Christopher Jennings
SOC-9
Ahhh, players involved! Don't they just have a wonderfull talent for mayhem. Bless their little jump drives.
Ideal Player ship
- Thread starter Murph
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daryen
SOC-14 1K
I agree with the Type T. It is just a great "adventure's" ship. Plus using TL 10 (Bk2) / TL 12 (Bk 5) technology, it is easier to service than other models.
I have always wanted to do some adventures based on running a "charter" service with a Type T.
For jump-6 stuff, you need either the 400 ton courier from Supp 9 or the 2000 ton Type TJ Imperiallines ship. The courier is probably better for typically paranoid PCs.
I have always wanted to do some adventures based on running a "charter" service with a Type T.
For jump-6 stuff, you need either the 400 ton courier from Supp 9 or the 2000 ton Type TJ Imperiallines ship. The courier is probably better for typically paranoid PCs.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by daryen:
In my view, there is just no real use for a player's ship that cannot land on a planet. To me, that is a requirement.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Usually, yes, though I've been known to give players a large enough ship (A converted 1-kton Solomani Bulk Freighter) that some pretty substantial subcraft were possible...
In my view, there is just no real use for a player's ship that cannot land on a planet. To me, that is a requirement.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Usually, yes, though I've been known to give players a large enough ship (A converted 1-kton Solomani Bulk Freighter) that some pretty substantial subcraft were possible...
Shadow Bear
SOC-12
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by daryen:
I agree with the Type T. It is just a great "adventure's" ship. Plus using TL 10 (Bk2) / TL 12 (Bk 5) technology, it is easier to service than other models.
I have always wanted to do some adventures based on running a "charter" service with a Type T.
For jump-6 stuff, you need either the 400 ton courier from Supp 9 or the 2000 ton Type TJ Imperiallines ship. The courier is probably better for typically paranoid PCs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
We have been playing in a campaign and had the chance to use a 400 ton subsidized merchant and then upgrade to the type T patrol vessel. I think the typt T is great to use in a fight but its limited cargo capacity sucks when you are trying to raise money.
To speculate you need some cash to start with and lots of cargo space to succeed. Jump 3 with 3 or 4 turrets for defense gives lots of options and survivability.
I agree with the Type T. It is just a great "adventure's" ship. Plus using TL 10 (Bk2) / TL 12 (Bk 5) technology, it is easier to service than other models.
I have always wanted to do some adventures based on running a "charter" service with a Type T.
For jump-6 stuff, you need either the 400 ton courier from Supp 9 or the 2000 ton Type TJ Imperiallines ship. The courier is probably better for typically paranoid PCs.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>We have been playing in a campaign and had the chance to use a 400 ton subsidized merchant and then upgrade to the type T patrol vessel. I think the typt T is great to use in a fight but its limited cargo capacity sucks when you are trying to raise money.
To speculate you need some cash to start with and lots of cargo space to succeed. Jump 3 with 3 or 4 turrets for defense gives lots of options and survivability.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
For some reason 300-tonners are pretty uncommon. Only one (Gazelle, sans tanks) appears in offical print, and there are very few even on the net, despite being a nice size. Most people seem to gravitate to 100, 200, or 400 tons when designing.
I have one (the Falcon, a trader, but not quite up to J3), and I think Rob Dean did one or two for MT (Coriander Free Trader-12 being the only one I can find), as did a few others.
Part of the problem, I suspect, is that the two standard 200-ton merchanters were both WAY oversized on deckplans, so people tend to think of them as larger than they are...
I have one (the Falcon, a trader, but not quite up to J3), and I think Rob Dean did one or two for MT (Coriander Free Trader-12 being the only one I can find), as did a few others.
Part of the problem, I suspect, is that the two standard 200-ton merchanters were both WAY oversized on deckplans, so people tend to think of them as larger than they are...
daryen
SOC-14 1K
I like the Type T as it has J-3. And if you drop the Boat and G-Carrier, you end up with 88 dtons for cargo/whatever, which is reasonable enough.
Yes, it is expensive, but *any* ship with jump 3 is going to be a) expensive and b) low cargo.
