kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Hmmm, was just looking over all those CT LBB2 programs that require Navigator-x skill to get written, I would think there is a lucrative career for higher skill level navigators to consult on software creation.
Jump Tapes -- where does the concept first appear?
- Thread starter creativehum
- Start date
Hmmm, was just looking over all those CT LBB2 programs that require Navigator-x skill to get written, I would think there is a lucrative career for higher skill level navigators to consult on software creation.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
RE: The Self-Erasing Feature
We are all assuming that the cassettes self-erase upon use.
What if that's not the case? What if it is a safety issue, and the internal clock on the cassettes self-erase once the time of jump as passed?
I could definitely see that being the case.
Here's a question: What's to stop a Free Trader from sharing the data of a jump cassette with another ship?
There must be something about the cassettes that will not allow reading the data before use. Because, if you can read the data, then you can certainly transmit the data.
Or...maybe there's so few ships using cassettes that sharing data is not an issue even if it can be read.
We are all assuming that the cassettes self-erase upon use.
What if that's not the case? What if it is a safety issue, and the internal clock on the cassettes self-erase once the time of jump as passed?
I could definitely see that being the case.
Here's a question: What's to stop a Free Trader from sharing the data of a jump cassette with another ship?
There must be something about the cassettes that will not allow reading the data before use. Because, if you can read the data, then you can certainly transmit the data.
Or...maybe there's so few ships using cassettes that sharing data is not an issue even if it can be read.
creativehum
SOC-14 1K
First, sorry for so many grammar errors in that post. I was hit by a pickup truck couple weeks ago while going through crosswalk. My left wrist is fractured, typing is difficult, and I'm using dictation software. Still getting used to it and checking my work afterward.
Second, I too, am interested in digging deeper into the application of this rule in the same way you are. I think there's some fun to be had (using the space lane system from 1977) so that the generate program works safely for regular space lane routes because they are regularly updated. But jumps off the space lanes increase the odds of a misjump unless a cassette with data recorded within a certain time frame is used. There is a long window on the use of the data, but the more time that has passed the greater the DM for the misjump.
Thus, necessary adjustments in orbital motion of systems become like the tides, currents, and weather patterns ships had to worry about 250 years ago. And since that tightens the metaphor to Age of Sail, of course I love it.
So I would love to hear more about your rutter system!
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
If astrogation is more art than science, getting tapes from different sources means that they could have their own reliability ratings and appropriate price points.
nah. supposedly jump has been around the imperium for a thousand years. all the programming necessary was written centuries ago and likely is public domain dozens of times over. the only reason to write your own bootleg program is to do something that the official legitimate certified authorized good-citizen programming doesn't do. all kinds of campaigns, not to mention one-off adventures, in that, but you'd have to be careful not to break the otu.
"psst, hey. I gotta nav cassette to the planet of lonely sorority girls. you wannit? 50 creds."
Last edited:
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
In the OTU, try ten thousand years. A third of that was only J1, though.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
We had this discussion quite extensively in the Fleet thread. Those million credit program costs and software writing costs I think say otherwise.
On the original question: Jump Tapes--where does the concept first appear?
Did some research, and the concept of Jump tapes comes from those early CT '77 ships.
To be able to jump farther than Jump 1, generate your own course internally, and control the jump, you needed a Model 2 bis or larger computer.
Those that had Model 1 bis, or Model 2 computers were only capable of running the Jump (Required to Jump) and Navigate (Receives flight plans to control Jumps) Programs, but not the Generate (Generates flight plans internally) program due to CPU limits.
Note, that due to CPU limits and program sizes, no ship mounting a Model 1 could Jump farther than Jump 1, AND requires a course tape as it can not internally generate flight plans.
So there you go. Jump tapes come from a time when TL9 could build a J4 100 ton military courier, the 3rd Imperium was still simply the Imperium, and a dreadnought was 5000 Tons displacement and TL 15.
Cryton
Did some research, and the concept of Jump tapes comes from those early CT '77 ships.
