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Imperial weapons permits

So you are saying the right to carry firearms is an Imperial law.

Therefore there is no point to the local law level since any Imperial citizen can use their Imperial right to bear arms...

I think such a right would only apply to those who are directly agents of the Imperium, not to the average (e.g. free trader) traveller.
 
Only if they invoke the power of the Imperial Warrant.

Yes, absolutely. My point is the Imperium can trump local law, not that it goes about doing so as a matter of course. I would expect that an ordinary dogsbody from the MoJ would have no right to carry a gun where local law prohibited it. He'd be expected to work diplomatically with local authorities.

And if you do that to a high population TL15 industrial world be prepared for the consequences...

That's what interdiction is for ... to allow time for the IISS Contact and Liaison Branch to contact and liaise with a suitable replacement government, and to engineer the overthrow of the troublemakers.

But I am digressing from the OP. :)

No where did I ever infer that being a citizen of the 3I gives you the right to bear arms. In fact, it does not.

I would suggest that being a citizen of the Imperium grants you no rights whatsoever (see Article VIII), and that "citizen" is a rather sloppy usage, since it implies privileges. "Subject" is more apt. But I am digressing still further....
 
Where the law gets interesting... firing a starship weapon from orbit or a port facility at a place on the planet not imperial property.
This sort of thing could reasonably be considered an act of war or terrorism by a planetary government, depending on who fired the weapon and what they shot at. At the very least the planetary authorities would be quite justified in dispatching a system defence boat to neutralise the threat.

Even if you get away you've now got a price on your head in a 13th system ...
 
So, as a tl;dr, Imperial Agents (MoJ, Army, Navy, Scout, Nobility) could get around local laws regarding weapons, and the local government would have to deal with it. Of course, a lowly Scout invoking Imperial law isn't going to be looked at nicely by his superiors for causing a diplomatic incident over a handgun.

The imperium doesn't care about what personal/shipborn weapons people are toting around space, maybe baring radioactive weapons (FGMP, Particle Accelerators, Meson Guns). That's the problem of local governments.

Local governments could of course refuse the imperial personnel whatever they ask, but then depending on what they refuse the imperium could retaliate for refusing their will. Refusing to let a Imperial Dreadnaught dock at the starport is different from refusing to let a MoJ agent carry his service piece.
 
If you go with 'Emperor Makes Law Period', then every single year of every OTU is really IMTU, since the emperor can change his mind at any time and we all have different ideas as to 'what the Emperor should do'.

Rather, I think there would be a matter of 'customary policy' that would be in play to reconcile typical Imperial need so there is an expectation and a working relationship as to what happens, without staying the Emperor's hand to do what is required for the defense of the realm under extraordinary circumstances.

That would be the typical situation for the OP's solitaire game, unless the result is some astronomical rolling 10 6s in a row- then the previously unknown dais built into every Type S rises up in the middle of the bridge, and our hitherto lowly hero gets the release codes for his Imperial Warrant....
 
This is the way I see things playing out for example on Lemish:

Lemish has a high law level, indicating that no weapons are allowed for its citizenry or visitors. Planetary/system law enforcement, on the other hand, is armed at least in "special weapons teams" if not rank and file officers. Being caught with a weapon is a violation of Lemishian law, unless you are a member of the law enforcement communities or a licenced bodyguard.

The Imperial nobility, meaning the subsector duke, baron and knight, who all have the "right/privledge" to raise husclares, have a "right/privledge" of being armed. But being that Lemish is a civilized planet, (regardless of what the TAS says, :) ) such priveldge is largely cerimonial and limited to personal firearms and or blade. It does not extend to WMDs or NBC weapons. None of this vials of antrax for duck hunting.

Imperial agents of the MOJ, (or other appropriate ministries) are required to notify Starport Authority upon arrival. I conjecture that the Emperor may issue the equivalent of a "License to Kill" warrant, to a FEW agents, and this number of Imperial weapon holders will be so few that the probablity of one showing up on Lemish to be quite rare. About as common as 007 visiting Muncie Indiana.

So, on Lemish, local Law enforcement does not carry lethal weapons. There are Special Weapons teams available to local law enforcment. Huscarles and bodyguards may be armed, but are licenced. Nobility may be armed, but is generally not done, because of the lack of need. Imperial Agents outside the starport will need dispensation from local authorities but generally this is a minor formality and easily obtained. Lemish is a loyal planet of the Imperium, and aids the Emperor when ever it is needed.

Now, after the Imperial Navy leaves in 1116, all bets are off :)
 
Interesting idea. Imperial Starports are extraterritorial, meaning they are considered part of the Imperium, not the local world, and not subject to Local Law, but rather Imperial Law only. Once you or your Cargo are out of the starport and have cleared customs, you are subject to Local Law as well as Imperial Law. Mind you, as Timerover said, this does not prevent Starport Authority from enforcing local Law Level requirements and working with the local Law, but that is for you as a ref to decide for yourself IYTU.

