More Damage Thoughts

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
Right now, under my house rules...

Ken,

Please don't misunderstand me. I like the UGM. If I ever get the chance to run a campaign again and the players aren't too wedded to one RPG system, I'm going to give it a try. I like the fact that you and 2-4601 have kept a continually updated 'open source' document for it too.

I also very much like the fact that you've been kind enough to provide COTI with a sort of 'live action' designer's notes. We've got to see the system being built from Day One and we've got to see why you made the decisions you did. It's been fascinating watching it all come together.

What I'm worried about is that you might not know when to quit. My friends who write for a living tell me the hardest part about writing is knowing when to quit. You get lost in a maze of corrections, updates, and whatnot. I don't want UGM to end up being tinkered to death.

I was just exploring options to improve the system...brainstorming, if you will.

That's always a good idea. Sometimes the results help you with what you already have. Sometimes the results help you with another project entirely. Knowing when not to add something is the hardest thing to learn.

I guess the best analogy I can come up with is the light speed limit, and it's a poor one. As you get closer and closer to the limit, it takes more and more to increase your velocity. You get diminishing returns. The same holds true in game designs. Let me bleat on about that with another example.

A minis group I belonged to had a member who wanted to write a fast, moderately detailed, Age of Sail ruels set that emphasized command & control, seamanship, and gunnery in that order. He began quickly and we tested various rules for him at our weekly meetings.

He reached a point where the rules were 'good enough', all they needed was some polishing and a bit of streamlining. We enjoyed playing them and they emphasized what he had wanted them to at the beginning. Then things changed. He kept chasing some chimera, kept looking for the next tweak that would 'finish' the rules and make them closer to 'perfect'. Updates came further and further apart. He didn't want to make copies because they weren't 'ready' yet. Years later he still hasn't 'finished' them although they've gotten more and more baroque.

He got mired in the process and lost sight of the goal. He forgot that each additional tweak needed to be examined very closely. He forgot to be ruthless with his design, he forgot to protect it even from his own ideas.

And now he has nothing.

You already adjust to-hit rolls by DEX in UGM. GDW felt that DEX limits modeled recoil issues well enough. Might DEX limits do the same in your rule set too?


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
Right now, under my house rules...

Ken,

Please don't misunderstand me. I like the UGM. If I ever get the chance to run a campaign again and the players aren't too wedded to one RPG system, I'm going to give it a try. I like the fact that you and 2-4601 have kept a continually updated 'open source' document for it too.

I also very much like the fact that you've been kind enough to provide COTI with a sort of 'live action' designer's notes. We've got to see the system being built from Day One and we've got to see why you made the decisions you did. It's been fascinating watching it all come together.

What I'm worried about is that you might not know when to quit. My friends who write for a living tell me the hardest part about writing is knowing when to quit. You get lost in a maze of corrections, updates, and whatnot. I don't want UGM to end up being tinkered to death.

I was just exploring options to improve the system...brainstorming, if you will.

That's always a good idea. Sometimes the results help you with what you already have. Sometimes the results help you with another project entirely. Knowing when not to add something is the hardest thing to learn.

I guess the best analogy I can come up with is the light speed limit, and it's a poor one. As you get closer and closer to the limit, it takes more and more to increase your velocity. You get diminishing returns. The same holds true in game designs. Let me bleat on about that with another example.

A minis group I belonged to had a member who wanted to write a fast, moderately detailed, Age of Sail ruels set that emphasized command & control, seamanship, and gunnery in that order. He began quickly and we tested various rules for him at our weekly meetings.

He reached a point where the rules were 'good enough', all they needed was some polishing and a bit of streamlining. We enjoyed playing them and they emphasized what he had wanted them to at the beginning. Then things changed. He kept chasing some chimera, kept looking for the next tweak that would 'finish' the rules and make them closer to 'perfect'. Updates came further and further apart. He didn't want to make copies because they weren't 'ready' yet. Years later he still hasn't 'finished' them although they've gotten more and more baroque.

He got mired in the process and lost sight of the goal. He forgot that each additional tweak needed to be examined very closely. He forgot to be ruthless with his design, he forgot to protect it even from his own ideas.

And now he has nothing.

You already adjust to-hit rolls by DEX in UGM. GDW felt that DEX limits modeled recoil issues well enough. Might DEX limits do the same in your rule set too?


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
You already adjust to-hit rolls by DEX in UGM.

Just to clarify...

When using the UGM, the stat governor is ignored if the attribute is addressed (superceded) in any way from CT rules. Therefore, when the 8+ task to hit is used, under the UGM, the natural ability modifier (if your roll is equal to or less than DEX) is ignored....because DEX is already addressed with the CT rules.

The UGM natural ability modifier is only used when CT doesn't address a stat on a throw otherwise.

This makes things quicker, simpler, and avoids double attribute-address confusion.

But, your point about tinker "too much with a good thing" is heard and understood. And, you could be absolutely right.

If it ain't broke...

GDW felt that DEX limits modeled recoil issues well enough. Might DEX limits do the same in your rule set too?

Absolutely it could. Like I said....just tinkering and thinking out loud.

-S4

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
You already adjust to-hit rolls by DEX in UGM.

Just to clarify...

When using the UGM, the stat governor is ignored if the attribute is addressed (superceded) in any way from CT rules. Therefore, when the 8+ task to hit is used, under the UGM, the natural ability modifier (if your roll is equal to or less than DEX) is ignored....because DEX is already addressed with the CT rules.

The UGM natural ability modifier is only used when CT doesn't address a stat on a throw otherwise.

This makes things quicker, simpler, and avoids double attribute-address confusion.

But, your point about tinker "too much with a good thing" is heard and understood. And, you could be absolutely right.

If it ain't broke...

GDW felt that DEX limits modeled recoil issues well enough. Might DEX limits do the same in your rule set too?

Absolutely it could. Like I said....just tinkering and thinking out loud.

-S4

 

[aramis]

TNE has the right idea for recoil: a penalty to later shots, not the first one.

Anybody can hit you with the shot in the first round from an Atchison 12ga auto-shotgun. Putting a second in the same area in close succession is not nearly so easy...

 

[aramis]

TNE has the right idea for recoil: a penalty to later shots, not the first one.

Anybody can hit you with the shot in the first round from an Atchison 12ga auto-shotgun. Putting a second in the same area in close succession is not nearly so easy...

 

[mike wightman]

If you are concerned that armour as damage reduction now makes people get hit too often, the obvious answer is to raise the difficulty of the to hit roll from 8+ to 10+ or even 12+.

There is a great deal of difference between target shooting (includes hunting) and having a target returning fire.

People can get bonuses to hit by aiming for longer, but in that time someone may get lucky with a snapshot.

 

[mike wightman]

If you are concerned that armour as damage reduction now makes people get hit too often, the obvious answer is to raise the difficulty of the to hit roll from 8+ to 10+ or even 12+.

There is a great deal of difference between target shooting (includes hunting) and having a target returning fire.

People can get bonuses to hit by aiming for longer, but in that time someone may get lucky with a snapshot.