Mechs in traveller idea

[lightsenshi]

Let me toss a nickel worth in here.

Consider this: which do you think people are going to be more afraid of? a) a large tracked vehicle or b) a large walking robot.

 

[Ran Targas]

Originally posted by Casey:
Yep! The old Mecha Press articles which I mentioned and linked to a page ago

Sorry Casey, didn't realize you already researched that topic so effectively; please excuse my hubris.

Light, I see your point BUT consider what happens after your squad of battle hardened infantry fire anti-tank weapons at each approaching target:

OGRE - rounds impact on meter thick armor plated hull; in response, an anti-personnel cannon slews and fires at your position, vaporizing several cubic meters of earth

MECH - rounds impact on any number of unarmored joints; either rendering the mech an immobile weapons platform, or destroying the targetting ability of a major weapon, or ripping a whole limb off. The mech fires back, now unable to compensate for recoil, and falls to the ground.

The average civilian will run from either; a professionally trained soldier will stand his ground and deploy his weapons against the enemy's weak points.

 

[signless]

I never really liked the "giant anthropomorphic robot" mechs. Instead, I used mostly the "egg on legs" mechs. Flattened, spherical weapons platforms on two legs. In urban combat they'd be much more flexible than a wheeled/treaded tank. Their maneuverability would make them more difficult targets, and give them better access to a rubble-strewn battlefield. I think they'd be pretty intimidating to light infantry.

 

[Nurd_boy]

but again (as mentioned in an earlier thread..or was it this one...)
once you have the tech to develop antigrav, legs become useless (unless the AG is used to null some weight).

..AG TANKS, maneoverability of a modern assault helo, armored better than a modern MBT, high tech weps like plasma or fusion and speed or a jet AND can drop from orbit AND ingores alot of terrain hazards, seems to me that would make mechs obsolete.

...ofcourse wharehouse lumping and construction is different than military, i'd think civilian mechs could be around longer before becoming obsolete...

ok, so anybody have a tech timeline for mech development, peak and decline? ...start at say: 8(ish) peaks at 11(ish), declines by 13(ish)?....

any thoughts?

 

[Spiderfish]

Thats not strictly true Ran.

If it was the first time I had ever seen a twenty foot giant robot I would probably give bugging out some serious thought.

 

[Ran Targas]

^ Now grav tanks (i.e. Renegade Legion) are a much better solution to the armor problem than mechs and are canon (as shown on the cover of FFS).

Keep in mind that whatever type of advantage you manage to gain over your enemy, it will be short lived; before long they will have developed similar technology or tactics to exploit any weakness in your latest gadget. Where there are mechs, there are weapons and units there to destroy them. Grav tanks face aircraft with heavy weapons or gravity wave detonated mines. Ogres face en masse attacks from high speed, lightly armored vehicles. It all is a wash in the end.

So have your mechs if you want them, just don't let them wander the battlefield like some sort of god of war.

 

[Nurd_boy]

mech blitz....fast in, hit hard, move on.

keep the enemy unblanced.

 

[mike wightman]

Years ago I tried to incorporate mechs from Battle Tech into Renegade Legion: Centurion.

The Grav Tanks won - every time - due to their heavier armour, weapons, and superior speed.

The Infantry squads could take out a mech most of the time.

I concluded that mixing the games was unbalanced due to the superior tech of the RL univers (which is more similar to Traveller than BT is IMHO).

 

[lightsenshi]

Originally posted by Spiderfish:
If it was the first time I had ever seen a twenty foot giant robot I would probably give bugging out some serious thought.

Exactly my point.

 

[Ran Targas]

^ Hey, I agree, and I guess that's the reason for 'Imperial walkers spotted on the north ridge'. The psychological affect of 25m tall war machines can't be denied. But to veteran troops with the knowledge/experience of fighting/defeating them, the shock value is reduced dramatically.

 

[Spiderfish]

I know what you mean.

If you believe something is undefeatable it might as well be.

 

[slyen2002]

almost done it!

just a little longer...

by the way i wonder who would win: a BOLO or an OGRE? i do want to incorparate OGREs into my universe as experimental weapons because the tech level is low enough?

by the way one reason why the Grav Tank would win is because of its weaponary, the same consiquences would happen if tech level 15 infintry went up agenst a tech level 8 mech.

 

[Nurd_boy]

Originally posted by slyen2:
by the way i wonder who would win: a BOLO or an OGRE? i do want to incorparate OGREs into my universe as experimental weapons because the tech level is low enough?

ORGRE's are really big, i've read the books, bolos are large, but still a fraction of an orgre...a bolo unit vs a singular 0gre...my monies on the bolo unit.

one on one...

the orgre

IMHO

 

[slyen2002]

ok be cause ive heard that bolos are really really big.

so i was thiking that an Ogre could be more or less a precursor Bolo.

 

[Nurd_boy]

to be 'nit-picky' the two universes (universi?) really arn't compairable...it's like those trekkie fans that keep wanting to include pernese dragons (anne mccaffery) or including puppeteers (from ringworld)...or better, a battlestar vs stardestroyer...

bolos are really big true, orgres are REALLY big...like a capitol ship on treads.

i'm gonna havta stay with my previous....

 

[clementk]

From the original designer's notes for Ogre:

"Keith Laumer's Bolo stories hit closer to the mark for me, in that he was making the same basic assumption: big, invulnerable, intelligent supertanks. But his Bolos are just too darn big." <shrugs>

Casey

 

[Nurd_boy]

I read laumers bolo books, and played Orgre going back to that little zip-lock baggie version....

yes, bolos are big, smart ai supertanks...but my impression is the ogre isn't as free thinking, is bigger and tends to be over armed.

 

[Ran Targas]

Originally posted by Nurd_boy:
or better, a battlestar vs stardestroyer...

I don't know, I'd like to see a battlestar duke it out with a star destroyer; seems like a pretty equal pairing.

As Steve Jackson admits to being fascinated by the concept of a Bolo, and the descriptions of the capabilities (defensive and offensive) of both are similar, you'd have to assume the fight would be a juggernaut slugfest.

Can a 2m diameter Hellbore cannon firing fusion plasma at nearly the speed of light penetrate the nuke proof armor of an Ogre Mk VI? Who knows?

Can an Ogre firing all its missiles and batteries simultaneously create a crater large enough to swallow a Bolo Mk XXXIII? Who knows?

But it would be one hell of a fight!

 

[Nurd_boy]

lets not forget...
ogres in the games i've played have been solitary units....
bolos in the books (if I remember right) work best together as a unit...

ofcourse, multiple ogres verses a bolo unit...that changes the dynamics.

yup, it would be a hecka slugfest....

 

[slyen2002]

HaHA

this sounds like a job for the Ogre Mk VII. never built but desigend.

or a new model of Isreail design (the Golam was potant for the precurser of the Mk III)

if you want to know what these are look at the GURPS OGRE book (the only GURPS book i have availiable to me).

one thing is a Bolo may win if the sizes where off because each new Ogre model was bigger than the last and they didn't carry much in the way of weaponry, even for the Mk VI