IMTU. A new (old) start

[Dragoner]

Hans' view is good for an example of a closed system like the Ziru Sirka, as opposed to a totally open system like the Rule of Man, with the Third Imperium being a hybrid evolution of both systems. Open enough and closed enough as it needs to be to retain flexibility, yet still having a rigid enough structure to stand. This satisfies both the rule of law and rule of men arguments, which we see in the real world today where government officials break laws, and do get away with it if the results are positive.

It seems that CT also says there are a lot of just idle Nobles, with little else than titles and maybe some cash. I recall reading somewhere, maybe in library data, that government positions come with a title, so maybe it is not the duke that becomes subsector chief, but that the subsector chief becomes a Duke. Another thing, is that it also seems the Spinward Marches are directly responsible to the Emperor, as there is not an Archduke for the Domain of Deneb. This means most Knights and Barons in the Marches are title holders from the Emperor, which would make them somewhat more influencial than there counterparts uplifted by just an Archduke.

 

[MR TEK]

Structure vs administration

IO am just getting p to speed on this conversation, but it seems many have missed a key point.

Let's take one of the positions stated here:

Sub-sector Dukes ARE the Imperial government and speak and act with the absolute voice of the Imerium.

​

Further posit, the duke acts in the most honorable way, and absolutely administers Imperial law without deviation.

That is the most extreme argument to state that Piracy, interstellar warfare and all of the other bad things that people suggest requires "corruption" in the government to be tolerated.

I am not advocating or arguing against this belief, just using it as a point of reference to examine the actual administration of the local sub-sector.

Now some common issues -

Piracy: Limited acts of piracy take at least one week to be reported to the Duke's office. Let's say it takes 48 hours for a ship to be ready to jump to the system in question.

by the time that ship arrives, two weeks plus from the incident the pirates can be in any system withing 3 jumps of of that world.

If the pirate ship was correctly IDed the notice to other systems will arrive at the same time as the first ship, and before the ship arrives in the next system. With correct ID, AND the ship arriving DOCKING at an Imperal starport, the pirates are captured, end of story. Any of those is NOT true, and it takes resources to track them and capture them. Well within the resources of the Sub-sector, IF THOSE RESOURCES are idle and there are not other pressing concerns.

I would like to see the argument that a sub-sector has enough assets to spend months following up every act of piracy, or maintain enough presence in every single system that piracy is not practical any where.

Long term piracy: If pirates are operating repeatedly within a few systems, the need to take action means that resources WILL eventually be devoted to resolve the situation.

If it is a criminal operation, they will have resources of their own, and will take effort to root out, but likely the local duke WILL expend that effort, but all of those resources are tied up for a significant length of time.

But suppose it is a corporate war, only only ships of two corporations are involved. If those ships are the bulk if trade in that region, and it is damaging trade in general, the resources will be devoted to solve it.

But what if it is more restrined? They only pirate ships carring key shipments of the other company? Only enough to damage that lines ability to carry cargo, or their reputation. It on;ly marginally affects commerce overall, and hostilities do not extend to none combatants. The imperative to resolve the situation is reduced tremendously. If it continues long enough or escalates something must be done, otherwise it could be a VERY low priority, and likely handled addimistrativly, with sactions for specific events that endanger non-combatants, or slows trade significantly.

Trade wars: Even more so that corporate piracy, trade wars would have little effect beyond pricing to anyone but the belligerent entities. If it is wot\rlds, trade between the two would be affected, but if trade with surrounding systems were not materially affected there would be virtually no imperative for the sub-sector to put much effort into controlling the situation, unless something beyond the pale occures.

Warfare: Again, the need to devote resources will depend on how much non-combatants are involved. Suppose it required a couple of Imperal crusers to achieve peace. At that point the Cruisers would be sent. But they are NOT going to be able to show the flag and move on. The cruisers would be able to leave, but enough ships to maintain that peace, plus imperial troops and a cadre of diplomats and mid level bureaucrats from most of the imperial agencies to unravle and settle the dispute to the point it will not flair up again as soon as the long arm of the law leaves.

