K'kree as a Threat

[T. Foster]

Originally posted by marginaleye:
How much do the K'kree know about genetic engineering and eugenics? For some reason, I find it very easy to envision the K'kree tinkering with their subject races to ensure that they eventually become submissive, generally slow-witted, obligate herbivores, satisfied with their place in the universe, and incapable of rebelling effectively.

This would tie in to the K'kree notion of the family as the basic unit of society quite nicely. Rebellion would be punished collectively -- the actual rebels would be executed, but all their relatives would be sterilized.

This is fully in line with the canonical k'kree -- JTAS 21 (the same issue that contained the k'kree 'interview' mentioned in Baron Saarthuran's earlier post) detailed the Girug'kagh, a k'kree client race that has been deliberately bred into a submissive mindset. It's the other side of the same coin as what the hivers do -- the k'kree create client races through force and breeding (and genetic engineering), the hivers through psychohistory and manipulation, but the end result is the same -- entire races that are 'naturally' subservient and obedient.

Another canonical instance of k'kree genetic engineering forms a significant plot-point of Lords of Thunder which I won't spoil here*, but suffice to say at least some k'kree are well aware of the possibilities of genetic engineering.


*if you really want to see the spoilers, you can look in this old thread.

 

[Shadowdancer]

I pity my players. They don't consider the K'kree a major threat yet. But that's only because they haven't encountered any yet.

 

[Liam Devlin]

consider also the K'Kree's organic based diet, and the types of worlds they'd inhabit. While subject races might occupy worlds inhoispitable to themselves, the TNE-Virus die off for K'Kree is slight compared to Humaniti, Vargr, and the Hivers.

folowing the posts so far, we have get-them-back-war of retribution in the offing once ship numbers become available beyond defense of their own systems.

As to the AI-thing,...The K'Kree are far from Human to the silicon creatures that make up AI-*humaniti-hating*Virus...a natural alliance of sorts comes to mind..<from AI-K'Kree perspective>.
Scary thoughts gents. Good stuff.
<i now withold my obligatory K'Kree BBQ rib advertisement on Lonestar resturaunt on the grounds of good taste, and serious discussion>

 

[Liam Devlin]

Another key area besides robotics (in combat drones) the K'Kree excel at would be terraforming/ eco-engineering (on limited scale) whole world ecologies towards herbivorism...
agreed on the geneering thing for submission...definitely a villainous race, worthy of study.
[obligatory advertisment for 101 ways to cook K'Kree witheld pending IDA inspection of said resturaunts]

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

How hard go the K'Kree get hit by Virus anyway? And are there any canonical references to what they're doing while the Imperium is going through the Rebellion and Hard Times?

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by Evil Dr Ganymede:
How hard go the K'Kree get hit by Virus anyway? And are there any canonical references to what they're doing while the Imperium is going through the Rebellion and Hard Times?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Well, given the MSP (maximum sustainable population) factors of the collapse, I imagine K'Kree as a race suffer fewer casualties given their propensity to inhabit/ terra form specific kinds of habitable worlds...and not to overpopulate that much. Worse comes to worse, they would sacrifice non K'Kree subject races in the Virus onslaught before themsleves.

Canonical references: late in Hard Times era (1126-1130) of MT..there was TNS mention of a large flotilla of K'Kree attacked by The Loyal/Ley sector fleet. Also MTJ#4 had the Lords of Thunder adventure in Gateway Sector..(now revisited 100+ years in past with T20's Gateway pdf product hittin the market.

Outside of those, not much on the K'Kree in that time period to my recollection..

 

[T. Foster]

There was also a TNE t-shirt that included a couple of creatures (in the upper right corner)that looked suspiciously like k'kree. Dave Nilsen later confirmed that these were k'kree, but cagily didn't explain why they were included on the t-shirt.

 

[Father Fletch]

If that picture is what I think it is, that would be K'kree battle dress...Eeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

I dunno... those things on the T-shirt look more like something out of a 'mars attacks' B-movie. I can't see anything remotely K'Kree-like about them (in fact, I can barely make out their shape at all. Looks more like a tortoise with long legs and clawed arms).

 

[Redleg58]

Originally posted by Father Fletch:
If that picture is what I think it is, that would be K'kree battle dress...Eeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!

