And "The War to End All Wars" was fought at the beginning of the XX Century.
For that matter, the F-35 comes into service several years after the F/A-22, and there will be a cockpit in that plane as well...
K'kree as a Threat
- Thread starter Father Fletch
- Start date
For that matter, the F-35 comes into service several years after the F/A-22, and there will be a cockpit in that plane as well...
jchurchill
SOC-12
Are all of you saying that "the only good kree is a dead kree?"
Are all of you saying that "the only good kree is a dead kree?"
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I'm not. The K'kree do have good qualities such as their instintive feeling for each other.
In a way you can equally say the only good human is a dead human as all humans also have an instintive bent toward evil. Instincts can be overcome, for the ability to overcome one's instincts is part and parcel of being a sophant. No one can completly overcome those instincts but neither is anyone completly bound by them. We are not mere robots. The K'kree mentioned earliar who trampled the woman and child did not HAVE to do so-he chose to, however much he was "encouraged" to by nature and nurture.
Moreover the canon does talk about complexities. The possibility of a lost K'kree being befriended by a humaniti. Or K'kree living in minor states separate from the two-thousand worlds. Or others.
It is not true that the only good K'kree is a dead K'kree. It is however true that they are a threat and sometimes it is necessary to increase the number of dead K'kree in self defense. When this is done it should be done under the same limits that are given for warfare against Aslan, Vargr, or other Humaniti.
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I'm not. The K'kree do have good qualities such as their instintive feeling for each other.
In a way you can equally say the only good human is a dead human as all humans also have an instintive bent toward evil. Instincts can be overcome, for the ability to overcome one's instincts is part and parcel of being a sophant. No one can completly overcome those instincts but neither is anyone completly bound by them. We are not mere robots. The K'kree mentioned earliar who trampled the woman and child did not HAVE to do so-he chose to, however much he was "encouraged" to by nature and nurture.
Moreover the canon does talk about complexities. The possibility of a lost K'kree being befriended by a humaniti. Or K'kree living in minor states separate from the two-thousand worlds. Or others.
It is not true that the only good K'kree is a dead K'kree. It is however true that they are a threat and sometimes it is necessary to increase the number of dead K'kree in self defense. When this is done it should be done under the same limits that are given for warfare against Aslan, Vargr, or other Humaniti.
K'kree as objects of pity?
I'm preparing to run Lords of Thunder in a few weeks, and I've had a strange thought. During the PC's journey to Kolan, running guns to Force Bravo, they discover the Castran Marauders are delivering dozens of kidnapped K'kree to the covert camps on Kolan for "live training exercises". The K'kree have been hijacked, drugged, forced into cold sleep, then released into a "reservation" in a remote wilderness area on Kolan. They have instructions to cooperate in the "exercises", to ensure the safety of a number of their associates who have been kept in cold sleep.
Force Bravo releases the youngest, strongest captive K'kree on the reservation for the purpose of training its troops to fight against real K'kree in battle. Nearly any captive K'kree can serve this purpose, as all K'kree receive some military training. As many K'kree as possible are kept alive on the reservation, in an effort to keep them all as sane as possible, while only a few hostages are kept in cold sleep--usually high-status wives, if they can be identified as such. K'kree casualties of the training exercises are never seen again by the herd, and no one in Force Bravo will speak of what becomes of them. insert your stupid jokes here
I've set this up as a "hunter becomes the hunted" scenario to make the PC's wonder about the K'kree. But I'm wondering if it's even workable. Is it possible to control a small herd of K'kree like this at gunpoint, holding the herdboss' wives hostage, or do you think they'd all just go berserk?
XO
I'm preparing to run Lords of Thunder in a few weeks, and I've had a strange thought. During the PC's journey to Kolan, running guns to Force Bravo, they discover the Castran Marauders are delivering dozens of kidnapped K'kree to the covert camps on Kolan for "live training exercises". The K'kree have been hijacked, drugged, forced into cold sleep, then released into a "reservation" in a remote wilderness area on Kolan. They have instructions to cooperate in the "exercises", to ensure the safety of a number of their associates who have been kept in cold sleep.
Force Bravo releases the youngest, strongest captive K'kree on the reservation for the purpose of training its troops to fight against real K'kree in battle. Nearly any captive K'kree can serve this purpose, as all K'kree receive some military training. As many K'kree as possible are kept alive on the reservation, in an effort to keep them all as sane as possible, while only a few hostages are kept in cold sleep--usually high-status wives, if they can be identified as such. K'kree casualties of the training exercises are never seen again by the herd, and no one in Force Bravo will speak of what becomes of them. insert your stupid jokes here
I've set this up as a "hunter becomes the hunted" scenario to make the PC's wonder about the K'kree. But I'm wondering if it's even workable. Is it possible to control a small herd of K'kree like this at gunpoint, holding the herdboss' wives hostage, or do you think they'd all just go berserk?
XO
Xavier,Originally posted by Xavier Onassis:
I've set this up as a "hunter becomes the hunted" scenario to make the PC's wonder about the K'kree. But I'm wondering if it's even workable. Is it possible to control a small herd of K'kree like this at gunpoint, holding the herdboss' wives hostage, or do you think they'd all just go berserk?
I'd expect the K'Kree would berserk - after all individual lives aren't as improtant to them as the survival of the herd as a whole. They are taught to assume that their death will somehow help the whole herd survive - with an awareness that the herd is more than just the K'Kree gathered there.
Isn't the point that you want the herd that is out of coldsleep to fight? Given that is the case, there isn't much you can do to control them ...
There is a moral point here too - Force Bravo is involved in the worst sort of mistreatment of other sentients', and this should raise the hackles of your players. I assume that is what you want your PCs to think about? If so, then it would be effective to also have one of the captured K'Kree be an NPC the players have encountered in the past - perhaps one of those rare K'Kree who is tolerant of meat-eaters, who has acted as a broker or been a customer for the PCs.
Xavier,Originally posted by Falkayn:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Xavier Onassis:
I've set this up as a "hunter becomes the hunted" scenario to make the PC's wonder about the K'kree. But I'm wondering if it's even workable. Is it possible to control a small herd of K'kree like this at gunpoint, holding the herdboss' wives hostage, or do you think they'd all just go berserk?
I'd expect the K'Kree would berserk - after all individual lives aren't as improtant to them as the survival of the herd as a whole. They are taught to assume that their death will somehow help the whole herd survive - with an awareness that the herd is more than just the K'Kree gathered there.
Isn't the point that you want the herd that is out of coldsleep to fight? Given that is the case, there isn't much you can do to control them ...
There is a moral point here too - Force Bravo is involved in the worst sort of mistreatment of other sentients', and this should raise the hackles of your players. I assume that is what you want your PCs to think about? If so, then it would be effective to also have one of the captured K'Kree be an NPC the players have encountered in the past - perhaps one of those rare K'Kree who is tolerant of meat-eaters, who has acted as a broker or been a customer for the PCs. </font>[/QUOTE]Interesting plot twists, there, Falkayn! However, I've definitely got to give some thought to how a captive herd of K'kree might be controlled--I'd like this to be an ongoing situation, not a one-shot free-for-all. Then the players can figure out what to do after they find out about it. As monstrous as Force Bravo's treatment of their K'kree captives is, the PC's will have to consider the nature of the K'kree, as well. Because if the Lords of Thunder ever find out about the incident, the entire world of Kolan will probably be a radioactive wasteland.
Such a dilemma....
XO
Hmmm ... you'd ideally want a bunch of K'Kree that had never heard of the 2000 worlds, but still had the right skills/mindset to be good target practice. So psychological manipulation of the K'Kree would be a good thing for Force Bravo to be able to do (have a Hiver there?
)If the K'Kree couldn't remember mich abotu what was going on, then they wouldn't have a reason to go suicidal (i.e. if they thoguht that this little bit of herd was all there was for them to care about).
The other easy solution would be to have their local steppelord tell them they have to fight the humans and not suicide ... of course getting the steppelord to agree to do so would be difficult (especially as you can't get him alone for very long - cue Hiver music again?
).The K’kree are a dangerous lot, no doubt about it. In the “Lords of Thunder” the K’kree stir-up (manipulate) a civil war. Did they learn this from earlier conflicts with the Hivers? The K’kree set long-term goals and patiently pursue those goals. What tactics have the K’kree learned in their dealings with the 3I? Nuking a planet into glass is good for settling old grudges but doesn’t provide any positive PR. IMTU the K’kree are a little subtler.
I took “The Cattle drive of Death” by Ran Targas from the "Adventures" section, and added a K’kree commando team leaving the stricken freighter to rendezvous with a K’kree trade delegation cruiser. The trade delegates state they have come to the famine-stricken planet to offer economic alternatives a non-vegetarian society. They also want to extend favorable trade status in exchange for the planet switching its allegiance. Why shouldn’t the PCs be hearing more stories of K’kree vessels showing up to help non-aligned worlds in times of need?
I took “The Cattle drive of Death” by Ran Targas from the "Adventures" section, and added a K’kree commando team leaving the stricken freighter to rendezvous with a K’kree trade delegation cruiser. The trade delegates state they have come to the famine-stricken planet to offer economic alternatives a non-vegetarian society. They also want to extend favorable trade status in exchange for the planet switching its allegiance. Why shouldn’t the PCs be hearing more stories of K’kree vessels showing up to help non-aligned worlds in times of need?
DED
SOC-12
I realize you're all trying to have a serious conversation about K'kree. I won't add any jokes but I will try to explain what the joking is all about.
Yes, "militant herbivores" does come across as an oxymoron to many people. Hence it's a set up for jokes. It's hard for people to picture a herd of cows running around with guns. "Far Side" comics instantly spring to mind.
Another factor involved, is that humor helps people conquer fear. Given how everyone here agrees that the K'kree display some truly horrendous qualities (no qualms about genocide for instance), it is not surprising that people would want to make fun of them. By picturing K'kree as BBQ fare, they ability to inspire fear is reduced.
As a historical example, think about all of the racist jokes and cartoons targetted at the Japanese during WW2. While ugly and base, by making fun of the Japanese in this crass way, it helped American G.I.'s overcome their fear of an enemy who all but obliterated the American Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor.
Now with my psychoanalysis complete, those of you who aren't part of the Bearers of the Flame playtest will be interested to know that the K'kree play a major part in the history of Charted Space between 1202 - 1248. I'm not sure what's exactly public knowledge, but I believe that it's safe for me to say that the K'kree are part of the Dominate, a post-Rebellion faction striving to make Charted Space theirs alone. While this conflict is resolved by 1248, the Dominate is by no means vanquished. Of course, there's no reason why a GM couldn't make his players play through the Dominate War.
Yes, "militant herbivores" does come across as an oxymoron to many people. Hence it's a set up for jokes. It's hard for people to picture a herd of cows running around with guns. "Far Side" comics instantly spring to mind.
Another factor involved, is that humor helps people conquer fear. Given how everyone here agrees that the K'kree display some truly horrendous qualities (no qualms about genocide for instance), it is not surprising that people would want to make fun of them. By picturing K'kree as BBQ fare, they ability to inspire fear is reduced.
As a historical example, think about all of the racist jokes and cartoons targetted at the Japanese during WW2. While ugly and base, by making fun of the Japanese in this crass way, it helped American G.I.'s overcome their fear of an enemy who all but obliterated the American Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor.
Now with my psychoanalysis complete, those of you who aren't part of the Bearers of the Flame playtest will be interested to know that the K'kree play a major part in the history of Charted Space between 1202 - 1248. I'm not sure what's exactly public knowledge, but I believe that it's safe for me to say that the K'kree are part of the Dominate, a post-Rebellion faction striving to make Charted Space theirs alone. While this conflict is resolved by 1248, the Dominate is by no means vanquished. Of course, there's no reason why a GM couldn't make his players play through the Dominate War.
speaking of cows with guns
http://www.theflasharchive.com/f/f-50.htm
http://www.theflasharchive.com/f/f-50.htm
Still, I would fear much more the cyborgized bio geneered K'kree that Dave has alluded to that live in the Black Curtain.
But, I wonder what the K'kree would do if the Imperium or the Vargr were not in the way of expansion. As a conservative force predominates in their society would they be like China today...trying to restore the Ancient Kingdoms by dipoplomacy when failing then just engage in active warfare.
But, I wonder what the K'kree would do if the Imperium or the Vargr were not in the way of expansion. As a conservative force predominates in their society would they be like China today...trying to restore the Ancient Kingdoms by dipoplomacy when failing then just engage in active warfare.
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
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