​

In all of these cases COMMUNICATION takes a bare minimum of 2 weeks, as does ANY action by the Duke. Using resources at his capital he can respond in roughly that same two weeks, plus whatever time it takes to decide on the action, and get the bureaucracies involved to send orders and or personnel.

further out than 4 parsecs adds at least a week transit time.

Any personnel or assets that are NOT on the capital take even more weeks to coordinate and and arrive.

Now, for small violations, the local bureaucracy can handle the situation administratively, and the Duke does not need to take any action. But if it requires his attention, the time alone is a MAJOR factor. If he can issue orders, and the local imperial elements can execute them without additional orders, or resources the situation can be dealt with in short order.

But if he has to figure out the situation, and devote additional resources, time explodes exponentially, and those resources have to be diverted to the crisis, leaving other issues hanging in the breeze.

There are situations that generate an automatic response. Weapons of mass destruction, major disruptions to trade, ANY damage to Imperial property.

But in those cases, the retribution would be institutional, with the Duke following struck rules with out too much discretion. The responce would almost certainly be massively disproportionate to the offence if it is to have any deterrent effect.

Add that Dukes have different priorities, personal relationships, goals and personal styles, and it is clear that Imperial law will be enforced inconsistently, and smaller breaches will be addressed in a prefuctionary manner. They will not pursued with zeal, unless there is a reason for it directly affect the Duke or other Imperial agencies.

If the sector wide corp is involved, they are going to have the cover to allow them much greater latitude that the same violations by a single free trader.

Note that NONE of this even considers Canon statements. They are irrelevant, as with the communications delays, even the local Duke is " ... a remote and centralized government...".

Local bureaucracy will be virtually completely autonomous as long as the situation is within their ability to handle.

If you add an element that local bureaucracies tend to not want to acknowledge that they can't handle the situation, ( not necessarily true, but bureaucracies as we know them today tend towards that reaction, with exceptions,) and reaction time at higher levels is extended even more, and the situation is that much worse when the appropriate resources arrive.

Just my opinion, but I think that all of these issues have to be considered.

 

[McPerth]

Another thing, is that it also seems the Spinward Marches are directly responsible to the Emperor, as there is not an Archduke for the Domain of Deneb. This means most Knights and Barons in the Marches are title holders from the Emperor, which would make them somewhat more influencial than there counterparts uplifted by just an Archduke.

IIRC Archdukes had no real power (most offices were in fact vacant) until Strephon revived the Domains, so most nobles all arround the Imperium are title holders form the Emperor (only the newest noble patents can come from Archdukes), and I guess most of nobility is still accostuming itself to the fact Archdukes hold power again.

In fact, I only remember to have read about archdukes since MT was published. Are there any CT references about them?

 

[E.D.Quibell]

Ewan:

your whole argument fails on the simple fact that proclamation IS legislation.

You can't run any type of technological sociaty without some type of leagal framework. Yes proclamation is legislation, however proclamation is not leglislation as we know it in a modern western sociaty.

Subsector Dukes do not Govern in their own right by proclamation - it's a sector level function. They do not run enforcement agencies; same restriction. At least not per CT canon.

I would say that Dukes don't legislate at all, however they are the head of the buracracy in their patch, and I would say that the buracracy runs all the ministries, in which case they do run the enforcement agancies (the MoJ) and they are an enforcment agancy in themselves. The only court system in the Imperium are the Nobel courts, and they would run their own and thus Judge the cases brough to them.

The Imperium makes laws by proclamation of sector dukes and the emperor. That rejects the whole "Men, Not Laws" diatribe, and diatribe isn't a strong enough term for it.

You and Hans put way too much on "a free hand..."

A Sector Duke is the first amoung equals, and to say that they legislate while the others don't is giving them more power than cannon does. I would suggest that you either have to go with Hans' suggestion that all Dukes Legislate, or mine where none of them do.

The Imperium isn't a set of seperate states that are federated by Capital. It's a feudal Empire. The only people who produce proclamations in feudal sociatoes are Kings or Emporers.

My argument is that there is a small boady of law (Imperial Proclomations), that is enforced by the Imperial Nobels in their own patches with the Imperial resources they have at hand, using precident and policy. This means that the person on the spot is the one making the decisions, within a very wide framework and guidelines from their superiors in which to make it. So their desisions are not based on what little law there is it's based on what is in the interests of the Empire and the Emporer. And this is where the men not law comes in (not capatilised).