Besides, with J-3 you probably aren't a pure cargo hauler anymore. You should be moving into the "charter" type efforts.
If you are worried about cargo, I would just take a Type R, but improve its drives to allow J-2 and M-2 (making a Type R2). Since the Type R is made with a standard (not custom) hull, it has enough room to use the bigger drives. Therefore, the deckplans and stats for a Type R using the demountable fuel tanks, is *identical* to a Type R2.
(This is using Book 2. Even with Book 5, you can still get J-2, M-2, 13 SR, 10 LB and 150 dtons of cargo.)
Yes, it is expensive, but *any* ship with jump 3 is going to be a) expensive and b) low cargo.
Besides, with J-3 you probably aren't a pure cargo hauler anymore. You should be moving into the "charter" type efforts.
If you are worried about cargo, I would just take a Type R, but improve its drives to allow J-2 and M-2 (making a Type R2). Since the Type R is made with a standard (not custom) hull, it has enough room to use the bigger drives. Therefore, the deckplans and stats for a Type R using the demountable fuel tanks, is *identical* to a Type R2.
(This is using Book 2. Even with Book 5, you can still get J-2, M-2, 13 SR, 10 LB and 150 dtons of cargo.)
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elliot:
I agree with the above - In the forthcoming editions of Traveller I would like to see a Type MF Frontier Merchant capable of jump 3 and having 3 turrets + cargo space. That would be the best adventurers ship ever.
As i'm not a gearhead, someone else can do it!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Already have, try
http://www.farfuture.net/ixs/Forum4/HTML/000041.html
I agree with the above - In the forthcoming editions of Traveller I would like to see a Type MF Frontier Merchant capable of jump 3 and having 3 turrets + cargo space. That would be the best adventurers ship ever.
As i'm not a gearhead, someone else can do it!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Already have, try
http://www.farfuture.net/ixs/Forum4/HTML/000041.html
daryen
SOC-14 1K
Oh, and regarding Type T ships in private hands:
The Traveller Adventure lists Akerut as having Type T ships. Also Oberlindes used at least one in the adventure.
In Adventure 10, the backup for the patron not making the cruise ship on time was chartering a Type T to get back to Regina.
Plus, if there are enough of them around (and it appears there are), they should be pretty easy to get hold of. (Assuming you have the cash, of course.)
The Traveller Adventure lists Akerut as having Type T ships. Also Oberlindes used at least one in the adventure.
In Adventure 10, the backup for the patron not making the cruise ship on time was chartering a Type T to get back to Regina.
Plus, if there are enough of them around (and it appears there are), they should be pretty easy to get hold of. (Assuming you have the cash, of course.)
Are you guys players or referees? A type T? A broadsword? Holy moly! I couldn't imagine giving characters that kind of firepower unless it was really just a pseudo-miniatures/striker mercenary campaign (no complaints against that, btw).
For me the ideal ship is something that keeps them perpetually broke, always a bit frightened, and constantly looking for payola.
As for character-designed ships, I made that mistake in Mechwarrior. The characters promptly came up with a mech that was all armor and something like 56 machineguns and well-nigh invulnerable. As soon as you start letting characters mess around with non-standard hulls and high guard design systems it won't be long before they come up with something that can take on three or four system defense boats at will. Trillion credit squadron rolled into a single ship. Can you say "Knights of the Dinner Table"?
So I restrict characters to base models (including book 2 and supplement 7 traders and gunboats). They can retro-fit engines, but they have to keep within the "shielded" zone of the engine bay. That means that they can swap out the Far Trader's Jump-2 for a Jump-1, Maneuver-2, Power Plant-2, but they can't just eat into the Far Trader's cargo capacity to increase the maneuverability.
The basic free trader has enough cargo and staterooms to make its payments so long as you're not jumped by pirates. And if you need to get out of the jump-1 rut buy some internal, disposable few tanks. Sure it costs a little extra and takes some time, but that's the price you gotta pay.
The type J low trader/seeker is great. Get a hot-shot jet jockey in the driver's seat and you can pump that baby up to Agility 4...enough to outrun any pirate, but not enough to escape mr. defense boat when you're taking a hold full of x-rated video tapes to a planet run by the christian coalition. Maybe you can ditch him in that asteroid field...or in the depths of that gas giant...finding a Pilot-5 character, though, is gonna be *real* tough.
