Hivers wear coats???
Illegal Traveller CD Copies
- Thread starter hunter
- Start date
- Status
Hivers wear coats???
Just an update on this subject. Some of you may be aware that the T5 CD was posted to demonoid.com; during our investigation we found other Traveller materials on that site as well.
Today demonoid.com responded to the FFE DMCA Takedown notice and has removed all the Traveller materials from their servers.
So the good guys do occasionally win in this area.
Today demonoid.com responded to the FFE DMCA Takedown notice and has removed all the Traveller materials from their servers.
So the good guys do occasionally win in this area.
ShapeShifter
SOC-13
I think you're safe, Sam. Don't sweat it.
If your friend likes the material, encourage him to support Mr. Miller, the Creator of Traveller, by buying some books or CD's from FFE. That way we all benefit.
Gruffty
SOC-14 1K
...we wouldn't do it - we'd send in the Ithklur
Frankymole
SOC-12
I expected to see "China". There are entire factories of pirate stuff there, movies, games, music - not just shops full... How much money has been lost to "the tiger economy"?
And how much more might have been done if the creative talents who actually made all the stuff that was pirated were able to get their share of that money instead of having it all line the pockets of thieves who did nothing creative to earn it.
I fear my views on the subject are a bit ... passionate.
As much as I hate to say it, in the modern digital age, piracy is unavoidable. It's like "shrink" in retail.
For those who never worked in retail management, "shrink" is the percentage of floor stock that is going to be stolen.
Shrink cannot be eliminated, it can only be managed. This means, no matter how much security you have a certain amount of merchandise is going to be stolen. All you can do is train your staff to watch out for shoplifters, have cameras (and tell your customers you do - it is a deterrent to the casual shoplifter) and prosecute those whom you catch.
I love Traveller and respect Mark Miller (I met him at Origins years ago - he's a class act) and even ponied up $100 for the new Traveller on Kickstarter plus another $22 for the 4518th Lift Infantry T-Shirt. I am not defending piracy, I am just saying it's inevitable.
For those who never worked in retail management, "shrink" is the percentage of floor stock that is going to be stolen.
Shrink cannot be eliminated, it can only be managed. This means, no matter how much security you have a certain amount of merchandise is going to be stolen. All you can do is train your staff to watch out for shoplifters, have cameras (and tell your customers you do - it is a deterrent to the casual shoplifter) and prosecute those whom you catch.
I love Traveller and respect Mark Miller (I met him at Origins years ago - he's a class act) and even ponied up $100 for the new Traveller on Kickstarter plus another $22 for the 4518th Lift Infantry T-Shirt. I am not defending piracy, I am just saying it's inevitable.
Yeah, "shrink" happens....
My thought on it is if you have something other folks want, someone will steal it and sell it for less than the orignal price...
Hopefully the people that support the original contribute enough to make up the difference.
Okay, enough of the nice guy stuff; HANG THE PIRATES!
My thought on it is if you have something other folks want, someone will steal it and sell it for less than the orignal price...
Hopefully the people that support the original contribute enough to make up the difference.
Okay, enough of the nice guy stuff; HANG THE PIRATES!
But the Traveller CD?
I mean,... it's Traveller. It's not a bootleg of some band or singer, nor a pirate of some hot movie. It's an RPG. Who in the world would do that?
Sorry for sounding naive here, but I'm very serious about that. How do you get the cajones to rip off a niche war/role-playing-game?
I mean,... it's Traveller. It's not a bootleg of some band or singer, nor a pirate of some hot movie. It's an RPG. Who in the world would do that?
Sorry for sounding naive here, but I'm very serious about that. How do you get the cajones to rip off a niche war/role-playing-game?
CosmicGamer
SOC-14 1K
Maybe $30 isn't a lot to some people, but do you spend it without knowing what you are getting? It's not like you can flip through the book on the shelf and see if it's something your interested in.
Some of people who "steal" it, never really use it and would be the same people to put the book back on the shelf after flipping through it. No money lost there.
What % of people would pay if there was no other way to get the item and how many would just forgo getting the item altogether?
What % of the pirated items make money for the copyright holder as a marketing tool for additional sales? People like it and buy other products? People use pirated items in a game with friends and the friends buy stuff?
Some of people who "steal" it, never really use it and would be the same people to put the book back on the shelf after flipping through it. No money lost there.
What % of people would pay if there was no other way to get the item and how many would just forgo getting the item altogether?
What % of the pirated items make money for the copyright holder as a marketing tool for additional sales? People like it and buy other products? People use pirated items in a game with friends and the friends buy stuff?
Last edited:
I've seen some of this myself. Sometimes I've been the one buying based upon someone else's pirate copy.
But there are also some people who don't believe in intangibles being owned... that is, if it's not a solid object, they don't believe it is property. For them, the book is property, but the images of the pages in the book are not. Others are opposed to copyright as it exists now, either in total or in the subcase of exceeding the original limits in the constitution.
Icosahedron
SOC-14 1K
Some people just look on it as the lesser of multiple evils.
Marc Miller's stuff is available at a reasonable price - he's taken the personal trouble to make it so, and although I can see (and to an extent sympathise with) Cosmic's bookshelf argument, like it or not, there are many books wrapped in cellophane that you just have to take a chance on, or leave alone - or get recommendations. I see no reason to pirate it. If you want the stuff you pay the artist.
OTOH, DGP material, for example, is in the limbo of out of print but in copyright along with far too many other products, and in some cases the rights may have been sold on to dealers or even 'postage stamp burners' who have no intention of marketing the product.
In such situations, no matter what you do you cannot put money into the hands of the original artist, and often you are faced with a choice of paying ten dollars to an illegal profiteer (pirate) or 100 dollars to a legal profiteer (dealer) - or occasionally thousands of dollars to the biggest profiteers of all (lawyers).
Which profiteer do you pay?
Marc Miller's stuff is available at a reasonable price - he's taken the personal trouble to make it so, and although I can see (and to an extent sympathise with) Cosmic's bookshelf argument, like it or not, there are many books wrapped in cellophane that you just have to take a chance on, or leave alone - or get recommendations. I see no reason to pirate it. If you want the stuff you pay the artist.
OTOH, DGP material, for example, is in the limbo of out of print but in copyright along with far too many other products, and in some cases the rights may have been sold on to dealers or even 'postage stamp burners' who have no intention of marketing the product.
In such situations, no matter what you do you cannot put money into the hands of the original artist, and often you are faced with a choice of paying ten dollars to an illegal profiteer (pirate) or 100 dollars to a legal profiteer (dealer) - or occasionally thousands of dollars to the biggest profiteers of all (lawyers).
Which profiteer do you pay?
- Status
