More Damage Thoughts

[Supplement Four]

I posted my enhanced CT damage system in this thread, but I've got a few other thoughts about damage that I've been mulling over.

Care to "mull" with me?

What do you think about this...








What if damage from Minor Wounds healed rapidly?

What if, once per CT 15-second combat round, a character healed 1 point to the damaged physical stat of his choosing?

This could represent "fatigue" and "taking a breather" during combat.

The game would still be deadly (because healing 1 point per combat round isn't going to help you that much if you are hit every round by a weapon doing 3D damage).

And, I'm thinking that this "healing rate" of 4 points per minute (1 point every 15 seconds) would cease being an option if the character takes a serious wound (two stats at zero).




An alternative to a straight award of 1 point per combat round is to base the "fatigue healing rate" on the character's END score. Those with higher END would heal faster than those with lower END.

I'm not quite sure how I'd implement or determine this...I'm just thinking out of the box right now.




I'm not so keen on this other idea (because it causes a roll to be made each round the character is wounded), but another way to handle a healing rate like this is to base it on an END check. "Roll 3D for END or less. If successful, you heal 1 point this round."

Don't like the roll part, but do like the fact that characters with higher END will heal quicker--and a player can't always count on getting the healing point each round because he might brick the END check.








I kinda like this idea, but I haven't thought it all-the-way through, yet.

Thoughts?

 

[Supplement Four]

I posted my enhanced CT damage system in this thread, but I've got a few other thoughts about damage that I've been mulling over.

Care to "mull" with me?

What do you think about this...








What if damage from Minor Wounds healed rapidly?

What if, once per CT 15-second combat round, a character healed 1 point to the damaged physical stat of his choosing?

This could represent "fatigue" and "taking a breather" during combat.

The game would still be deadly (because healing 1 point per combat round isn't going to help you that much if you are hit every round by a weapon doing 3D damage).

And, I'm thinking that this "healing rate" of 4 points per minute (1 point every 15 seconds) would cease being an option if the character takes a serious wound (two stats at zero).




An alternative to a straight award of 1 point per combat round is to base the "fatigue healing rate" on the character's END score. Those with higher END would heal faster than those with lower END.

I'm not quite sure how I'd implement or determine this...I'm just thinking out of the box right now.




I'm not so keen on this other idea (because it causes a roll to be made each round the character is wounded), but another way to handle a healing rate like this is to base it on an END check. "Roll 3D for END or less. If successful, you heal 1 point this round."

Don't like the roll part, but do like the fact that characters with higher END will heal quicker--and a player can't always count on getting the healing point each round because he might brick the END check.








I kinda like this idea, but I haven't thought it all-the-way through, yet.

Thoughts?

 

[Golan2072]

I don't think that the human body is capable of healing damage - even relatively minor bruises - in the span of less than a minute. Sure, a few superficial cuts and bruises would heal in a few hours, but not in 15 seconds.

An alternative is to allow a successful Medic check to heal all (or a major portion) of the minor wounds, representing the application of antiseptics, bandages and painkillers.

 

[Golan2072]

I don't think that the human body is capable of healing damage - even relatively minor bruises - in the span of less than a minute. Sure, a few superficial cuts and bruises would heal in a few hours, but not in 15 seconds.

An alternative is to allow a successful Medic check to heal all (or a major portion) of the minor wounds, representing the application of antiseptics, bandages and painkillers.

 

[atpollard]

I like the link between Endurance and Healing, but drop the entire roll portion and just set a fixed rate like END / 3 per minute to create a range of healing from 1 point per minute (END 3) to 5 points per minute (END 15).

If you really want complexity, base the healing rate on the CURRENT END score and keep the fractions. Minor damage heals quickly (just shake it off) and serious damage heals slowly.

[For the record, what is the official rate of healing in the game?]

 

[atpollard]

I like the link between Endurance and Healing, but drop the entire roll portion and just set a fixed rate like END / 3 per minute to create a range of healing from 1 point per minute (END 3) to 5 points per minute (END 15).

If you really want complexity, base the healing rate on the CURRENT END score and keep the fractions. Minor damage heals quickly (just shake it off) and serious damage heals slowly.

[For the record, what is the official rate of healing in the game?]

 

[Whipsnade]

I suppose if you 'port Wolverine into Traveller it could work...

Just kidding!


Bill

 

[Whipsnade]

I suppose if you 'port Wolverine into Traveller it could work...

Just kidding!


Bill

 

[sgbrown]

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
I suppose if you 'port Wolverine into Traveller it could work...

Just kidding!


Bill

Cool idea - Wolverine would even be explainable by ultra high (TL?) medical tech alone - as a gene manipulated cyborg (don't forget the metal bones.)

 

[sgbrown]

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
I suppose if you 'port Wolverine into Traveller it could work...

Just kidding!


Bill

Cool idea - Wolverine would even be explainable by ultra high (TL?) medical tech alone - as a gene manipulated cyborg (don't forget the metal bones.)

 

[aramis]

A lot depends upon what one thinks of damage as...

I don't like the "fast heal" for the simple reason of it implies that not all damage to attributes is trauma.

Note that half of Minor or Superficial wound damage goes away with treatment under MT anyway... or after 10 minutes rest/unconsciousness.

CT only lists this effect for unconscious (MT's minor wound) characters. (TTB, 36 & 47), but allows total recovery of "superficial" wounds (No atts to 0) with either 3 days rest or 30 minutes treatment by an individual with medical 1+

I'd suggest allowing the half-damage recovery to superficial wounds with medical 0 and 3 minutes of treatment, taking 3 days to recover the rest...

 

[aramis]

A lot depends upon what one thinks of damage as...

I don't like the "fast heal" for the simple reason of it implies that not all damage to attributes is trauma.

Note that half of Minor or Superficial wound damage goes away with treatment under MT anyway... or after 10 minutes rest/unconsciousness.

CT only lists this effect for unconscious (MT's minor wound) characters. (TTB, 36 & 47), but allows total recovery of "superficial" wounds (No atts to 0) with either 3 days rest or 30 minutes treatment by an individual with medical 1+

I'd suggest allowing the half-damage recovery to superficial wounds with medical 0 and 3 minutes of treatment, taking 3 days to recover the rest...

 

[Supplement Four]

My thinking, in orginating this thread, lies along these lines....









No Stat At Zero: This is lite damage. Fatigue. Minor Wound. When you get into a scuffle with someone, you're winded, drained, the longer the combat goes. That's what's being represented here. Maybe it's lite scrapes. Maybe it's a sore part of your body that heals quickly. But, you're reaction time is decreased, and you are more vulnerable to more serious damage. This type of damage also heals very quickly, though: It heals at a rate of 1 point (applied at the damaged character's choice) per 15 second combat round. When a character gets into scuffle, he'll be winded. But, if he rests just a little bit, he'll be good as new.








One Stat At Zero: Stats going to zero are our indications that the character has been damaged more heavily. One stat at zero means that the character has somehow been incapacitated. Maybe it's shock from a grenade explosion. Maybe it's being beat senseless--or even unconsicous. Maybe it's a stun that only lasts for a round. This damage level is also a Minor Wound, but healing changes. Now, it changes to healing of 1 point (defender's choice) per minute. This type of damage could also be a cut, or a sprain, or a bad bruise.

Also note that (maybe) a game mechanic could be used where the negative number of a stat that went to zero is recorded. A DEX-3, for example, hit with 7 points of damage, would be set at a level of -4.

Since the healing for this type of damage is one point per minute, then the amount of time the character is unconscious/stunned/incapacitated is equal to the amount of time it takes to heal this damage. So, the character in this example would become functional again (snapped out of the stun or conscious again) in 5 minutes (the length of time it takes -4 to be raised to 1).








Two Stats At Zero: The indication that the character is seriously wounded comes when two stats go to zero. This Serious Wound indicates when the character is actually shot, or stabbed, or has a bone broken, bad concussion, internal injuries, bad burns, etc. And, healing with this type of damage will mirror real life (it will take a long time--shorter if medical care is available).









Anyway, those are my thoughts with this "heal-1-point-per-round" idea. It would only apply to damage to characters before any stats go to zero.

I'm just figuring right now.

 

[Supplement Four]

My thinking, in orginating this thread, lies along these lines....









