Illegal Traveller CD Copies

[Blue Ghost]

I remember getting burned with a couple of anime DVDs of films that I saw in the 80s. One was the feature film of Macross. Of course the original I saw was a bootleg VHS. I later purchased an authentic VHS from Japan for a couple hundred dollars. Then I purchased a DVD which had faded colors and a few other issues. I purchased an official DVD from a site called "The Japan Internet Goods' Shop" or store or something. That one cost... roughly $50, or so I recall. Excellent studio quality DVD.

If there's no other copy out there, then yeah, the pirate copy gets the nod. I recently purchased another copy of "The High Road to China", one of the all time great adventure romances. I bought a Region-2 DVD from some guy in Taiwan or Hong Kong, and it was a legitimate copy of the R2 release of that film. But it's like the first generation of DVDs to hit the store shelves; essentially a remastered VHS print transferred to digital format. I took a chance, and was thankful for it.

Another time I took a chance was on a Brazilian release of the 80s Flash Gordon. Bootleg. I let the guy know how PO'd I was, and wrote the most negative review I could. Years later I got the special edition DVD which was nice with a crisp and clear image and soundtrack.

I guess if you're patient enough all things will eventually get released. But a boot leg of Traveller? I don't know. You've got to be really, and I mean REALLY low to do that.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

But a boot leg of Traveller? I don't know. You've got to be really, and I mean REALLY low to do that.

Yep. Marc's definitely one of the Good Guys - he bends over backwards to help fans, and sells the CDs for practically peanuts, so we really have a duty to treat his IP respectfully in return.

 

[Garyius2003]

Maybe $30 isn't a lot to some people, but do you spend it without knowing what you are getting? It's not like you can flip through the book on the shelf and see if it's something your interested in.

Some of people who "steal" it, never really use it and would be the same people to put the book back on the shelf after flipping through it. No money lost there.

What % of people would pay if there was no other way to get the item and how many would just forgo getting the item altogether?

What % of the pirated items make money for the copyright holder as a marketing tool for additional sales? People like it and buy other products? People use pirated items in a game with friends and the friends buy stuff?

This. I know what I am buying with Classic Traveller through MT to Hard Times. Piracy there is piracy.

I wish I could have read T4 ahead of time, it would have saved money that could have been used for better games.

As for Mongoose, frankly I read all of them ahead of time online (once T4ed, never again), and only then did I decide what I would buy. In that case it was half, half was well worth the money, the other half was not worth the scrap value of the paper it was printed on.

The T20 materials also had a quality spread, but not so extreme.

 

[Vargas]

Maybe $30 isn't a lot to some people, but do you spend it without knowing what you are getting? It's not like you can flip through the book on the shelf and see if it's something your interested in.

Some of people who "steal" it, never really use it and would be the same people to put the book back on the shelf after flipping through it. No money lost there.

What % of people would pay if there was no other way to get the item and how many would just forgo getting the item altogether?

What % of the pirated items make money for the copyright holder as a marketing tool for additional sales? People like it and buy other products? People use pirated items in a game with friends and the friends buy stuff?

I knew a guy who owned his own game company and his philosophy was that the people stealing his material online wouldn't be willing to buy it anyway. Essentially he wasn't losing money on those people.

I say this without a wink or a nod, piracy is piracy, but I wanted to pass along an insider's viewpoint.

 

[Sir Brad]

Who Pirates RPG's? Counterfeiters & Forgers. when I've got the Cash behind me I Trade in Vintage RPG's, since the mid 90's I've bean seeing counterfeit DTF RPG's on the Vintage Market, being a Niche hobby we are seen as a soft touch for Forgers to practice their printing and aging skills on (when there done with us they move on to literature), to make back there costs they then offload them on to collectors and those of us trying to re-connect with the glory days or the foundation of the Hobby. when I find them I let the seller know what they have got if I know they are on the up & up and I've called the cops on a number of crooked dealers.

Idiots and Misanthropes pirate CDs & DVDs with such a low price point to start with.

 

[Shonner]

The same people that download pirated software naturally are the same people that download pirated RPG PDFs. When confronted, they will state every excuse in the book for why they pirate. It's like they're drug addicts, saying how they'll quit pirating and start buying RPGs. But they never will. They're back on the torrents, looking for something else to steal with their virus-ridden computers.

 

[atpollard]

I know of one RPG publisher who claims to release torrents of his products with a built in trojan or virus (he wasn't specific about the details of exactly what he did) and openly cautions people to buy legitimate copies of his products and beware of pirated copies. He claims it has greatly reduced the pirating of his work.

For me, I'd just like some way to download a low-res copy of a product (sort of like the DTRPG quick preview, except a little more readable and including the whole thing) to get a feel for what it is like before buying it. Some way to 'browse' on line.

... I wonder if it is possible to make a PDF with a 30 day count down like winzip has?

 

[Shonner]

Probably in the future, to open a PDF you'll need to connect to an Adobe server that verifies that you own the PDF and syncs it with your system. Something like what Steam does. With 1-2 free-use days for PDFs you haven't bought yet.

 

[aramis]

Probably in the future, to open a PDF you'll need to connect to an Adobe server that verifies that you own the PDF and syncs it with your system. Something like what Steam does. With 1-2 free-use days for PDFs you haven't bought yet.