If I'm feeling really generous maybe they get an uber-ship as the result of some death-defying adventuring. The uber-ship's gotta have some jabba the hut-style skeletons in its closet, however.
For me the ideal ship is something that keeps them perpetually broke, always a bit frightened, and constantly looking for payola.
As for character-designed ships, I made that mistake in Mechwarrior. The characters promptly came up with a mech that was all armor and something like 56 machineguns and well-nigh invulnerable. As soon as you start letting characters mess around with non-standard hulls and high guard design systems it won't be long before they come up with something that can take on three or four system defense boats at will. Trillion credit squadron rolled into a single ship. Can you say "Knights of the Dinner Table"?
So I restrict characters to base models (including book 2 and supplement 7 traders and gunboats). They can retro-fit engines, but they have to keep within the "shielded" zone of the engine bay. That means that they can swap out the Far Trader's Jump-2 for a Jump-1, Maneuver-2, Power Plant-2, but they can't just eat into the Far Trader's cargo capacity to increase the maneuverability.
The basic free trader has enough cargo and staterooms to make its payments so long as you're not jumped by pirates. And if you need to get out of the jump-1 rut buy some internal, disposable few tanks. Sure it costs a little extra and takes some time, but that's the price you gotta pay.
The type J low trader/seeker is great. Get a hot-shot jet jockey in the driver's seat and you can pump that baby up to Agility 4...enough to outrun any pirate, but not enough to escape mr. defense boat when you're taking a hold full of x-rated video tapes to a planet run by the christian coalition. Maybe you can ditch him in that asteroid field...or in the depths of that gas giant...finding a Pilot-5 character, though, is gonna be *real* tough.
If I'm feeling really generous maybe they get an uber-ship as the result of some death-defying adventuring. The uber-ship's gotta have some jabba the hut-style skeletons in its closet, however.
daryen
SOC-14 1K
When did a Type T become a uber-ship? In a one-on-one with an SDB, its probably gonna die. And it sure isn't going to outrun the SDB either. A half-dozen fighters are going to mess it up, too.
Finally, don't forget that an enemy ship doesn't have to kill the PC ship. It just has to mess it up, which will cost MCr to fix. (And if they just got messed up by the local SDB, where are they going to get their ship fixed?)
Finally, don't forget that an enemy ship doesn't have to kill the PC ship. It just has to mess it up, which will cost MCr to fix. (And if they just got messed up by the local SDB, where are they going to get their ship fixed?)
IMO the ideal player ship (depending on the campaign of course) would be the Type-S, A or R.
The Type-S on detached duty has more or less free fuel and maintainance, and the DD hook is nice for the ref to use. It's great for a "wander around having a look" campaign.
The Type-A and R are the only ships that can turn a profit as is, and offer plenty of modification potential. (If players want to eat into cargo space with extra drives and fuel that's up to them).
------------------
Paul
The Type-S on detached duty has more or less free fuel and maintainance, and the DD hook is nice for the ref to use. It's great for a "wander around having a look" campaign.
The Type-A and R are the only ships that can turn a profit as is, and offer plenty of modification potential. (If players want to eat into cargo space with extra drives and fuel that's up to them).
------------------
Paul
WarriorKnight
SOC-12
In the latest part of my long running TimberWolf Campaign(6 yrs. now),the Scout service pull some strings & reactivated all former scouts in the party & their ship( a modified Lord Somerset Class Subliner they got when in a deal w/a PC shipbuilding company(they take in old scouts as payment for a new ship,the company has a deal w/ the scout service from a very old campaign) )to explore a rift that opened in space on to a system.The players weren't very happy.And now the fun begins!!!?
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SgtHulka:
Are you guys players or referees? A type T? A broadsword? Holy moly! I couldn't imagine giving characters that kind of firepower unless it was really just a pseudo-miniatures/striker mercenary campaign (no complaints against that, btw).