No Stat At Zero: This is lite damage. Fatigue. Minor Wound. When you get into a scuffle with someone, you're winded, drained, the longer the combat goes. That's what's being represented here. Maybe it's lite scrapes. Maybe it's a sore part of your body that heals quickly. But, you're reaction time is decreased, and you are more vulnerable to more serious damage. This type of damage also heals very quickly, though: It heals at a rate of 1 point (applied at the damaged character's choice) per 15 second combat round. When a character gets into scuffle, he'll be winded. But, if he rests just a little bit, he'll be good as new.








One Stat At Zero: Stats going to zero are our indications that the character has been damaged more heavily. One stat at zero means that the character has somehow been incapacitated. Maybe it's shock from a grenade explosion. Maybe it's being beat senseless--or even unconsicous. Maybe it's a stun that only lasts for a round. This damage level is also a Minor Wound, but healing changes. Now, it changes to healing of 1 point (defender's choice) per minute. This type of damage could also be a cut, or a sprain, or a bad bruise.

Also note that (maybe) a game mechanic could be used where the negative number of a stat that went to zero is recorded. A DEX-3, for example, hit with 7 points of damage, would be set at a level of -4.

Since the healing for this type of damage is one point per minute, then the amount of time the character is unconscious/stunned/incapacitated is equal to the amount of time it takes to heal this damage. So, the character in this example would become functional again (snapped out of the stun or conscious again) in 5 minutes (the length of time it takes -4 to be raised to 1).








Two Stats At Zero: The indication that the character is seriously wounded comes when two stats go to zero. This Serious Wound indicates when the character is actually shot, or stabbed, or has a bone broken, bad concussion, internal injuries, bad burns, etc. And, healing with this type of damage will mirror real life (it will take a long time--shorter if medical care is available).









Anyway, those are my thoughts with this "heal-1-point-per-round" idea. It would only apply to damage to characters before any stats go to zero.

I'm just figuring right now.

 

[aramis]

Then the heal 1 per round makes sense for your definition of "damage"

I know my entire player base would look at you funny, and walk out. They expect "damage" to be trauma, whether blunt or otherwise.

I can understand the ideas, but I myself reject the definitions you use simply because they make describing damage in-play nigh-impossible. Until you know WHAT level of damage, inherently post-combat in CT/MT/T4, any description may be trumped by the application of later damage.

So for me, damage needs to represent tissue injury. I can see your direction... I just can't go that way.

 

[aramis]

Then the heal 1 per round makes sense for your definition of "damage"

I know my entire player base would look at you funny, and walk out. They expect "damage" to be trauma, whether blunt or otherwise.

I can understand the ideas, but I myself reject the definitions you use simply because they make describing damage in-play nigh-impossible. Until you know WHAT level of damage, inherently post-combat in CT/MT/T4, any description may be trumped by the application of later damage.

So for me, damage needs to represent tissue injury. I can see your direction... I just can't go that way.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Aramis:
So for me, damage needs to represent tissue injury. I can see your direction... I just can't go that way.

I'm not really asking you to, William. Just thinking outloud.

Your traditional way of doing damage has its problems, too. (One of the things that lead me down this path to begin with.)

An AutoRifle does 3D damage. Let's say, using straight CT rules, that the character got lucky and survived the first blood rule. The defender's stats are now 477.

Average damage from an AutoRifle (an M-16) is 3, 3, 4. Using CT rules, this damage can be taken at the defender's choice.

Easily, this damage can be taken by the target. He reduces his stats to 143.

That's the problem with thinking all damage is trauma. This character just took a M-16 shot, and he's going to be healed, good as new, in 30 minutes once the medic has looked at him.

A gunshot wound, healed completely, in 30 minutes, with a bandaid.



With most weapons in CT ranging in the 2D-3D range of damage, this type of thing happens A LOT (as long as the deadly first blood rule is overcome...which is a good case for using the first blood rule).





Seeing this...that a character can easily shrug off a gunshot wound...led me to the thought that not all damage is trauma.

Obviously, in the example above, the character couldn't have suffered a gunshot wound.

He suffered something else....shrapnel from the brick in the wall as the near miss impacted against it? Fatigue as the firefight wears on? Just plain being scared when the bullets start flying?