The detail is a bit sketchy to say the least, guess it could be some sort of power armor.

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

Dr. Gwerf, Vargr Academic here again...

Consider friends (ruf) how readily Terran Herbivores are altered through husbandry and genetics... makes it even more understandable that they would (ruf) have developed a caste based society.

My particular areas of study focus on life support systems technology and genetics, and nine times out of ten I refer to what limited K'Kree sources on these topics. It is (ruf) astounding to me the advances they have made in these areas. The biosystems they employ are so good, you can hardly tell they are at work. Such a subtlety of design denotes an understanding of environmental tech far and above the (ruf) normal tree-hugging varieties we commonly see in terraforming and the like.

I often have nightmares of being (ruf) stomped on by them. perhaps it is best to admire them from afar...

 

[kafka47]

I certainly hope that the TNE picture does not show the K'kree in Battle Dress...remember this is a race which carries around Polearms just because they are effective killing devices, when used in the right hands (the warrior caste).

However, I do think that the K'kree would pose a threat to Charted Space in the TNE MkII universe, for no other reason but their Herd/Hive mentality. These buggers also prove quite ruthless and quite willing to use nuclear, chemical and biological weapons to exterminate unwanted inhabitants of a given planet. They also possess the blind hubris of humanti of taking things too far without seeing future consequences.

The only thing that I wonder how ahead are the K'kree in terms of deploying technological might. It would seem there is the restrait of only inhabiting the 2000 worlds and their conservatism.

Could it be the K'kree caste system is unravelling and a rebellion against the nobility is going on in K'kree space? With a virtually unintelligible language and only the Hivers to provide intelligence (as Imperial spies would be detected or converted or stomped out).

Could we trust that the Hivers are not trying to manipulate the situation into something for their own benefit?

Liam, I know that you know more than you are telling but, I will wait for TNE MkII (even another year). But, tell me at least, in the TNE world is there room for K'kree tartar?

 

[trader jim]

BBBBuuurrrppp....well thats one K'Kree whos not a threat....nice BBQ sauce....rattle, rattle, rattle....Darn!!! outta MAYO.....Wel,back to the Traveller GAME, GAME, GAME!!!!

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

Originally posted by trader jim:
BBBBuuurrrppp....well thats one K'Kree whos not a threat....nice BBQ sauce....rattle, rattle, rattle....Darn!!! outta MAYO.....Wel,back to the Traveller GAME, GAME, GAME!!!!

Jim, your trollish behaviour is becoming rather tiresome and annoying. If you don't want to take part in a serious discussion on a subject, fine. But please don't make stupid comments in threads where other people do take the discussion more seriously than you, it's just rude. If you want to recycle old jokes forever, go start another thread. Either that, or post when you're sober.

 

[marginaleye]

Has anyone ever seriously tried to design K'kree warships? As I see it, the claustrophobia of the K'kree ought to be an utterly crippling disadvantage when it comes to naval architecture -- bad for capital ships, and even worse for troop transports. While it's theoretically possible to envision some kind of psychological conditioning program to enable K'kree to pack themselves in as tightly as everyone else does, the K'kree are so unthinkingly conservative they wouldn't dare. And it's equally possible to envision starships operated primarily by members of non-claustrophobic slave-races (with a few K'kree officers on top) but the K'kree are so paranoid about slave uprisings they wouldn't dare do that, either.

In a fight between a K'kree warship and an Imperial (or Vargr, or Hiver) warship of roughly equal tonnage, I envision the K'kree warship losing almost every time -- kind of like putting jump-capable starships up against system defense boats, for somewhat similar reasons.

And aren't flattened spheres pretty vulnerable to meson-gun fire? And refusing to chop your hull up into lots and lots of little pressure-tight compartments is just begging for trouble. And refusing to travel low means no Frozen Watches, and makes the one really practical way to haul a lot of K'kree troops around (that is, unconsciously) impossible.

I haven't sat down and tried to design a bunch of K'kree ships to test this hypothesis, but I strongly suspect the K'kree aren't pushing to Spinward because they know that they would be fighting with one hoof tied behind their back if they tried. The Vargr *could* make *serious* inroads into the corward end of the Two Thousand Worlds, but (a) they're far too disorganized, and (b) that Rift gives the K'kree an easily-defended border.

Pity any non-starfaring cultures to Trailing of the Two Thousand Worlds, however...