You should also note that the Imperial starport is not always the only starport on a world. Non Imperial starports are fully subject to Local Law. Heck, this could be one justification for having a TL 12 world with only a D class starport listed. The listed starport is the Imperial Starport and only class D, and there may well be a local class A, B or C starport as well. But landing at the non Imperial Starport puts you under the direct authority of Local Law, not just the Imperial Law, and that could mean trouble.

Fun stuff.

Greetings, Cryton, nice to hear from you.

I had not considered the case of multiple Starports, but I would expect that, particularly on a Balkanized world. I am a bit leery of extraterritorial rights, as those have historically caused problems, but I cannot imagine the Imperium trying to maintain several starports on a planet.

Thinking of the question, I wonder if the Imperium would put a Downport on a Balkanized world, as that could be a very big flash point for conflict if the world has multiple major powers.
 
At the risk of adding fuel, just because a government sets a high law level does not mean it's police force must be unarmed, DA6a Divine Intervention has the guards armed with SMGs and blade/daggers and yet the Law Level of Pavabid is 8.

I would argue that a high law level would almost dictate that a planet's police force would be well-armed.
 
I would argue that a high law level would almost dictate that a planet's police force would be well-armed.

Not necessarily. The question would be whether the police force needed to go armed, which really depends on the local culture rather than on how strict the laws are. "Law level" is really a rather simplistic idea, which doesn't really reflect (a) what the laws say and (b) what popular attitudes towards those laws are, or (c) what the actual street-level availability of banned weapons, etc., is.
 
Even in the most severe oppressive dictatorships often have lightly armed (melee weapons) police in most public areas. They definitely have their death squads and tactical units...
 
Not necessarily. The question would be whether the police force needed to go armed, which really depends on the local culture rather than on how strict the laws are. "Law level" is really a rather simplistic idea, which doesn't really reflect (a) what the laws say and (b) what popular attitudes towards those laws are, or (c) what the actual street-level availability of banned weapons, etc., is.

I suppose, that that would be entirely dependent upon the government type. :CoW:
 
None of this vials of antrax for duck hunting.

Just a side comment. I am assuming what is meant by "antrax" is actually "anthrax". I checked by biological agents data book, and anthrax does not appear to be transmitted to birds. What you would need for waterfowl is Newcastle Disease Virus (also known as pseudo fowl pest virus). Parrot fever does not work on waterfowl, nor does fowl plague virus.

Anthrax principally effects herbivorous mammals, although other mammals and man can be effected by it. It would appear to have considerable potential for use on the K'kree, some possibility for use on the Vargr, and possibly on the Aslan.

However, given the effects on humans, I would say that any individual caught with vials of anthrax spores is going to have a LOT of explaining to do.

Edit Note: The above information is unclassified data, obtained from TM3-216 Military Biology and Biological Agents, March 1964.
 
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As far as I know, the MOJ is primarily concerned with Middle Justice (Check out JTAS 14). Should the MOJ agents run across a High Justice case, one would expect a visit from a Edict 97 Agent.

~Cryton

So you asume Edict 97 being a quite common warrant?

Being close to a Carte Blanche from the Emperor himself, I see it as a very uncommon one, only a few being in force at any time.

But it's also said that similar edicts are issued by Dukes and Archdukes in their territories, but even then, those will be special agents (akin of the fabled 00), and only a few wil lbe in each sector.

SO, I guess lesser Imperial agents are at hand from various agencies to perform those (relatively) minor missions, and I guess they can overcome local law in the weapons matter

What is an Imperial planet?
They can request and are entitled to local law enforcement support. If local law enforcement doesn't use guns why would they allow an off world agent to do so contrary to local law?

Who told you local LE are unarmed in the high law planets?

Most planets with heavy weapons restrictions keep their LE armed nonetheless. After all ,that's what allows them to keep the law.

I've never assumed the weapons restrictions from local law affect their own LEOs, who will sure have permits for them.

Therefore there is no point to the local law level since any Imperial citizen can use their Imperial right to bear arms...

I never told about Imperial citizens having the right to bear arms in planets where they are forbiden. I told about Imperial Agents being so allowed.

So, as a tl;dr, Imperial Agents (MoJ, Army, Navy, Scout, Nobility) could get around local laws regarding weapons, and the local government would have to deal with it. Of course, a lowly Scout invoking Imperial law isn't going to be looked at nicely by his superiors for causing a diplomatic incident over a handgun.

As said above, a Scout being in no special mission in a planet where weapons are forbidden can be arrested by local LE for weapons possesion (and if latter released by Impreial autorities he/she can expect very unpleasent assignements at least). An IISS agent in mission in the same planet will be allowed to carry this same weapon without any fear to local law.
 
Except that notation is made in one of the adventures that Imperial Nobles are generally exempted from local law level restrictions...
For that particular world possibly, in general no.