To be able to jump farther than Jump 1, generate your own course internally, and control the jump, you needed a Model 2 bis or larger computer.
Those that had Model 1 bis, or Model 2 computers were only capable of running the Jump (Required to Jump) and Navigate (Receives flight plans to control Jumps) Programs, but not the Generate (Generates flight plans internally) program due to CPU limits.
Note, that due to CPU limits and program sizes, no ship mounting a Model 1 could Jump farther than Jump 1, AND requires a course tape as it can not internally generate flight plans.
So there you go. Jump tapes come from a time when TL9 could build a J4 100 ton military courier, the 3rd Imperium was still simply the Imperium, and a dreadnought was 5000 Tons displacement and TL 15.
Cryton
creativehum
SOC-14 1K
I'm not so sure about this.
I did some digging around just now. In both the 1977 and 1981 additions it is clear that the generate program need only run _before_ the jump is made.
The 1981 rules make this even more explicit.
That said, I know there were a couple versions of the 1977 rules. Perhaps your text is different than mine.
[Also, whether or not "cassettes" mean actual "tape" is involved I'll leave to others. In my setting the answer is no.]
Last edited:
BlackBat242
SOC-14 1K
Exactly - as you head to the jump point you are running Navigate+Maneuver.
At the jump point you shut down Maneuver and fire up Generate, leaving Navigate still running.
When the jump profile is complete the Generate program leaves the completed jump profile in the buffer and shuts down.
You then fire up Jump - still with Navigate running. The Jump program then takes the jump profile from the buffer and places it into its place in the program.
Then you hit the big red button, and Jump & Navigate take you through J-space to your destination (hopefully).
Note that programs that are only used occasionally (like Generate & Jump) can be not actually placed in the computer's hard memory, but can be on external media, for use "from the disk". This is very much in the mode of computer operations in the late 1970s - both the tape cassettes of the Commodore Pet-Vic20-etc/TRS-80/AppleII and the large reel tapes of mainframe computers were used to temporarily load programs into their computer only when needed, with the program being deleted from the computer's active memory as soon as it was finished.
Programs that never even loaded into the computer, but which ran directly from the storage media, came into existence as soon as the first random-access removable storage media were created (8" floppy disks, commercially available in 1971 as "read-only", 1973 as "read/write" - downsized to 5 1/4" in 1976, with 10 companies producing 5 1/4" disks & drives by 1978 - and to 3 1/2" in 1983).
Last edited:
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
It seems as if you could drop Maneuver as soon as you stop maneuvering. Since you re-enter N-Space at the same velocity, most captains don't wan't to take a long time to slow the ship and change direction. Plus, if anything is in your flight path, there's little you can do about it if at high velocity. You go boom.
But, one could use Generate before reaching the jump point, timing the jump for the moment the ship hits the jump point.
(The jump point being the exact moment in time and space where the ship jumps from Normal Space into Jump Space.)
Question: How long does it take to generate jump coordinates? How long is a ship vulnerable at the jump point, without maneuver?
I can't find a CT reference for it. MT sets it at an average of 17 minutes... (10.5 time roll average, DM-2 due to stat 5-9 and skill 1 presumption for tasks, 2 min increment.)
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
That would be in line with an LBB2 starship combat turn. Probably not a coincidence.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
Ah....good thought, that.
The closer thing to an answer to this I found in CT is the break off rules in HG (page 39). according to it, to jump you must accumulate 2 turns worth of power (at a PP rating equal to the jump desired), but it takes at least a turn (from decisión phase, when you decide to jump, to the pursuit phase, where jump is performed, if enough energy has been accumulated).
About vulnerability, the only thing that can affect it in those rules is that the power so used is not available for other uses (so, you'll probably have to turn off some weaonry, and maybe screens, are you're likely to lose agility too).
Frankymole
SOC-12
Thanks to stellar kinematics (star systems peculiar velocity, radial velocity and proper motion and all that) it would probably be lethal to use an old navigational plot cassette anyway.
Last edited:
