can keep shooting. You don't need to worry about reloading the weapon from a magazine.

And then HG simplified the "magazine problem" out of existence except for planetary bombardment (and even that fell out of favor soon enough, since almost no one does it).

Bookkeeping duties are so much easier when you throw the book in the trash and leave the room ...

But here is the unanswered question for Energy Weapons (except in TNE, IIRC):

• Energy Weapon is a misleading term for a weapon that is essentially a "Plasma Weapon" (either Fusing or non-Fusing). Where is the plasma coming from that gets super-heated? Is it siphoned from the fuel tanks? Does the turret contain a magazine with cartridges, etc.?

 

[robject]

^ Magic.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Where is the plasma coming from that gets super-heated? Is it siphoned from the fuel tanks? Does the turret contain a magazine with cartridges, etc.?

My assumptions are ...

1. The fusion power plant is fueled using hydrogen ... so ... use the resource you can already be assumed to have ...
2. It would make sense to use a "weaponized" version of a power plant to direct fire offensively ... so derivative technology ...
3. Presumably there is enough "plasma storage capacity" as part of the turret tonnage to "buffer" the draw from the fuel tanks.

The thing is that the "fuel consumption" involved is so miniscule compared to A TON OF LIQUID HYDROGEN that it is effectively negligible for our purposes as starship designers.

Or you can think of it as being like this:

A LBB5.80 Plasma Gun requires 1 EP to power the weapon.
What if the "actual" consumption is 0.9999 EP of electrical power and 0.0001 EP worth of hydrogen fuel consumption for that combat? Note that 0.0001 EP "worth" of hydrogen fuel (at 14,000 liters per ton) equates to 1.4 liters of hydrogen fuel (which is why I picked that seemingly arbitrary number).

Point being that at that point, for design bookeeping purposes, you might as well realize that there isn't a whole lot of point in exactly recording and tracking those numbers in that format ... so you just call it "1 EP" and call it done (and move on). This doesn't become a downstream problem because if the fuel tanks are empty, the (fusion) power plant shuts down (for lack of fuel) so you can't power the energy based weapons (lasers, plasma/fusion guns, particle accelerators, etc.) anyway ... so just call it 1 or 2 (or 5) EP per energy based weapon installed into a turret and KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid).

 

[robject]

Though HG2 spines aren't the same as HG1 spines, I'm thinking of simply using a truncated spine table sort of like this. Tell me what you'd change.

Selected Major Weapons
Particle Accelerator                Meson Gun
Code Tonnage     TL            Code Tonnage     TL
A    5500        8             A    5000        11
B    5000        9             B    8000        11
J    5000        10            E    1000        13
K    4500        11            K    8000        12
Q    4500        12            N    2000        15
R    4000        13            P    8000        13
S    3500        14            S    8000        14
T    3000        15            T    7000        15

 

[Spinward Flow]

Tell me what you'd change.

Particle Accelerator                         Meson Gun
USP              Tech    Cost    Energy      USP              Tech    Cost    Energy
Code   Tonnage   Level   (MCr)   Points      Code   Tonnage   Level   (MCr)   Points
   A    5500      8      3500     500           A    5000      11     10000    500
   B    5000      9      3000     500           B    8000      11     12000    600
   C    4500      10     2400     500           C    2000      12      3000    600
   D    4000      11     1500     600           D    5000      12      5000    700
   E    3500      12     1200     600           E    1000      13       800    700
   F    3000      13     1200     600           F    2000      13      1000    800
   G    2500      14      800     700           G    1000      14       400    800
   H    2500      15      500     700           H    2000      14       600    900
   J    5000      10     3000     800           J    1000      15       400    900
   K    4500      11     2000     800           K    8000      12     10000   1000
   L    4000      12     1600     800           L    5000      13      3000   1000
   M    3500      13     1200     900           M    4000      14       800   1000
   N    3000      14     1000     900           N    2000      15       600   1000
   P    2500      15      800     900

If that looks familiar to you, it's because it's LBB5.80 p24 truncated.

Note that if spinals "top out" at Code: P/N, those codes correspond to 50,000 and 40,000 tons respectively ... as opposed to 300,000 tons for code: T ... and if you alter the Automatic Critical Hits rule such that ONLY if the weapon code exceeds the hull size code, suddenly the (gigantic) dreadnaught class ships have a reason to exist(!) since the sheer bulk of the hull is less prone to damage (can soak the hits!).

 

[whartung]

Secondary effects allow creation of small ships and integration of small ships in BCS combat, but Book 2 is considered the standard and primary resource ("not superseded").

As a publisher, that was necessary since book 5 was optional. But, beyond that, it's really a "bad idea". Having ships with "different rules" is, simply, a "bad idea".

But, since this is a RPG, vs a tactical gaming simulation, that's mostly irrelevant.

In hindsight they should not have published starship building rules. They should have simply published starships. I don't think Star Wars has a ship design system, for example.

