Actually they aren't actually smokeless. They are just substitutes for The Holy Black, There are Pyrodex, Triple 7, Trailboss (which is formulated for BP Cartridge guns). Generally only Pyrodex is found in pellet form. I shoot BP guns a lot which is how I know.
Musings on the humble ACR
- Thread starter nobby-w
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Actually they aren't actually smokeless. They are just substitutes for The Holy Black, There are Pyrodex, Triple 7, Trailboss (which is formulated for BP Cartridge guns). Generally only Pyrodex is found in pellet form. I shoot BP guns a lot which is how I know.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
I shoot blackpowder muzzleloaders as well, and I have used Pyrodex, which loads by bulk equivalent to black powder. I was mainly thinking of nitro powder loadings for the Martini. I would not mind having a replica trap-door Springfield in .45-70, but the trap door action is not the strongest in the world. If I want a strong action for the .45-70, I will get a Ruger single-shot. That you can reload up quite a bit.
martletsquire
SOC-12
God, I love a place where you can talk star ship interiors and the merits of firearms at the same time.
The guy who fires a Trap Door uses reduced loads. But he loves his Martini. I swear he'd marry it if he could. Too bad no one makes a reproduction version.
Oh, well, can't wait till TL10 where that additive machine in the corner can make me one.
The guy who fires a Trap Door uses reduced loads. But he loves his Martini. I swear he'd marry it if he could. Too bad no one makes a reproduction version.
Oh, well, can't wait till TL10 where that additive machine in the corner can make me one.
Why would a TL13 ACR be designed to take TL4 cartridges?
Having fired a .45-70 Colt Lever Action (modern) ... WTBleep does one need to fire one for? It's a shoulder dislocation device masquerading as a rifle. Especially in actions that don't move...
Well, it is scary intimidating for home defense, but AUGH!!! Braced, in a proper shooting jacket, with a cushioned butt-pad... the bruise from 5 shots ran a hands-width below the seated position. And that was with commercial rounds.
A friend shot it, with it seated wrong, and dislocated his shoulder. The weapon's owner fired 10 rounds, developed a bruise from the shoulder to the beltline... and sold it a week later.
I wouldn't fire a .45-70 again unless it had a recoil-driven action (Semi-auto)
Why would modern .357 be able to chamber 1880's .38 S&W? because backwards compatibility means ammo is cheaper.
Especially if looking at an imperium which has widely varying local tech. If that TL4 world can manufacture ammo to spec... perhaps it's easier to let them pay taxes in ammo...
Hunting Big Game. It is common amongst Bear Hunters.
Actually a .357 can't chamber a .38 S&W. The .38 S&W is actually larger diameter than the .357. I reload for both which is how I know.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
God, I love a place where you can talk star ship interiors and the merits of firearms at the same time.
The guy who fires a Trap Door uses reduced loads. But he loves his Martini. I swear he'd marry it if he could. Too bad no one makes a reproduction version.
Oh, well, can't wait till TL10 where that additive machine in the corner can make me one.
I imagine that a good gunsmith could turn out a replica Martini, but it might be expensive. The Martini action is very strong, and with modern materials should be able to handle quite a bit.
As for the .45-70, I am not sure why Aramis and his friends had such problems. With a 400 grain bullet at 1300 feet per second, it is on par with a 12 gauge shotgun. Just a bit more accurate at longer ranges.
On the advanced stable autofire platform front, the Russians would appear to have a working mechanism for handling recoil. We could presume a similar upgraded and reliable setup for the ACR.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AEK-971#Design_details
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AEK-971#Design_details
Yea this struck me as funny.
"Don't you live in Alaska, aramis?"
Most modern versions I see are the lever action, carbine sized, big looped hand cannon with compensators called "Guide Guns".
From a hickok45 youtube video "405 grain with a stiff load, that ought a take out a 2-liter".
martletsquire
SOC-12
Well, some .45-70s that I have seen have a narrow butt-plate (and pity the fool that has a steel plate on one.) so the round can be punishing.
It is not a cartridge for the t-shirt wearing crowd to play with.
And, Aramis, when you absolutely, positively, need that Grizzly or charging Bull Moose dead right there right now, well, that's a perfect answer for why .45-70.
Or, in the Traveller world, when you absolutely want to bag yourself a scout ship.
It is not a cartridge for the t-shirt wearing crowd to play with.