 

[marginaleye]

Now, a slightly different question:

Can anyone see a way to portray the K'kree in a sympathetic (or at least less unfavorable) light? The very concept of a "villain race" is a little bit too "E. E. 'Doc' Smith" for me, but the way the K'kree are written now (monolithic, xenophobic, and conservative to the point of utter ossification) leaves one with very little choice in the matter, at least without departing from the canonical universe.

My question, what minimal chance to the canon can one make, to make "white hat" K'kree possible? I have my doubts, personally, about the whole "everyone sticks together, all the time" thing. Aren't there quite a few terrestrial herd animals, in which most males live basically solitary lives, and only the females, offspring, and a few dominant mature males stick together in cohesive herds? And getting to mate means competing with, and overthrowing, one of those dominant males. "Tweaking" the K'kree to follow that pattern would (a) create a group of restless, isolation-tolerant, and probably very ambitious individuals, and (b) create a force for change and competition in K'kree society.

The "public face of the Two Thousand Worlds" would be the ambitious, risk-taking young male drifter, out at the fringes, scrambling to get ahead, make his fortune, and prove himself (a bit like all those landless victims of Aslan primogeniture).

 

[marginaleye]

Re. the K'kree and the Virus:

The K'kree should get smacked very, very, very hard.

Why? Because they're so darn centralized and homogeneous. Everything in the Two Thousand Worlds is highly standardized, and has been for centuries. Yes, K'kree technology is pretty alien, so it might take a while for a Virus strain capable of infecting K'kree computers to develop, but once such a strain does develop, it should proliferate very, very rapidly. Like an agricultural pathogen, in a monocultured field of susceptible crops...

Yes, the K'kree like to inhabit naturally hospitable planets, so the level of die-off won't be as high (no nightmare situations, with tens of billions stuck of inhospitable hell-planets with no life-support systems), but as a technological society they would be in deep, deep, deep trouble. Lots of nice, hospitable planets, with plenty of TL-4 (or so) K'kree inhabitants, and Virus more-or-less ruling the space in-between.

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

Please Lords,

could one of you clever fellows please program a "trader jim" Java Applet? It should be simple, it doesnt have to have any real content or apparent purpose, but MUST say...

1. something about coffee juice (zzz)
2. Woo Hoo (arg)
3. something about "bunnies" (disturbing)
4. burp
5. perhaps "woo hoo" again...

It should save time for people who crave pointless inane commentary, what?

 

[trader jim]

lets see...trollish, tiresom, annoying, stupid, rude, old jokes...and i think i was just called a drunk....hhhmmnnnn....hey!! I think I was just CHASTIZED!!!!

and now a Java Applet....wow, I am Honored!!!

Woe is me!!, Woe is me!!, I am so embarrised.....
NAaaa....nope...not a chance...keep trying gents,
the word gents is used very loosly...

all over a kree thing

name calling??? it figures

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by marginaleye:
Re. the K'kree and the Virus:

The K'kree should get smacked very, very, very hard.

Why? Because they're so darn centralized and homogeneous. Everything in the Two Thousand Worlds is highly standardized, and has been for centuries. Yes, K'kree technology is pretty alien, so it might take a while for a Virus strain capable of infecting K'kree computers to develop, but once such a strain does develop, it should proliferate very, very rapidly. Like an agricultural pathogen, in a monocultured field of susceptible crops...

Yes, the K'kree like to inhabit naturally hospitable planets, so the level of die-off won't be as high (no nightmare situations, with tens of billions stuck of inhospitable hell-planets with no life-support systems), but as a technological society they would be in deep, deep, deep trouble. Lots of nice, hospitable planets, with plenty of TL-4 (or so) K'kree inhabitants, and Virus more-or-less ruling the space in-between.

_________________________________________________
Hmm..smacked hard..somewhat I think. Not all will be reduced to TL-4 though...
THINK MARGINLEYE of this..
example--in TNE we have an example of a Droyne computer infected (SAG/GDW)-"Operation Cosmic fire", and it assumes a droyne like personality..would it stand to reason a K'kree automated infected system could do the same?
And become a "dominant form" of hierarchical herd leader? I see a trend of alliance with the Ai-life form known as Virus, but even more insidious, a possible overlordship in the liege to vassal role..