Except that notation is made in one of the adventures that Imperial Nobles are generally exempted from local law level restrictions...
Interesting, I hadn't found that one. IMTU I have a thing called "Imperial privilege" which essentially gives to any Imperial noble (or person designated by warrant) the equivalent of diplomatic immunity on all worlds: planetary laws do not apply to them. This freedom is restrained in practice by a kind of noblesse oblige: nobles are obligated to behave like nobles and to respect the diplomatic relationship between worlds and empire. Junior nobles who forget this principle may find themselves in hot water: high nobles would prefer that relations with world governments not deteriorate to the point at which they might have to use their naval power to remind everyone who is in charge. It's embarrassing when you have to nuke your subjects.

This conflicts with something in the Library Data supplements, which hold that the law applies to nobles, too. I take that to mean that the Emperor's laws apply to nobles ... something that only higher ranking nobles can really enforce.

From TD9, page 31 (article Noblesse Oblige):

With regard to personal safety, he is allowed (applying to retinue and bodyguards) to "bear arms" to his content, armed (with respect to any peers in mind) discreetly.

<snip>

Member knights of an order classed as "Defenders of the Realm" are usually permited to carry weaponry in excess of the local law levels, even in the presence of a greater noble

I'm not sure about the implications of this, but it seems that nobles can bear arms regardless local law...

If so, maybe high level MoJ agents that can have trouble with this are made Honor Knights to avoid problems (after all, it's easier to elevate someone to Honor Knight than to issue him/her an Edict 97 warrant, and they will not be too many such agents).
 
From TD9, page 31 (article Noblesse Oblige):



I'm not sure about the implications of this, but it seems that nobles can bear arms regardless local law...

If so, maybe high level MoJ agents that can have trouble with this are made Honor Knights to avoid problems (after all, it's easier to elevate someone to Honor Knight than to issue him/her an Edict 97 warrant, and they will not be too many such agents).
Thanks for finding the citation... I couldn't remember where I'd seen it.

I have it on good authority (the late Don McKinney) that Traveller's Digest is just as canon as anything else by DGP after the release of MT.

Which means, at least, the sitting landed nobles have the right to discrete armaments. Which generally means, more than the local populace, probably less than the local constabulary's armed members (noting that a variety of law levels have majority unarmed or baton-only constables on the beat).

I would expect that Imperial officers on duty are also armed routinely; in fact, I expect almost all imperial combatant forces on groundside service are armed. (You seldom see illos without sidearms in GDW/DGP/IG/T20 materials.)

Further, actual warrant holders can have you shot just for questioning their actions or demanding explanations. (We see some of this in Agent.) Hell, digital ghosts of a handful of warrant holders are still able to have you shot for questioning their methods.
 
Further, actual warrant holders can have you shot just for questioning their actions or demanding explanations.

So here's a great example of something that conflicts clearly (and painfully) with the JTAS stuff posted above referring to Imperial law upholding the "rights of sentient beings." Presumably, the rights of sentient beings are somewhat ... limited.
 
Thanks for finding the citation... I couldn't remember where I'd seen it.

I rememberes the name of the article, but wasn't unsure where it was.

The unsung heroes that keep the Traveller wiki are the ones to thank, as looking for the article there is how where I found wich TD to look (I was searching it on my Challenge collection).
 
Keep in mind that most adjoining jurisdictions have cooperative agreements that give each other some sort of extra jurisdictional authority. These would include agreements on extradition, and are typically mutually beneficial. Most jurisdictional statutes typically have some sort of "hot pursuit" exception, though this is far less often used.

These agreements exist because they are mutually beneficial.

Thus, in addition to certain (very limited) cases where certain Imperial officials have the authority to carry arms outside the XT line, in excess of the law level, there would likely be other agreements. These may include Imperial agreements to (voluntarily) limit the time place and manner of the exercise of the above authority, and local mechanisms to apply for specific license to exceed it.

An example could be a Imperially registered merc unit applying to operate on a LL7 world. Obviously the planetary government would have to agree for them to operate there, but what weaponry they bring, and times/places/mannners of its use are all subject to negotiation. The local government may similarly have a Status of Forces agreement regarding Imperial forces, and what exceptions are granted to them.

While Imperial law trumps local law, the tradition is one of leaving the locals to run things with minimal interference. The more the locals cooperate, the less the Impies need to get tactical and go chasing some fugitive with all manner of unseemly weapons. The Impies want to do a TL15-juiced surveillance, arrest, and confiscation of evidence on a TL 7 Imperial member world, they can just move in and do so; they will probably coordinate with the locals, and not flash any TL15 stuff around. The Impies tell the locals it's safe, they go up with their local unit, and arrest, then seal the place up for the Impies to covertly do a TL15 exploitation. The locals march the fugitive to the starport.

Could the Impies go wherever they wanted; likely yes. They would not, however. Often not, it would be because they were restrained by Imperial, not local law. As Imperial law trumps local law, and we know that local law levels are effective, it is because they are allowed to be by the Imperium. In the same spirit, the exceptions the Imperium requires will be very narrow, though those allowed by the locals may be broader, as long as appearances are kept up.
 
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