Far to much time is spent dance around the corner cases of houses in space. If someone designed a building for an adventure, they'd sketch out a floor plan in 10 minutes, label one room "The Lab", place some guards, and be done with it. Nobody cares about the difference in drywall price on a TL-7 world and TL-15 world, or how much more efficient the air conditioning is as TL advances beyond swamp coolers. At best they want to know that armor value of the wall so they can decide whether to place the satchel charge on the vault door, or the wall next to it.

 

[robject]

My first concern is "but everyone uses the T spine"... but...

... if you alter the Automatic Critical Hits rule such that ONLY if the weapon code exceeds the hull size code, suddenly the (gigantic) dreadnaught class ships have a reason to exist(!) since the sheer bulk of the hull is less ⌧e to damage (can soak the hits!).

I... like that. Thank you.

 

[mike wightman]

A small medium and large spinal for each TL is how I would do it as a minimum.

 

[kilemall]

I am going to take this paragraph of HG1 on p18 to heart:



Given the reality of both systems, I think the priority for High Guard is clear:

• HG is for BCS design and operations.

Secondary effects allow creation of small ships and integration of small ships in BCS combat, but Book 2 is considered the standard and primary resource ("not superseded").

I note that HG2 rewords that paragraph slightly but doesn't change any emphasis.

I also note that HG2 became the system for most starship designs anyway, yet Book 2 was used throughout the Classic Traveller period.

The way I dealt with it is HG ships require shipyards/starports of the TL they were made or higher.

LBB2 ships are standardized plug compatible drop ins likely made by distant IND worlds with parts at every A/B port.

 

[robject]

A small medium and large spinal for each TL is how I would do it as a minimum.

I worry about the HG2 breakpoints, which result in spines not being used.

 

[Grav_Moped]

I worry about the HG2 breakpoints, which result in spines not being used.

Have them overlap. For firepower and cost, a TL-11 large is identical to the TL-12 medium and the TL-13 small spinal. Tonnage gets complicated but have it based on the TL-n medium item.

So, a factor K spinal is Large (whatever that means in tons) at TL-10, Medium at TL-11, and Small at TL-12.
Then a L spinal is Large at TL-11, Medium at TL-12, and Small at TL-13.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

A small medium and large spinal for each TL is how I would do it as a minimum.

Agreed.

I worry about the HG2 breakpoints, which result in spines not being used.

The table is already there, why bother curating it?

 

[robject]

Yah, I'll just keep the list for the sake of HG79.

A: "So we have this large table full of all these spines..."

B: "Yes, it's because we support a Rich Decision-Making Environment."

A: "Yeah okay, except in practice, everybody only uses these six spines here, and those three spines there."

B: "RICH DECISION-MAKING ENVIRONMENT!!"

A: "Wot, you going to do your Tevye impersonation now?"

B: "TRADITION!!!" (fingers waving in the air)

A: "Nice beard!"

B: "Thanks!"

 

[whartung]

Note that if spinals "top out" at Code: P/N, those codes correspond to 50,000 and 40,000 tons respectively ... as opposed to 300,000 tons for code: T ... and if you alter the Automatic Critical Hits rule such that ONLY if the weapon code exceeds the hull size code, suddenly the (gigantic) dreadnaught class ships have a reason to exist(!) since the sheer bulk of the hull is less ⌧e to damage (can soak the hits!).

The key point to this is that you need to be able to kill a ship without critical hits.

And by "kill" I mean, indeed, "kill" vs "scrape off the turrets and weapons" or "fry the crew". I mean the ship needs to be dead in space and not worth salvaging.

So, try out your combat without criticals and see what happens.

 

[kilemall]

The key point to this is that you need to be able to kill a ship without critical hits.

And by "kill" I mean, indeed, "kill" vs "scrape off the turrets and weapons" or "fry the crew". I mean the ship needs to be dead in space and not worth salvaging.

So, try out your combat without criticals and see what happens.

In my mutant HG, I ended up using the Hull hit from CT to mean more then what CT had (pros wear vacc suits and depressurize before battle) or what I gather MgT is (outer skin abrades off to expose skeletal structure for hits).

It’s the ship’s tonnage as integrity, and when gone the ship is now a debris field.

It’s the missing secret sauce to resolving little ships blow apart with bay weapons vs spinal weapons similarly wreck 30000 ton ships and gouge out chunks but do not kill 300000 ton ones.

 

[whartung]

It’s the missing secret sauce to resolving little ships blow apart with bay weapons vs spinal weapons similarly wreck 30000 ton ships and gouge out chunks but do not kill 300000 ton ones.

Right?

Given the early Striker definition of a meson blast (everything in X radius is considered destroyed, ground is considered as rubble (or something)), you just envision large spheres of debris forming within starships hit by these things.

 

[mike wightman]

Which is why configuration is a defence of sorts against meson blasts.