And your assersion that me and Hans put way too much on "a free hand..." is correct. The whole point about having a feudel sociaty with hereditory nobels is so there there is a very free hand in what they do. If everything is tied down by the rule of law why have nobels and why not impose that law on all the member systems? If such a body of law existed then why not?

Best regards,

Ewan

 

[E.D.Quibell]

The way I see it (and here I'm going to draw on the whole body of canon, not just the early bits, and extrapolate a bit too) is that the Emperor legislates in two ways. One way is that his ministries work out complete and explicit laws for the entire Imperium and the Emperor then proclaim it to be Imperial law. The other way is that he sends out an edict that expresses his desires in broad terms: "The duchies shall establish legislation to achieve this or that broad goal" [with due attention paid to local conditions of which the distant central government has no chance in hell of knowing enough to make intelligent decisions].

The whole point of having a local governor is that he can react faster and know more about local conditions. A rule that works for Duchy A would cause chaos and despondency in Duchy B. So the Emperor instructs his dukes what goals he wants them to achieve and leaves it to them to work out how.

Sometimes an Imperial edict may include a suggestion for a duchy level law that the dukes can adopt as is or adapt to fit local conditions. Dukes will often coordinate with neighboring dukes to dovetail laws with each other. Dukes in a sector may use summit meetings to hammer out sector level provisions, then each of them enacting those provisions for their respective duchies.

Certain Imperial activities has to be coordinated at the sector level. One subsector duke in each subsector gets the additional administrative duty of overseeing and coordinate these functions. The chief of which is the Imperial Navy, but other Imperial agencies are also organized at the sector level. Top level MoJ agents, for example, get Ducal warrants from the sector duke that are valid in the whole sector (but limited to crimes that fall within their jurisdiction, of course).

The above is my opinion, not canon, although I believe it is fully compatible with all known canon on the subject except for one sentence that is, I believe, the result of a mistake.


Hans

I see it in a very simmilar way, although I have the Dukes using policy, not legislating. The law is the Emporers, the way it's implemented is down to local conditions.

I see minstaries being sector based, so the sector Duke has much more infulance over policy throughout the sector.

I aslo exstend the responsibility for the implementation of Imperial law to the other Imperial Nobels as well, because they are vassels of the Empoeror and not the Dukes. This is another reason why I don't have the Dukes legislate, because if they did they would be imposing their law on the Emporer's vassels. However by using policy in their area the other Imperial Nobels have a simmilar latitue in it's interpritation and they can do the same type of thing as the Dukes are (responding to local conditions) but in their own patch.

Best regards,

Ewan

 

[E.D.Quibell]

So, I keep seeing everyone talking about the Emperor, the Dukes and here and there. the MegaCorps, but no one seems to be taking either the Senate or the Moot into account. Why not?

I talked about the Moot. I see it as a talking shop that informs Imperial Law and Policy. It only has one legilative function and that is to dispand the Imperium, and the only other thing it does is confirm the next emporer if there are competing claims, and all that really is is swearing fiaty to the new emperoer it's not a "function" as such. The most popular candidate that the nobels can agree apon wins.

I can see that the Senate must not be all that important, after all Senators can get locked up on the Gash (I am pretty sure that is the prison barge, but too lazy to get up and check) without so much as a peep from the media (TNS) or anyone other than their family for that matter. So perhaps we can skip the Senate, which we never really hear of again as it is.

I think the Senate is local system thing and not an Imperial thing.

But the Moot, well, that has been around since Clean founded the Third Imperium, so what do they do there? I always thought they were the source of Law. The Emperor rules by Proclamation, Decree, Edict, and Warrant, none of these actually are law, code or statute. For those I figured that was what the Moot did, that and of course confirming Citizen So and So as Deputy Minister of Commerce, setting and approving the Budgets of the Ministries and Military and such.

I have it the otherway around. I have the Moot dicussing Imperial Policy and informing new Imperial Law. If the Empoerer choses to take their advise then all well and good.

