GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
It being the Marches, with all that implies, extra-Imperial activities are not a surprise.
How is the IISS organised in the Spinward Marches?
- Thread starter BackworldTraveller
- Start date
Those tonnages look like they were using a small-ship universe paradigm, with a minimal or even token Imperial presence out at the fringes. That's not the OTU after High Guard came out...
I'd scale the ships and detachment sizes up for the OTU as currently understood. Given the stated scope of the XBoat network alone, two sites with maybe 4KTd of ships each in a frontier sector isn't even a rounding error in the IISS budget for the Marches.
I don't think they had a good sense of scale. Yes, it's a huge volume of space at J-2 or even J-3. It's also a huge tax and industrial base, and it wasn't really until Striker and Trillion Credit Squadron came out (flawed as their economics models were) that the latter was really visible to the Traveller community.
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BackworldTraveller
SOC-13
Looked at the 5th Frontier War Counter Mix. Jewell, Regina, Aramis, Vilis, Lanth and Rhylanor between them muster 8 squadrons of scouts.
5 are 0-3-4 J2 squadrons: 63, 18, 322, 96 and 54
1 is 0-8-8 J2: 53
1 is 0-8-4 J3: 497
1 is 0-5-6 J4: 321
Assuming none of these are Courier branch (all retained for message services), and the J4's are Exploration, which would the others be?
5 are 0-3-4 J2 squadrons: 63, 18, 322, 96 and 54
1 is 0-8-8 J2: 53
1 is 0-8-4 J3: 497
1 is 0-5-6 J4: 321
Assuming none of these are Courier branch (all retained for message services), and the J4's are Exploration, which would the others be?
What naval squadrons approach those values? Then we can extrapolate what ships comprise these squadrons.
BackworldTraveller
SOC-13
Little Naval reflect these values at all. Cruisers typically have bombardment factors of 2 or 4. Even Battleships Bombardment factors are exceeded by some of these. None have spinal mounts (hence no beam factor).
As I recall the third value is defenses/screens, right? How do those compare?
BackworldTraveller
SOC-13
The values beat the battleships and cruisers at the upper levels! I have also seen this described as the number of hulls too. (sorry can't recall the citation for that) That might explain things - though the rules do say it's Defence Factor so it could be a mix of things
Somewhere on here there is an excellent thread on reverse-engineering FFW counters. The Oz had a pretty nifty method that I've used. Unfortunately all of my links are now broken and I can't pull these posts up through search. I remember a specific discussion about the scout unit numbers and why the bombardment numbers were so high.
BackworldTraveller
SOC-13
The specific ships are interesting, but the units in which they are organised are one of the few clues as to how the IISS organises (The putative topic of this thread). Squadron numbers don't match fleet numbers, so they are clearly not IN designations by fleet. But what are they? Squadron 53 and 54 are completely different types of organisation. Are the sequential numbers just luck? Why are the numbers so low? Are they a result of an early survey effort before the service had grown to it's current size or was there some logical re-numbering under Arbellatra that time has disordered?
Why so few squadrons? There are 9 subsectors in Fifth Frontier War.
Why so few squadrons? There are 9 subsectors in Fifth Frontier War.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Was it this thread about counter values?
www.travellerrpg.com
Abstract combat thoughts
Just something to play around with. Battleships and tanks have long had to balance three factors - offensive punch, defence(armour+screens+point defence), and mobility(agility). Let's start with a TL9 and factors of 3-3-3. You can lower one factor to increase one of the other two. For each...
www.travellerrpg.com
BackworldTraveller
SOC-13
Seem like it - Though some of the links have gone
I don't think so but it was of similar vintage. I recall a lot of back-and-forth about what the FFW factors stood for, and the Scout counters in particular were curious because of they high bombardment and defense numbers. I think one idea was the Scout units represented lots of small ships making mass driver weapons.Was it this thread about counter values?
Abstract combat thoughts
Just something to play around with. Battleships and tanks have long had to balance three factors - offensive punch, defence(armour+screens+point defence), and mobility(agility). Let's start with a TL9 and factors of 3-3-3. You can lower one factor to increase one of the other two. For each...
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I think it was The Oz who was trying to link HG and FFW counter values.
From what I remember attack factor was based on spinal and number of hulls in the squadron, bombardment was derived from missile bays and fighter/escort numbers. Since a lot of type S scouts could be considered as 'fighters' - capable of bombardment due to atmospheric capability and missile launchers.
Defence was due to number of hulls, armour, and screens.
I may have a copy of it somewhere, but The Oz is the one to ask.
From what I remember attack factor was based on spinal and number of hulls in the squadron, bombardment was derived from missile bays and fighter/escort numbers. Since a lot of type S scouts could be considered as 'fighters' - capable of bombardment due to atmospheric capability and missile launchers.
Defence was due to number of hulls, armour, and screens.
I may have a copy of it somewhere, but The Oz is the one to ask.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Seems odd that the Scouts would mass their assets into combat squadrons, since their specialty would be reconnaissance, and maybe behind the front strikes.
With even refurbished cruisers, the cannon fodder aspect would be something you'd pass on to the colonial and subsector reserve.
With even refurbished cruisers, the cannon fodder aspect would be something you'd pass on to the colonial and subsector reserve.
I'm unfamiliar with the game. If the game lacks a reconnaissance mechanic, this may be the only way to represent Scouts in the game system.
In that context, the high defense value might simulate huge squadrons of them that is hard to eliminate and easy to reconstitute.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Yup, we came to the conclusion that lots of hulls was the reason - just think how many type S scouts there are in the Marches.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Assuming it's ye standard scoutship, at two gees it's a sitting duck.
And strategic movement limited to two parsecs.
And strategic movement limited to two parsecs.
Commander Truestar
SOC-13
In an attempt to understand things, there is also possible a temporal answer...
After Virus and the collapse, Regina became the Capitol of the The Regency of Deneb, which is held in the name of the Imperium.
So, Regina does become the "Imperial" Capitol, per se, of the Spinward Marches in that circumstance.
But, now you are mixing historic eras where some data is from Pre-5FW and other data from post-5FW but pre-virus and then mixing with post-Virus
After Virus and the collapse, Regina became the Capitol of the The Regency of Deneb, which is held in the name of the Imperium.
So, Regina does become the "Imperial" Capitol, per se, of the Spinward Marches in that circumstance.
But, now you are mixing historic eras where some data is from Pre-5FW and other data from post-5FW but pre-virus and then mixing with post-Virus
BackworldTraveller
SOC-13
After Virus, the IISS is emasculated anyway as most of its resources are stolen by the RQS. I'm really talking 1105 era here. The Hefry reference is 1105 era.
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