And, Aramis, when you absolutely, positively, need that Grizzly or charging Bull Moose dead right there right now, well, that's a perfect answer for why .45-70.
Or, in the Traveller world, when you absolutely want to bag yourself a scout ship.
You want punishing recoil? Try the .577 Tyrannosaur.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP5ndJu3ny0
or the .950 JDJ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROd1_S-4c6Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP5ndJu3ny0
or the .950 JDJ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROd1_S-4c6Q
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Well, some .45-70s that I have seen have a narrow butt-plate (and pity the fool that has a steel plate on one.) so the round can be punishing.
It is not a cartridge for the t-shirt wearing crowd to play with.
And, Aramis, when you absolutely, positively, need that Grizzly or charging Bull Moose dead right there right now, well, that's a perfect answer for why .45-70.
Or, in the Traveller world, when you absolutely want to bag yourself a scout ship.
On El Paso, the .45-70 is widely used for buffalo and harvesting the more ornery Longhorns, and has been used on Megaphants, but is a tad light for those.
See the following thread for more on El Paso. Right now, development is a bit slow until I can get my files off of a recalcitrant laptop.
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=37564
Well, some .45-70s that I have seen have a narrow butt-plate (and pity the fool that has a steel plate on one.) so the round can be punishing.
It is not a cartridge for the t-shirt wearing crowd to play with.
And, Aramis, when you absolutely, positively, need that Grizzly or charging Bull Moose dead right there right now, well, that's a perfect answer for why .45-70.
Or, in the Traveller world, when you absolutely want to bag yourself a scout ship.
It does NOT reliably take Kodiak Grizzlies. Nor does an M-60 nor M2-HB, unless you burst-fire into them. Guy who bought the rifle off the roommate got a bear permit... put 7 rounds down range, 5 into the bear (as evidenced by splatter), and had to report an escaped bear... (If you hit it and don't take it down, failing to report is punishable.)
If you're doing bear defense, a .40 cal pen flare is a far better round (and not controlled in Alaska), with a very low recoil.
And moose can reliably be taken with a .30-06 and good aim.
Those are great ideas, but if it's a base TL10 ACR, is that what's going to be used by an Imperial Army? Granted that your description would mean that it can be resupplied with ammunition from any TL4+ system, but what TL does the IA operate at normally? If it was much higher (13+) would it accept using an old-fashioned ACR as the primary small arms?
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
It's the gauss rifle.
It's primary ammunition is a propellantless mini slug.
It's primary ammunition is a propellantless mini slug.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
All regular Imperial Army units in the FFW are equipped to TL14 or 15.
Lower-tech slug ammunition for ACRs (manufactured down to TL8) gets an honourable mention back as far as LBB4.
I see the ACR as the AK of the traveller universe. Some folks will view it as obsolete, some folks will view it as good enough. It's a sort of lowest common denominator for a weapon capable of being used in combat against high tech forces.
With enough population and money (perhaps from about pop 6 upwards), a lower-tech world could import tooling to make their own ammunition - and offworld techs to maintain the plant if needed. Poorer worlds are more likely just to import the weapons and ammunition. Most worlds will be within a reasonable jump range of at least one world capable of manufacturing ACRs.
Locally manufactured lower tech weapons (rifles, autorifles, assault rifles etc.) may supplement imported ACRs to save money with some units being equipped with local kit and some equipped with ACRs to deal with the possibility of threats that have access to high-tech body armour.
Certainly the market for such kit is going to gravitate to a small number of standard calibres and designs. You can see this phenomenon today in the prevalance of AK and AR designs made by a large number of different manufacturers. Imperial authorities could reasonably publish specifications for a standard ACR design, although they don't necessarily have to unless they are procuring the weapons for their own forces.
Your hypothetical TL4 world is not likely to make TL 4 ammunition for an ACR but (if wealthy enough) they may import plant to make their own ammunition under licence. Alternativley they will just import enough weapons and ammunition to meet their need for high tech armaments and make up the difference with something manufactured locally.
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Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Gauss weaponry would be categorized as military.
ACRs probably wouldn't need an end user certificate, and probably would be easily available for export,useful for outfitting a mercenary unit, or rapidly equipping a nascent military or just parachuting a bunch of guns to some insurrectionists.
ACRs probably wouldn't need an end user certificate, and probably would be easily available for export,useful for outfitting a mercenary unit, or rapidly equipping a nascent military or just parachuting a bunch of guns to some insurrectionists.
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