So, how come no one is talking about what they do? Seems to me they have a chunk of power in the Imperium, just one that seems to be overlooked.

For me the Nobels are the Imperium. It's the fundermental difference between a monarcy and a republic. In a monarcy the king is the state, and in a republic the president represents the state.

Best regards,

Ewan

 

[E.D.Quibell]

I would assume, in my version of things, that with nobility comes obligation. The nobility on some world has a hierarchy. The sub-sector has a hierarchy, the sector one, the Imperium one.

snip ...

Yep. Pretty much agree.

Best regards,

Ewan

 

[E.D.Quibell]

They have two powers established in canon...

1) to dissolve the Imperium
2) to confirm a new emperor (and by extension, refuse to confirm candidates that will be bad for the Imperium...)

The implications of #2 include, essentially, electing a new emperor from the various claimants when no clear choice exists.

In other words, the Moot really is nothing more to the 3I than the College of Cardinals is to the Catholic Church - vital when needed, but needed only when the leader dies, abdicates, or goes nutters. The rest of the time, it's members have other duties, mostly obtained as a result of being a member of said body.

From a legislative point of veiw I agree.

The "confirm a new emperor" bit is just the Nobel body of the Imperium swearing fialty to the new Emporer. Confirming that they are his/her vassels, not confirming that the Emporer is "correct" if that makes sence?

Chosing the new emperor when no clear choice exists, is just the majority agreeing that they would rather swear fialty to one clament rather than another. College of Cardinals is a much better analogy than an election. Much more single transferable vote than first past the post.

Best regards,

Ewan

 

[E.D.Quibell]

In fact, I only remember to have read about archdukes since MT was published. Are there any CT references about them?

Yes in the library data suppliments.

Best regards,

Ewan

 

[aramis]

IIRC Archdukes had no real power (most offices were in fact vacant) until Strephon revived the Domains, so most nobles all arround the Imperium are title holders form the Emperor (only the newest noble patents can come from Archdukes), and I guess most of nobility is still accostuming itself to the fact Archdukes hold power again.

In fact, I only remember to have read about archdukes since MT was published. Are there any CT references about them?

yes.

Supp 11. Which grants them the power to appoint knights and bannerets, notes that the domain knighthood orders are all in use save Order of Deneb, as Archduke of Deneb was never filled, and denies them power to legislate or enforce. Also the following is of note:

THE DOMAINS
The domains of the lmperium had their origin in the pacification campaigns in the early days of the Imperium. Once the willing systems were integrated into the Imperium, it became necessary to force membership on additional systems as the empire expanded. As the campaigns drew to a close, the Emperor Artemsus divided his map into six rough areas. After reserving the four sectors comprising Sylea to himself, he sketched out five adjacent areas, labeled them domains, and appointed archdukes over them. To each archduke, he assigned the continuing pacification of the domain's many systems, and their integration into the Imperium. Each domain drew its name from some notable feature of the territory it contained. The names of the first six domains were Sylea, Vland, Gateway, Ilelish, Antares, and Sol. The territories of the domains were not entirely within the lmperium when they were assigned, and some of them still are not entirely within the lmperium today.
[...]
A seventh domain, Deneb, was created in the first year of the First Frontier War (589). The intent was to establish an archduke in the new territories (Deneb and the Spinward Marches') to be responsible for their supervision. However, the Civil War broke out before an archduke was appointed.
Following the Civil War, the emperors were understandably concerned about individuals with power approaching their own, and moved to lessen the importance of the archdukes in the lmperial government. In any event, the main purpose of the domains (to absorb territory) had been completed to the extent that was practicable, and that they were no longer needed. Because of this, no archduke of Deneb
was ever appointed.​

Atlas mentions that:

LA: The League of Antares is a small autonomous region under the direct control of the Archduke of Antares.​

A dozen worlds, in a roughly contiguous cluster. Possibly a pocket empire that joined as a whole; note that Antares isn't part of the League...

Pretty much "not much."

 

[E.D.Quibell]

So, what I've gotten from all this so far.

1. The Emperor rules by proclamation.

For me. Yes

2. The Moot has only 2 functions. To confirm a new Emperor, and to dissolve the Imperium.

Confirm is a bit strong for me, but basically yes.