For me the ideal ship is something that keeps them perpetually broke, always a bit frightened, and constantly looking for payola.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, of course. These ships are fairly poor money makers unless you can find private escort work, or want to hire the platoon to do starmerc tickets.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
As for character-designed ships, I made that mistake in Mechwarrior. The characters promptly came up with a mech that was all armor and something like 56 machineguns and well-nigh invulnerable. As soon as you start letting characters mess around with non-standard hulls and high guard design systems it won't be long before they come up with something that can take on three or four system defense boats at will. Trillion credit squadron rolled into a single ship. Can you say "Knights of the Dinner Table"?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The players who try this will quickly discover that the concept of the "bigger fish" is alive and well. I'll also opine that the Battletech design system is unbalanced in all editions, as it is painfully simple to outdo their published designs.
To address the specific example, the machine-gun approach to a ship in Traveller has several problems in all editions: firstly, the rules of engagement are such that if you don't have range, you die. Secondly, all weapons of starship grade are limited in number by the hull size (TNE being the exception here). Thirdly, there is no "reverse efficiency" weapon equivalent to Battletech's machinegun; you CAN fire all those laser turrets seperately if you WANT, but the rules make certain that they won't do the same damage as when fired in batteries. You also need to pay more gunners...
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
So I restrict characters to base models (including book 2 and supplement 7 traders and gunboats). They can retro-fit engines, but they have to keep within the "shielded" zone of the engine bay. That means that they can swap out the Far Trader's Jump-2 for a Jump-1, Maneuver-2, Power Plant-2, but they can't just eat into the Far Trader's cargo capacity to increase the maneuverability.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This was exactly the idea behind the engineering compartment numbers in Book 2...
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
If I'm feeling really generous maybe they get an uber-ship as the result of some death-defying adventuring. The uber-ship's gotta have some jabba the hut-style skeletons in its closet, however.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Always a good idea whether its an uber-ship or not. Honestly, though, Traveller is a tough game to make such beasts in, at least singly. Reach the scale of warfleets and this changes, though...
Are you guys players or referees? A type T? A broadsword? Holy moly! I couldn't imagine giving characters that kind of firepower unless it was really just a pseudo-miniatures/striker mercenary campaign (no complaints against that, btw).
For me the ideal ship is something that keeps them perpetually broke, always a bit frightened, and constantly looking for payola.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, of course. These ships are fairly poor money makers unless you can find private escort work, or want to hire the platoon to do starmerc tickets.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
As for character-designed ships, I made that mistake in Mechwarrior. The characters promptly came up with a mech that was all armor and something like 56 machineguns and well-nigh invulnerable. As soon as you start letting characters mess around with non-standard hulls and high guard design systems it won't be long before they come up with something that can take on three or four system defense boats at will. Trillion credit squadron rolled into a single ship. Can you say "Knights of the Dinner Table"?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The players who try this will quickly discover that the concept of the "bigger fish" is alive and well. I'll also opine that the Battletech design system is unbalanced in all editions, as it is painfully simple to outdo their published designs.
To address the specific example, the machine-gun approach to a ship in Traveller has several problems in all editions: firstly, the rules of engagement are such that if you don't have range, you die. Secondly, all weapons of starship grade are limited in number by the hull size (TNE being the exception here). Thirdly, there is no "reverse efficiency" weapon equivalent to Battletech's machinegun; you CAN fire all those laser turrets seperately if you WANT, but the rules make certain that they won't do the same damage as when fired in batteries. You also need to pay more gunners...
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
So I restrict characters to base models (including book 2 and supplement 7 traders and gunboats). They can retro-fit engines, but they have to keep within the "shielded" zone of the engine bay. That means that they can swap out the Far Trader's Jump-2 for a Jump-1, Maneuver-2, Power Plant-2, but they can't just eat into the Far Trader's cargo capacity to increase the maneuverability.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This was exactly the idea behind the engineering compartment numbers in Book 2...
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
If I'm feeling really generous maybe they get an uber-ship as the result of some death-defying adventuring. The uber-ship's gotta have some jabba the hut-style skeletons in its closet, however.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Always a good idea whether its an uber-ship or not. Honestly, though, Traveller is a tough game to make such beasts in, at least singly. Reach the scale of warfleets and this changes, though...
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