You see, when two stats go to zero, we know the character has been shot--the damage effect backs it up. A case could be made for even one stat going to zero...but with no stats going to zero (and the frequency with which this happens in a Traveller game), then the damage has got to represent something else besides actual wound damage.

Which is why I'm flying these ideas around in this thread.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Aramis:
So for me, damage needs to represent tissue injury. I can see your direction... I just can't go that way.

I'm not really asking you to, William. Just thinking outloud.

Your traditional way of doing damage has its problems, too. (One of the things that lead me down this path to begin with.)

An AutoRifle does 3D damage. Let's say, using straight CT rules, that the character got lucky and survived the first blood rule. The defender's stats are now 477.

Average damage from an AutoRifle (an M-16) is 3, 3, 4. Using CT rules, this damage can be taken at the defender's choice.

Easily, this damage can be taken by the target. He reduces his stats to 143.

That's the problem with thinking all damage is trauma. This character just took a M-16 shot, and he's going to be healed, good as new, in 30 minutes once the medic has looked at him.

A gunshot wound, healed completely, in 30 minutes, with a bandaid.



With most weapons in CT ranging in the 2D-3D range of damage, this type of thing happens A LOT (as long as the deadly first blood rule is overcome...which is a good case for using the first blood rule).





Seeing this...that a character can easily shrug off a gunshot wound...led me to the thought that not all damage is trauma.

Obviously, in the example above, the character couldn't have suffered a gunshot wound.

He suffered something else....shrapnel from the brick in the wall as the near miss impacted against it? Fatigue as the firefight wears on? Just plain being scared when the bullets start flying?

You see, when two stats go to zero, we know the character has been shot--the damage effect backs it up. A case could be made for even one stat going to zero...but with no stats going to zero (and the frequency with which this happens in a Traveller game), then the damage has got to represent something else besides actual wound damage.

Which is why I'm flying these ideas around in this thread.

 

[Supplement Four]

BTW,

Even with the CT First Blood Rule, we've got a problem considering all damage as trauma.

Consider...

Dude picks up a .45 AutoPistol and shoots a character with it. The AutoPistol does 3D damage. The defending character has average stats with 777.

Damage rolled with the AutoPistol is average: 3, 3, 4.

We roll randomly, due to the First Blood Rule, to see which stat these 10 points of damage will be removed from...and it's the character's STR score.

So, we reduce STR to 0 and carry over damage to reduce DEX for the remaining 3 points.

The shot character now has stats of 047.

He's unconscious.

But, if a medic takes care of him, he'll be completely healed in 30 minutes.

Without medical attention, the character completely heals in 3 days.

See....I've got a problem thinking this character just got plugged with a .45 automatic and he'll be completely healed in 3 days, like he had a 3 day cold or something.

Again...

These are thoughts that have lead me down this path of thinking that damage doled out in Traveller could/should mean different types of damage, depending on the wound effect: No stats at 0 = fatigue and scratches; 1 stat at 0 = incapacitation for a time followed by rapid healing; 2 stats at 0 = an honest to goodness wound that will take the character some time to heal.

 

[Supplement Four]

BTW,

Even with the CT First Blood Rule, we've got a problem considering all damage as trauma.

Consider...

Dude picks up a .45 AutoPistol and shoots a character with it. The AutoPistol does 3D damage. The defending character has average stats with 777.

Damage rolled with the AutoPistol is average: 3, 3, 4.

We roll randomly, due to the First Blood Rule, to see which stat these 10 points of damage will be removed from...and it's the character's STR score.

So, we reduce STR to 0 and carry over damage to reduce DEX for the remaining 3 points.

The shot character now has stats of 047.

He's unconscious.

But, if a medic takes care of him, he'll be completely healed in 30 minutes.

Without medical attention, the character completely heals in 3 days.

See....I've got a problem thinking this character just got plugged with a .45 automatic and he'll be completely healed in 3 days, like he had a 3 day cold or something.

Again...

These are thoughts that have lead me down this path of thinking that damage doled out in Traveller could/should mean different types of damage, depending on the wound effect: No stats at 0 = fatigue and scratches; 1 stat at 0 = incapacitation for a time followed by rapid healing; 2 stats at 0 = an honest to goodness wound that will take the character some time to heal.