3. Aside from sector dukes, The Imperial nobility really has little power, and little responsibility other than to see that member worlds enforce those few Imperial laws, and to collect taxes. And sector Dukes have the added annoyance of running the sectors Imperial Navy as well.

I would argue that the Imperial Nobels have all the power and all the responsiobility in the Imperium. YMMV.

Best regards,

Ewan

 

[aramis]

Ewan: The only feudalism in canon IS the archdukes and their knights and baronets.

Marc misused the term; there is no subinfeudation, so barring the archdukes and their subinfeudated vassals, there is only one level of vassalage.

Given that canon expressly states legislation is a sector function, the sector dukes must be allowed to legislate; given that lesser dukes are "associated" but sector dukes "come to power" and "rule", I'd say that shoots your position in the foot.

Duke: The fifth level of noble rank is the duke, and is associated with a subsector. The noble is referred to by the title followed by "of" and the subsector name. The power of the duke depends on circumstances and the situation within the sector, but generally one duke within a sector rises to power and comes to be the sector duke, the ruler of that sector. No special title is awarded to a sector duke.(S11 p.36)​

 

[E.D.Quibell]

snip ....

And that's my view.

EDIT: If anyone can point out any part of the above (apart from the bit I've already stipulated) that directly contradicts anything in CT (or any other part of Canon, for that matter), please do so. That's contradict, not 'can be interpreted differently' or 'doesn't say anything at all about it'.

The bit about the Duchies being pocket empires would seem to be wrong. All Imperial Nobels are vassels of the Emperoer not the Dukes. So a Dutchy isn't a Dutchy in the same was as it was in medieval sociaty.

Best regards,

Ewan

 

[E.D.Quibell]

Ewan: The only feudalism in canon IS the archdukes and their knights and baronets.

Marc misused the term; there is no subinfeudation, so barring the archdukes and their subinfeudated vassals, there is only one level of vassalage.

Agreed

Given that canon expressly states legislation is a sector function, the sector dukes must be allowed to legislate; given that lesser dukes are "associated" but sector dukes "come to power" and "rule", I'd say that shoots your position in the foot.

No cannon expressly states legislation is an Imperial function. The context of where this is stated can be interperated as that there is no legislation at the sector level. YM obviously varies.

Duke: The fifth level of noble rank is the duke, and is associated with a subsector. The noble is referred to by the title followed by "of" and the subsector name. The power of the duke depends on circumstances and the situation within the sector, but generally one duke within a sector rises to power and comes to be the sector duke, the ruler of that sector. No special title is awarded to a sector duke.(S11 p.36)​

No this would suggest that Sector Dukes change on a regular basis, and this would mean that sector legislation wouldn't work as when the sector duke changes all their legislation is effectivly repealed. Much easier not to have legilation and just change policy.

Best regards,

Ewan

 

[aramis]

Ewan,

Currently, the domains have little practical significance. The lmperial navy no longer includes the domains as a level in its bureaucracy. The domains collect no taxes. Legislation and enforcement are the prerogative of the Imperium, or of the sectors. Outside the Imperium, the domain has never been more than a convenient map reference.
(S11 p.7. Emphasis & coloring mine)​

Unless one asserts that the sectors normally lack a sector duke, the combination of "rule" and "Legislation and enforcement are the prerogative ... of the sectors" asserts legislation at the sector AND imperial levels.

Again, you've no basis for your assertions of no sector authority. It's blackletter in S11.

 

[Dragoner]

The High Justice article in JTAS 14, makes Subsector Dukes into an analogous position of a Sheriff:

"2. The middle justice of the subsectors that is intended to protect relatively helpless societies on low technology worlds and to protect all societies from excessive damage by military actions. This is enforced by the police and military forces of the subsector duke, aided (if necessary) by lmperial military and naval forces."

It goes on in later sections, seems the basic Imperial unit is the sector (of which anti-piracy enforcement is tasked). Note though, if there is military action, if it remains within a subsector, it is the subsector Dukes duty to restrain it, something to think about with the 1138th.