RANT MODE

I only have two steam games... both because I got them free...
I dislike any game I have to be online to play.

EA has lost my Sim City business, since most of the time, when I play Sim City on my computer, I have no net.

There's starting to be a backlash, because the solution to piracy is worse for user experience than paying the higher prices due to piracy. We've entered the age of Cripple-ware. Again.

/RANT MODE

On a side note: If you do find pirate of Traveller materials online (i've stumbled across a few), inform DonM so he can do the DMCA takedown process.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I've had intellectual material stolen from me before, usually in the form of a movie review that I find on some obscure DVD site. One time I found one on Amazon by a guy from the middle east who had immigrated to Chicago and was selling bootlegs. He actually told me what a beautiful review I had written. I wasn't flattered and let him know about it, then contacted Amazon. It took a couple of days, but his IP got banned. He may have been one of the guys whose physical address I tracked down, and I threatened to go to the police.

Whenever I think of someone pirating game material, for some reason the thought occurs to me that these people want to play the thing (whatever it is), but the reality is they're just pirates looking to make a quick buck.

As far as the counter measures go to combat piracy, this was one of the things that always struck me as being odd when CDs first became available to the masses. LDs had been around, but you needed some specialized equipment to play them that most people didn't have. then the mini version in the form of the CD comes around, and the first thing that occurs to me is since at the time casette bootlegs were a problem, how are they going to control crystal clear illegal digital copies?

I still have never gotten an answer from anybody.

 

[CosmicGamer]

They're back on the torrents, looking for something else to steal with their virus-ridden computers.

Viruses are programs too.

Stop the hate crimes.

Sponsored by AAVHA
The Anti Anti Virus Hackers Association

:devil::file_21:

 

[HG_B]

Probably in the future, to open a PDF you'll need to connect to an Adobe server that verifies that you own the PDF and syncs it with your system. Something like what Steam does. With 1-2 free-use days for PDFs you haven't bought yet.

That'll only happen if the company is brain dead. There are many lessons to be learned from the screw ups the music industry made in the 90's.

 

[HG_B]

I know of one RPG publisher who claims to release torrents of his products with a built in trojan or virus (he wasn't specific about the details of exactly what he did) and openly cautions people to buy legitimate copies of his products and beware of pirated copies. He claims it has greatly reduced the pirating of his work.

IF true and the publisher is in a Western country, said person will land in jail for quite a while.

 

[DonM]

If you're seeing traveller pdfs posted online again, drop me an e-mail (don.mckinney@gmail.com) with the URL or reference.

 

[SpaceBadger]

If you're seeing traveller pdfs posted online again, drop me an e-mail (don.mckinney@gmail.com) with the URL or reference.

What is Marc's position on snagging a PDF of something that we already own in legitimate hard copy?

Rhetorical question, as I don't go to places where I would be likely to find unauthorized PDFs, but just curious as it seems related to the idea of making scans for personal use only for the convenience of not dragging books around.

 

[Dialogue62]

Not Marc, but...

I'd like to get the pdf for the original World Builders Handbook. I own a physical copy but if could avoid further wear on it, I would.

 

[Taythorian]

Unfortunately this is common place, not just for Traveller but for all games.

Having been a gamer since the early nineties I have a sizeable dead tree collection and more recently have a few purchased PDF's of various games.

I know of numerous sites that exist for the sole purpose of sharing PDFs of either scanned or dewatermarked PDF's.

Any popular gaming system will have it's PDF's available online within days of release. Prime example of this was Wizards who ceased issuing PDF's of their books to stop the Piracy, but then to have Scanned copies of new books appear within one or two days of release.

No gaming system is exempt from this

 

[aramis]

Unfortunately this is common place, not just for Traveller but for all games.

Having been a gamer since the early nineties I have a sizeable dead tree collection and more recently have a few purchased PDF's of various games.

I know of numerous sites that exist for the sole purpose of sharing PDFs of either scanned or dewatermarked PDF's.

Any popular gaming system will have it's PDF's available online within days of release. Prime example of this was Wizards who ceased issuing PDF's of their books to stop the Piracy, but then to have Scanned copies of new books appear within one or two days of release.

No gaming system is exempt from this

Basic D&D was pirated by 1990. Not in PDF, mind you, but in raw text, and circulating on WWIV-net.

TFT wasn't on the nets, but was often being cloned† in the 90's.

-=-=-=-=-
Cloned: photocopied in the totality. Person A has a legit copy. Person B borrows and photocopies the whole thing. I know that my friends copied Adv Melee and Adv Wizard simply because they were not available.

 

[DonM]

The "Kritter" pdf might have been my doing. When I find illegal materials, I do review them before submitting DMCA requests. If one of them is better than a scan of Marc's, I send him a copy.

I figure it's his right to get some return back from their theft.

Been interesting finding various Mongoose third party items copied. It's strange to see what's popular.

What is important is that once the T20 CD is out, all of the Traveller legacy materials will be available again legally. No one will have an excuse to steal them, because at FFE's prices, you can get an entire edition for cheap.

With errata...

 

[RatPatrol]

ah the old Internet Piracy Debate .....

best said, from Eric Flint Author


http://www.baen.com/library/prime_palaver1.asp
http://www.baen.com/library/prime_palaver6.asp


when Baen started the Free Library