 

[rancke]

Ewan: The only feudalism in canon IS the archdukes and their knights and baronets.

Except that appointing knights and baronets (or peers for that matter) is not limited to feudal systems. The Imperium as described in later material is not a feudal structure, it's an autocracy with pseudo-feudal trappings.

Marc misused the term; there is no subinfeudation, so barring the archdukes and their subinfeudated vassals, there is only one level of vassalage.

Not even one level. Imperial nobles are no more vassals of the emperor than the current Duke of Norfolk is a vassal of Queen Elizabeth II.

Given that canon expressly states legislation is a sector function, the sector dukes must be allowed to legislate; given that lesser dukes are "associated" but sector dukes "come to power" and "rule", I'd say that shoots your position in the foot.

Given that the subsectors is a level of interstellar government and given how incredibly awkward and counterproductive it would be if they were not allowed to legislate, and given that Ewan is quite right about sector dukes being first among equals rather than overlords of their fellow dukes, it's quite possible that the sentence you refer to were meant to say 'subsectors' rather than 'sectors'.

But whether it was meant that way originally or not, it's certainly the way it developed in later canon.


Hans

 

[rancke]

The bit about the Duchies being pocket empires would seem to be wrong. All Imperial Nobels are vassals of the Emperor not the Dukes. So a Dutchy isn't a Dutchy in the same was as it was in medieval sociaty.

A duchy is certainly not a duchy the same way it was in medieval society.

But Imperial nobles below the level of dukes do not rule anything. Barons and marquesses generally don't rule the worlds they are associated with because those worlds do not belong to the Emperor and so isn't his to hand out the rule over. Counts could theoretically rule the clusters they are associated with, but subsectors are said to be the lowest level of interstellar government, and a cluster government would be a lower level of interstellar government than a subsector, so they don't[*].

[*] Note about these categorical statements: I'm quite sure there are exception to most of the general statements canon makes about how the Imperium is run. There may even be a county somewhere that consists solely of worlds owned by the Emperor. There may be autonomous regions smaller than a subsector that isn't mentioned anywhere (yet). ​

Imperial nobles are sometimes planetary rulers as well (e.g. Delphine of Mora), but they are Imperial nobles because they are planetary rulers, not rulers because they are nobles.

Norris is an example of an Imperial duke who is not the ruler of the world he is associated with.



Hans

 

[rancke]

Again, you've no basis for your assertions of no sector authority. It's blackletter in S11.

Those are not mutually exclusive. It is indeed expressly stated in S11, but that doesn't mean there is no basis for doubting it in other parts of canon.

BTW. no one says that there is no sector authority. Just that legislation is not (as stated) a prerogative of the sectors and not of the duchies.


Hans

 

[Cryton]

For a laugh, look at what S4 says: "Nobles: lndividuals of the upper classes who perform little consistent function, but often have large amounts of ready money."

Saw that. LOL!

MT's canonicity is off topic in this thread. As is T4's, TNE's and T20's.

Thank you.

IO am just getting p to speed on this conversation, but it seems many have missed a key point.

Let's take one of the positions stated here:

Sub-sector Dukes ARE the Imperial government and speak and act with the absolute voice of the Imerium.

​

Further posit, the duke acts in the most honorable way, and absolutely administers Imperial law without deviation.

That is the most extreme argument to state that Piracy, interstellar warfare and all of the other bad things that people suggest requires "corruption" in the government to be tolerated.

I am not advocating or arguing against this belief, just using it as a point of reference to examine the actual administration of the local sub-sector.

Now some common issues -

Piracy: Limited acts of piracy take at least one week to be reported to the Duke's office. Let's say it takes 48 hours for a ship to be ready to jump to the system in question.

by the time that ship arrives, two weeks plus from the incident the pirates can be in any system withing 3 jumps of of that world.

If the pirate ship was correctly IDed the notice to other systems will arrive at the same time as the first ship, and before the ship arrives in the next system. With correct ID, AND the ship arriving DOCKING at an Imperal starport, the pirates are captured, end of story. Any of those is NOT true, and it takes resources to track them and capture them. Well within the resources of the Sub-sector, IF THOSE RESOURCES are idle and there are not other pressing concerns.

I would like to see the argument that a sub-sector has enough assets to spend months following up every act of piracy, or maintain enough presence in every single system that piracy is not practical any where.

Long term piracy: If pirates are operating repeatedly within a few systems, the need to take action means that resources WILL eventually be devoted to resolve the situation.

If it is a criminal operation, they will have resources of their own, and will take effort to root out, but likely the local duke WILL expend that effort, but all of those resources are tied up for a significant length of time.

But suppose it is a corporate war, only only ships of two corporations are involved. If those ships are the bulk if trade in that region, and it is damaging trade in general, the resources will be devoted to solve it.

But what if it is more restrined? They only pirate ships carring key shipments of the other company? Only enough to damage that lines ability to carry cargo, or their reputation. It on;ly marginally affects commerce overall, and hostilities do not extend to none combatants. The imperative to resolve the situation is reduced tremendously. If it continues long enough or escalates something must be done, otherwise it could be a VERY low priority, and likely handled addimistrativly, with sactions for specific events that endanger non-combatants, or slows trade significantly.

Trade wars: Even more so that corporate piracy, trade wars would have little effect beyond pricing to anyone but the belligerent entities. If it is wot\rlds, trade between the two would be affected, but if trade with surrounding systems were not materially affected there would be virtually no imperative for the sub-sector to put much effort into controlling the situation, unless something beyond the pale occures.

Warfare: Again, the need to devote resources will depend on how much non-combatants are involved. Suppose it required a couple of Imperal crusers to achieve peace. At that point the Cruisers would be sent. But they are NOT going to be able to show the flag and move on. The cruisers would be able to leave, but enough ships to maintain that peace, plus imperial troops and a cadre of diplomats and mid level bureaucrats from most of the imperial agencies to unravle and settle the dispute to the point it will not flair up again as soon as the long arm of the law leaves.

​

In all of these cases COMMUNICATION takes a bare minimum of 2 weeks, as does ANY action by the Duke. Using resources at his capital he can respond in roughly that same two weeks, plus whatever time it takes to decide on the action, and get the bureaucracies involved to send orders and or personnel.

further out than 4 parsecs adds at least a week transit time.

Any personnel or assets that are NOT on the capital take even more weeks to coordinate and and arrive.

Now, for small violations, the local bureaucracy can handle the situation administratively, and the Duke does not need to take any action. But if it requires his attention, the time alone is a MAJOR factor. If he can issue orders, and the local imperial elements can execute them without additional orders, or resources the situation can be dealt with in short order.

But if he has to figure out the situation, and devote additional resources, time explodes exponentially, and those resources have to be diverted to the crisis, leaving other issues hanging in the breeze.

There are situations that generate an automatic response. Weapons of mass destruction, major disruptions to trade, ANY damage to Imperial property.

But in those cases, the retribution would be institutional, with the Duke following struck rules with out too much discretion. The responce would almost certainly be massively disproportionate to the offence if it is to have any deterrent effect.

Add that Dukes have different priorities, personal relationships, goals and personal styles, and it is clear that Imperial law will be enforced inconsistently, and smaller breaches will be addressed in a prefuctionary manner. They will not pursued with zeal, unless there is a reason for it directly affect the Duke or other Imperial agencies.

If the sector wide corp is involved, they are going to have the cover to allow them much greater latitude that the same violations by a single free trader.

Note that NONE of this even considers Canon statements. They are irrelevant, as with the communications delays, even the local Duke is " ... a remote and centralized government...".

Local bureaucracy will be virtually completely autonomous as long as the situation is within their ability to handle.

If you add an element that local bureaucracies tend to not want to acknowledge that they can't handle the situation, ( not necessarily true, but bureaucracies as we know them today tend towards that reaction, with exceptions,) and reaction time at higher levels is extended even more, and the situation is that much worse when the appropriate resources arrive.

Just my opinion, but I think that all of these issues have to be considered.

A lot of what you have said has merit and is valid, and Im weighing your words carefully.

Aside from subsector dukes...

[There really is too little information about the Imperial system in early CT material to say much about how it works, so I'm abandoning the restriction of only going by what it says.]

I wish you wouldn't.